Artificial Intelligence & Star Trek

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[00:00:40] Hi, this is John Billingsley, Dr. Phil Phlox from Star Trek Enterprise. Now I'm reading something that was written for me and I think they could have done better. So this is not me, this is them. My prescription for you is a healthy dose of the Trek Geeks podcast starring Dan Davidson and Bill. He could have done better Smith. It truly is the best medicine. Oh, come on boys. And here's how they close it. Doctors or

[00:01:12] orders. Shame, tsk, tsk. For the record, that was Dan Davidson that wrote that. That was me. Wow. Well, I know what. That's even better because now it's forever blamed on Bill. That's forever blamed on Bill. Thank you, Mr. Bakula. There you go. Wow. All right. All right. From deep inside the computer core where we are just ones and zeros, it's the biggest little live stream.

[00:02:32] This side of the Alpha Quadrant. Greetings one and all. Welcome to Trek Geeks Thursday Night Geeks with me and him. Okay. And we're back. We're back. We are back. We are so back. How you doing, pal? Hey, good. How are you doing, buddy?

[00:02:51] I am doing absolutely fantastic. I am so happy to be back sitting in this chair with you on Thursday night to talk great Star Trek stuff and say hi to all of our wonderful viewers and listeners. It's been a while, but things are good and I am looking forward to the discussion, buddy. I, of course, and Bill Smith, he, of course, you know, if you were headed to his favorite city, would it be Dan Francisco?

[00:03:23] He's Dan Davidson. Good to have you here, buddy. It's a, it's now that you've stolen kind of, you know, my, my whole shtick and kind of, you know, said hi, we don't, it's what's going on. I figured I'd double back and do it the right way because that's what professionals do.

[00:03:38] But tonight we have a really interesting topic, you know, as humanity grows and makes leaps and bounds in technology, it was probably going to happen sometime that we'd be talking about artificial intelligence, something that has always been part of Star Trek in one form or another. And tonight we'll, we'll talk about that and maybe how it impacts our own lives to some extent. Absolutely.

[00:04:01] You know, but everything from, from episodes to, to questions to, I'll tell you about a conversation I had with my car the other day during the commute, which I thought was. So, um, all right. But before we get to that, let's say hello to some folks in the chat because Burley didn't know if this was happening tonight. And quite frankly, Burley, neither did we. Neither did we. Neither did we. I didn't see the usual countdown.

[00:04:30] It started at eight. What time were you looking for it at? Jeez. Yeah. I think it was before eight. I remember seeing that message. And then she's like, well, where you been? Oh, it was at eight. Okay. Yeah. Well, where, where, where have you been? Yeah. Dan, do you want to talk about where we've been? Yeah. Where have we been? Well, first of all, I gotta, I gotta thank everybody for their patience as, as always the case, which has been more often than not lately. I think it's safe to say, Bill, wouldn't you? Yeah.

[00:04:58] Um, last week we were planning on, on having this discussion, but there were some severe thunderstorms in my area forecast. The sky was not looking good. So we decided it would be better to not worry about having us drop mid conversation. So we decided to postpone it. But prior to that, I've been having some serious mental health and physical health issues for a while now. Is that everybody who's been watching the show has known that I've, I've been talking about it.

[00:05:25] I finally was able a 99.99% sure. I've been able to finally figure out what the issue was. I've been able to make adjustments to my medications that I take. And I have been feeling absolutely spectacular for the last couple of weeks. I'm feeling probably better than I felt in maybe a year. Honestly, um, it has not subsided at all. I've got the energy. I've got the happiness. I've got the positive outlook. I've got all these things. Work has been great.

[00:05:53] Everything has been flowing the way it should be. Um, so I think I'm back to normal. I don't even shut your mouth. Um, and, uh, hopefully it will continue along, but I think I finally figured it out and, um, should not have to have to deal with it anymore. So thanks for the patience. All were they able to do anything about your face? Not if they could only make it worse because you can't get any better than this. Don't I know it, but I don't know it.

[00:06:20] If, if I need to tone it down, I'm sure I can do something. Uh, you could start with like a bag over your head. That would be helpful. Uh, well, buddy, it's glad to have you back. It's, um, I think we're all happy that you've, you've kind of found a way through this and realized what was going on. Um, I know a whole bunch of folks were worried about you. Um, present company included. And, uh, we're just happy that, uh, uh, you're on the other side of it because you, you do seem like you're your usual asshole, asshole self now. Thank you. Yes.

[00:06:48] And I will say, I want to thank, I'm not going to name them by names because there's been so many, but I want to thank the countless people that have sent me direct messages and emails and texts and all that stuff. Telling me. The podcast is second. Your health is first. Do what you need to do. It is very much appreciated. All of the love and care that I received and notes of positivity over the last couple of weeks did not go unnoticed. And I truly appreciate it from the bottom of my heart. Awesome.

[00:07:16] Well, Ross is here with us tonight because it's time. Okay. Jason is in the house. Six, one, seven. Yo, Boston. Stirling. They recently too. Right. Ryan is here for some TNG. Um, Casey Shafsky. Oh, Shaster. And right along with him, one Chris Mumfrey. He soon in Viva Las Vegas in 44 days, 45. 39.

[00:07:46] Oh, whoa. Okay. That's not, that's too soon. I got too much to do. 39 days for me, 40 for you. That's right. Um, Burley's still here. Casey and Mumfrey are having their own little conversation. Yeah. Uh, Dan, the chin hairs are looking dope, bro. Thanks man. All white. There's no brown left in this thing anymore. That's a nice way to say, um, he looks old. Um, Wyatt is in the house. Wyatt, good to have you here. Starfleet.

[00:08:16] So hail in traffic. Listening does not dedication. I love it. Chris Harris is here. Chris. Great to have you on board. Um, Casey Shafsky. I'm still looking for some natural intelligence on this world. You ain't going to find it here. Not here. That's for sure. Um, and Dan Ross echoes, I think what a lot of us are saying, your health, both physical and mental are, and should always be priority. It's taken me way longer than it should to realize that. Glad you're getting better.

[00:08:44] And Ross, we hope you're feeling better too. Absolutely. Um, you know, I can, I can tell you personally, because I've been on antidepressants now for the last three years and they've definitely been affected by my GLP one and the heat. Heat can affect your antidepressants as Ross can attest to. It's been, um, a little warm here in North Carolina. Uh, the best of the Carolinas I might add, uh, cause we're the one on top.

[00:09:10] Hey, um, but, uh, but, but a good reminder to everybody to take care and, um, you know, make sure that you're taking care of yourselves. So, um, so Dan, with that, let's find out what you drinking, buddy. Oh, well, I'm happy to share. It's summer now. Summer started this past Sunday. I've heard. Yep. And, um, I have a summer drink that I've had for several years and I finally broke it out. It's simple. It's basically just a vodka lemonade.

[00:09:39] It's blueberry, uh, Stoli vodka with pink lemonade, sugar-free and blueberries. That's all it is. It's very refreshing and I love it. What do you got? Vodka lemonade. Mine is a buzz box though. That's awesome. That's all right. Cheers. Everybody, if you're having something to drink, please enjoy. If not, please, please also enjoy. Yeah. We'll pretend Garcia's here. Right. That's, that's pretty funny. We did not plan that at all. We didn't plan that at all. That's amazing. Yeah.

[00:10:08] Well, Dan, before we get started on artificial intelligence tonight, late last week, we made an announcement that we have four shows joining Trek geeks and our family and that we are really excited about. They're all preexisting shows. Um, you know, we decided that, um, you know, uh, one of the things we look for is passion in podcasting. Yeah. And helping to amplify some of those voices. And we think we found a, uh, a foursome of podcasters that we think are going to fill that bill for a lot of people.

[00:10:37] We're excited to have, um, we've got a little video to show of them all introducing themselves. So we're going to put that on the screen. We're going to be back in just a couple of minutes, but please meet the new podcasts of tricky. Hey guys, it's pastor Brian from the Brian Donahue podcast, and I am thrilled and honored to be a part of the Trek geeks podcast network, but I'm excited to bring faith and fandom

[00:11:04] together with purpose to teach people how to boldly go into the galaxy with more kindness, with more love, with more compassion, living for more than just themselves. I'm a pastor and I love to engage people with their faith, but I'm also a huge Trekkie and I love talking about Star Trek and how those things can actually intersect together. There's definitely some liminal spaces in there, but that's okay.

[00:11:31] Growing as a human being is all about being uncomfortable and willing to go on that journey with others. So let's do that together, shall we? I have special guests on the show each week to talk about their favorite Star Trek episode of all time. We talk a lot about Star Trek. We talk a lot about our faith. It's a lot of fun in whether you're a person of faith or not. You're going to love the Brian Donahue podcast right here on the Trek Geeks podcast network.

[00:12:07] There's like 60 years of Star Trek to talk about spanning generations of storytelling. Each series has its own identity, its own ideas, and its own way of challenging the audience. We definitely don't always agree on everything on this podcast. But we can all agree Star Trek is super cool. I'm Ian Buckley. My favorite series is Deep Space Nine and I love taking long walks on the holodeck. I'm Craig McKenzie. My favorite series is The Next Generation, although I do acknowledge that Deep Space Nine is a better series.

[00:12:36] My name is Ashley. My favorite series is Voyager and also Discovery. And honestly, I haven't met a Star Trek I haven't liked. My name is Mike Slamer and my favorite series is Star Trek The Original Series, which is hard for me to put up against Star Trek Voyager because they are both amazing in their own way. We started We Are Starfleet all the way back in 2020 and our podcast has been steadily growing since then. We are incredibly excited to announce that we are officially joining the Trek Geeks Network.

[00:13:04] We focus on episodic reviews and breakdowns of the episodes as they air, as well as looking back at the franchise and how all of the episodes are from across the different shows and the movies, how they stack up today. We're delighted to be expanding our podcast, diving deeper into the stories and themes from across the franchise. Look for us on the Trek Geeks Network or wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe to We Are Starfleet, the podcast, and find a listing of over 100 aired episodes

[00:13:31] at www.wearestarfleetpod.com. Hey guys, my name is Jessie and I am host of the Crusher Convo podcast where I deep dive all of Star Trek through the eyes of Dr. Beverly Crusher. I am very excited to be joining the Trek Geeks family and a little bit about me. I'm on my fourth season right now. I'm mostly on YouTube, but you could also hear the audio versions of my podcast over wherever

[00:14:01] you love to listen to your podcast. I like to interact with the fans over on social media and just enjoy my time with everybody and do fun little clips called Bev Talks and What Would Beverly Do? So yeah, if you love Beverly Crusher and the Crusher boys, head over to my podcast and I'm super excited again to be joining the Trek Geeks team. Good long and prosper. Hey, Trek Geeks community. Thank you for welcoming us.

[00:14:30] My name is Charlie Carden. I am joined by my partner, Peter Stein. We are the Code 47 podcast in the Secret Friends Unite podcast network. I'm going to give you the short version of how we became Trekkers. Peter will do the same and then I'll circle back. I'll tell you about kind of our show. So I am a heritage Star Trek fan going back to before being born. Both of my parents in the 1960s attended Central Michigan University where they watched Star Trek in the dorms.

[00:14:58] I discovered Star Trek probably at age six. The first episode I ever saw at WKBD, TV50 in Detroit, my hometown, was where no man has gone before. So I started at the start even that young. But it wasn't until Star Trek 4 in 1986 that I really became a fan. TNG came out the next year and then I became a mega fan. We, Peter and I, have been doing this show together for a few years. But I'll circle back to that once Peter has time to talk about his stuff.

[00:15:29] Hey, I'm Peter. I'm the other co-host. And I've been around Star Trek since again before I was born. But I was a bit younger. I came out during TNG. So been a massive Trek fan. I've written papers about it. So it's like I like to integrate philosophy in Star Trek and get into the nitty gritty and sometimes have opinions that get a little controversial. A little spicy.

[00:15:53] To tell you shortly about podcasting, I started podcasting almost 14 years ago with my college roommate who has since moved on to other projects. Started the Star Trek show in the fall of 2020. Peter joined me in 2021 after rotation of hosts kind of rotated out. And we have been talking. Our big focus is talking about episodes. And I'm super psyched to tell you that we've covered every episode of the show and every movie in that time. We're continuing to proliferate and change that around. We're super happy.

[00:16:21] I'm running out of time to be part of Trek Geeks. Please find us at secretfriendsunite.com. And on your Trek Geeks feed, I've been Charlie. And this is Peter. And bye-bye. So, you know, we're super excited to have Ian and Craig and Ashley and Mike and Jesse and Charlie and Peter bringing their shows to the network. And of course, Brian has already been a part of Trek Geeks as part of the big sci-fi podcast. And also with his narrative fiction podcast, Planet Zero.

[00:16:49] So, we're super excited to have them join the team. And as Jim said, what a variety. And that really was part of what we were looking for. We wanted different points of view. We wanted different focuses. You know, I am not. I mean, I'm an atheist. But I still think that Brian's podcast is fantastic. And he does a great job with it. And I think it's one that fans are really going to love.

[00:17:18] So, and I'm sure that we will probably make the rounds through all of those at some point. Absolutely. Yeah. It really is amazing. And you just said it. It's something that we strive to do here when we bring new shows onto the network. Is we want to have that variety of topics, of opinion, everything. Because we've talked about no one's opinion is wrong.

[00:17:43] So, the more opinions that we get about Star Trek and how people feel about it, I think it's better for everybody to share those experiences. So, I can't wait. I'm really looking forward to checking out all of these podcasts now that they're on Trek. Because I wouldn't have listened to them before. I'm just kidding. You wouldn't know where to find them. I wouldn't know where to find them. What's that button do? No, but it's great to have them. I'm very excited about it. Those videos were awesome. Every one of them. I had seen one of them before.

[00:18:12] I had not seen the other three. So, I'm stoked. I'm very excited. Can't be happier about it. And I can't wait to see all these people. Hopefully, they'll all be in Vegas so we can have kind of like a little podcast family get-together. But, yeah, pretty cool. Some of them will be. And I've got a special reveal for later on about Vegas with regard to one of those podcasters. So, we're a little bit of something different for the party. But we're going to set the table. We're going to come right back and talk about AI in Star Trek.

[00:18:39] So, don't go anywhere. Dan, artificial intelligence. Something that you would benefit from greatly because your own intelligence is... Oh, your natural intelligence really isn't all that great.

[00:19:08] Packers are geniuses compared to me. Oh, my gosh. Tell me about it. You know, I think that we're at a precipice as a people, as a race of humans. I think that our reach is kind of exceeding our grasp at this point. And that's just me. You know, as AI morphs and evolves, you know, people rightly have the concerns that, you know, is this going to wind up with Arnold Schwarzenegger chasing people through the streets of Los Angeles with weapons?

[00:19:39] But AI is here and there's no getting around it. Yeah, it really is. It really is kind of interesting that you suggested this topic when you did because my company that I work for, I've worked for about a year and a half now, this year has really stepped on the AI acceleration pedal. We are using AI a lot more in terms of every aspect of what we do.

[00:20:08] Um, and as a support representative, which is what I do, I'm a tech support engineer. We are tasked with using AI as much as possible in our, in our job now. And I have not been one to want to utilize AI in the past. I'm a little skeptic. I was, I've been a little skeptical of it. It's new. It's not always accurate. Um, stuff like that. But I got to tell you over the course of the last six months, I have used it.

[00:20:37] More and more. And so now I use it with everything that I do in my job daily. I use it outside of work daily. And it really has become kind of an essential part of my day-to-day life work and non-work to ask questions and get information and do stuff. I know that you're doing projects with AI also. So it's becoming more and more, um, ingrained into our society.

[00:21:07] Not sure if that's a good or bad thing yet. Previously, I would have said it's bad. Now I'm not saying that as much, but it's still a, it's still, it's still out to decide by the voters. I guess you could say. No, I think you're right. I mean, when I was going through my job search, I was routinely using AI to try to give me a leg up. I had to, because that's what everybody else is doing. You know, there's a, a large portion of Star Trek fandom that is very anti AI.

[00:21:34] And I am in some ways, very anti AI. I don't like AI slop. I can't stand these videos. Oh yeah. Yeah. Garbage. I can't stand taking work away from really good artists to create something that's AI and not really art. Yeah. But by the same token, AI is a tool much like the internet is a tool or a SQL database is a tool or anything along those lines.

[00:22:00] Technology is advancing and I have to use it in my job every day. I'm, I'm not afforded with a choice either with my last job or with this one, you know, and some people say AI is coming for your jobs. And I don't think that's necessarily true. I do think that AI is coming to force you to become more efficient. If you're not willing to get on board that efficiency train, I think that's when it costs you your job.

[00:22:30] Yeah. And, and I will, let me, let me clarify some of the things I said. I love what I've been doing with AI in my work aspect, because like you said, the, the fake, like one thing that, as you know, I'm a big movie trailer person. I love seeing the new movie trailers. I cannot stand the fact that I go into YouTube to look up new trailers and 99% of them are AI generated crap. That is not real. That aspect of AI is bullshit.

[00:22:56] And I hope it goes away or it is reined in or something. But what I'm using AI for specifically for work is ways to help me troubleshoot stuff. I'll throw a bunch of files into AI and say, diagnosis issue. Here's what's happening. Here's what they're saying is happening. Here's what should be happening. And it'll give me some good breakdowns of things to do, troubleshooting steps, things to check.

[00:23:18] And that is very, very helpful because I can put 20 documents, 20 screenshots in my AI search, and it'll have information like this. Whereas if I had to do it myself, it'll take hours. That is a true benefit of what AI can do. There are several things of AI that are problematic. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I think for what I'm doing work-wise, at least, and when I was dealing with my health

[00:23:44] issue, my wife was very big into searching for AI, searching, using AI, different things to try to come up with what could be the problem. And together, we were able to figure it out. So there are very many positive aspects. But yeah, there's a lot of garbage out there. That's just a pain in the butt to look at. Steve brings up a great point. It's insane, guys. I wrote an entire bash script with AI that works with more functionality than I could have ever known to do myself. And that is a perfect example.

[00:24:11] When I was going through my job interviews, I wrote an entire suite of monitors using Playwright through AI. Now, I know I use Playwright. I mean, I've had to do it before because monitoring and observability was my gig before. To see that it could do it in seconds was something that would take me literal hours for this as a part of a project for a job interview. It really was kind of eye-opening. To the point where, I'm only going to mention this briefly because this is not an advertisement

[00:24:40] by any means, I decided to use AI to start coding my own social media management platform for Podia. Yep. Yep. And this is my project. It's Pibble. Let's see if I actually have a login live because it's still in a test. It's in a bed. And what it does is it looks for new episodes of a podcast. Yeah, I haven't created a user here.

[00:25:07] It looks for new episodes of a podcast and then automatically creates social media posts because it turns into a second job for me. Yeah. It really is amazing the capabilities that AI has if it's used correctly. Perfect example. A few months ago, we had a thing at my work. We had an AI hackathon, it was called. So I was paired with a coworker and we had to come up with a project using AI.

[00:25:35] I had never used AI to this capacity whatsoever. Using AI only. I was able to do everything from creating GitHub repositories to actually having AI write the entire code for me. We created a code, an application for my tech support team that we are going to launch and is going to be live for our users to use. I've never written a lot of code in my life. And this thing did it all for us. It really is. It really can be helpful when used the right ways.

[00:26:05] And as we have seen in both social media, real life, and in Star Trek, AI can sometimes be bad too. Well, let me pop quiz you here. Okay. So I referenced earlier, I had a conversation with my car, Google Gemini, about AI while I was stuck in traffic in Raleigh a couple of weeks ago. So in your estimation, Dan, is the enterprise computer, either original or D, is it AI? What do you think?

[00:26:36] I don't, I would not call the computer from the enterprise as AI. Google agrees with you. Yeah. Google says, you know, the enterprise computer functions more like a highly advanced database. You ask it for a location, it retrieves it instantly. You know, you, uh, that's more about speed and data processing than true sentience. It says, but you know, when it performs complex simulations or anticipates a crew members need,

[00:27:03] like in the next generation, like say Moriarty, then you drift into artificial intelligence. You drift into something the computer wasn't originally designed to do. And I think that that's really interesting. We don't get a Starfleet computer that has actual artificial intelligence until later in Star Trek discovery. Yeah, exactly. Yep. Yep. Yep. And we've seen, we've seen some things of it, um, in later iterations of Star Trek.

[00:27:31] I would say that, and I don't know if we're, it's just, I don't want to steal your thunder, so I'm not going to say. No, go ahead. Say whatever you want. Lower decks. Um, um, what's the name of the computer that, uh. Oh, Adjimus. Yeah. That's, he's definitely AI in my mind. Um, but so we have seen, um, references to bad AI, um, in modern Trek more so than we ever have. And I think in legacy, I think you're right. But then again, let's look at it this way.

[00:27:59] AI wasn't around back then when you think about it. So it was kind of hard to really write stories. I mean, not AI as we define it today. AI back then when, you know, with the TOS episodes that I'm going to bring up. Yeah. Related, but it wasn't called AI back then. Yeah. Jim says the enterprise computer was an AI based on how the script was written, but it really wasn't like, you know, it really was just an org as an organizational database. It had a voice. Yes.

[00:28:28] But it didn't necessarily have sentience. It didn't have, it didn't evolve. It didn't have a personality. One could argue the exocomps were an AI more so than the enterprise computer was. Yeah. Um, or the, the nanites that, uh, that infest the ship when Wesley does something dumb. Yeah. Um, badgie is an AI to some extent. Um, so then I asked, you know, I asked Gemini, I said, well, you know, what about guardrails? Right.

[00:28:57] I mean, because we don't want Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, as a Terminator running down the streets of LA and they, it told me about something real world called neuro symbolic AI. Uh, Google said it sounds like a mouthful, but it's basically the marriage of the two types of computing. We discussed essentially AI, you know, evolving computing and. Database. Yeah. Okay. It's got guardrails. The symbolic part is like the classic computer.

[00:29:25] It follows rigid logic, math, and rules that never change by combining them. We get systems that can think with the creativity of a person, but the factual accuracy of a calculator. I think that's kind of where, um, platforms like Claude or GPT or some of the other ones perplexity, um, are headed. I don't know if Google's headed that way. Grok certainly is not headed that way.

[00:29:49] Um, but you know, uh, that I, I take that for what it's worth. The fact that there is a guardrail out there, um, in neuro symbolic makes AI theoretically much safer. However, you have to deal with the environmental aspect, um, AI data centers. And those really are a thing. They aren't just cloud data centers. Um, use a ton of resources, um, and a ton of water to cool things.

[00:30:17] So, you know, that's why I said earlier, and I think, I wonder if our reach is really exceeding our grasp, you know, just because you can do a thing. Yeah. Doesn't necessarily follow that. You should do a thing, but the genie has been on court. Do you think, do you think that what we're seeing right now, and this just popped into my head as you said this, so I don't have any data to back it up. Do you think what we're seeing right now with the AI explosion is similar to the tech bubble

[00:30:47] from the early two thousands where everybody wanted to be part of it. And then it kind of blew up and fell apart. Do you think that we're, that's something that we could see here, or do you think it is going to continue to evolve and be part of our everyday life from here on out? I think it will evolve. I think it has to. I think as company realized that AI is not the money saver that they thought it was, I think that they'll realize that, you know, they have to do some things with people.

[00:31:17] They have to reign it in, you know, that neurosymbolic AI, you know, is great, but at the end of the day, somebody has to operate it. Somebody has to, you know, not really prompt it. I guess loops are the big thing now with Claude. Claude is kind of like my AI platform of preference because I think it gives better answers. Um, it's what I built all of my Pibble platform with.

[00:31:39] Um, and again, I'm not a coder, so it's doing all the coding for me, but you know, it's, it's more of really just a, a skeleton with a fence around it to some extent. It does learn, it does grow, but still there's, there's guardrails, you know, I have. Go ahead. I was just going to say, I have not had the opportunity to use Claude at all in any, in any way, shape or form. I've been using chat GPT at work. I've been using rovo work. I've been using Gemini.

[00:32:07] Um, uh, rovo had been my go-to, but lately chat GPT with the licensing that we have is really able to open up a lot of things, connect to a lot of things in the backend of my work. So can really get a lot of, a lot of functionality out of just that one location. Um, but, and it really is amazing to think of the potential that AI has to help humanity.

[00:32:33] But at the same time, you've got that scary aspect of if there's ever a cyberdive assistance company that is created in this world, I'm done. Bye. Cause we know what's going to happen. Um, but let's take it back to Star Trek though for a second, right? Because on some level, this is the V'ger dilemma. We go from how do I do this task to why am I doing this task? Well, what point does it develop a curiosity or a sense of purpose?

[00:33:02] Is this all that I am? Is there nothing more? You know, at one point, does it, you know, take a look at these obstacles to its evolution and say, I can get around that. You know, are we smart enough to avoid that? Well, we know the moment it becomes sentient or will it be so good at mimicking us that we won't be able to tell the difference. Yeah. And I think that's really the fascinating question. And the scary question. For sure. Yeah, no, I agree.

[00:33:32] Yeah. Um, and I think that's what makes something like an Ultron or a V'ger or Nomad, you know, um, ultimately scary and unsettling because, um, at some point they're helpful until they're not kind of like you. Right. Okay. And that was one of my big ones. I'll, I'll say right now, that was one of my big episodes that I pulled from the list for, for AI stuff is the changeling.

[00:33:56] I mean, I think Nomad is a fantastic example of AI in the 1960s of what it could become. Because when you think about, when you think about that episode with Nomad, Nomad is kind of like the small version of V'ger. He's going back to the creator and deciding what he's going to, you know, he wants to bring back all of his information and, and stuff like that.

[00:34:16] So I do, I do appreciate that aspect of what, um, the, uh, Nomad was able to bring to, uh, to the original series. And then it continued to evolve in the motion picture. And then of course all the other series as well. You know, and I think that Nomad is, is really interesting because it was elevated by something else. It didn't necessarily attain that sentience on its own.

[00:34:41] Um, you know, something repaired it, something fixed it, something helped it along its way. Obviously, uh, a higher power in the technological sense, which I think is, is interesting. Um, you know, but it's kind of the ultimate catch 22, you know, do we, do we know when it's done these things and when it's done these things, is it too late? Can we get it back? Can we get the genie back in the bottle? Right. Right. At some point, does it become resentful?

[00:35:11] Um, exactly. Yep. Kind of like you, um, again, are we sure you're not an Android? Yeah. Okay. That's what I want to pull out. Cause you do twice in like the last two minutes now. And I do see it coming. Thank you very much. I know Jesse. He doesn't, he doesn't. He wants the world to think he sees it coming and lets it happen so that he doesn't look as dumb. Here we go again. Dan, if, if you were a computer that was evolving into AI, you'd be like that Texas instrument.

[00:35:41] Speak and spell that only spoke like three words. I mean, I love you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You would have been like the version 0.5 of Stephen Hawking's computer. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I can agree with that. I'm good with it. That's okay. Yeah. So, so let's do this.

[00:36:04] We're going to, we're going to take a quick fansets break and then we're going to come back and we're going to talk about some of those episodes you have on your list and maybe some other stuff. Um, but I, I think there's a lot to chew on here with AI. Um, I'm curious as to, to how some folks, you know, aside from Steve and some others are using AI, um, or how it's, it's improving or not in your given situation. So, um, feel free to share those in the, in the chat.

[00:36:31] I'm just curious, but, uh, we are going to, uh, take a quick break and then come right back. Stay right there. Dan, of course it's fansets time. And we want to thank them for being the presenting sponsor of, of all of the shows on truck geeks, including our four brand new shows.

[00:36:58] Um, which are, you'll see added to, uh, the feed very soon. They're already on the truck geeks website, but, um, 10 years of fansets, buddy. They've been doing it for a full decade, tons and tons and tons of pins. And well, we just love those guys to death. Yeah, we really do. We're going to see them in 39 slash 40 days. Uh, it's another week. It's another moment to thank the best team in the business. As we talk about all the time, they have over 500 officially licensed pins, new stuff coming out every month.

[00:37:27] We've been away and they've been really busy, dude. Check them all out right now at fansets.com. We're going to start first with the latest and amazing star Trek Delta line. And it's from star Trek beyond and it's the operations Delta. And as with all of their deltas, it is available in both pin and magnet form. And next up we have the latest from the XL ships line. And I love this one. It is captain protons spaceship.

[00:37:55] I can't imagine there's a whole lot of technical information in that one to share, but it looks fantastic. You can get it right now over at fansets.com. Also available right now from star fleet Academy. It's the series logo pin, which looks fantastic. Uh, I, I think I have that on order. I don't even remember cause I didn't order just the other day. Um, also, uh, uh, with regards to star fleet Academy, we have the snazzy little war college cadet badge.

[00:38:21] And just like the previously mentioned deltas, this one is also available in pin and magnet form. And buddy, I gotta say. As we celebrate pride month during June, I am so proud and happy and honored about this one. It is the star fleet Academy diversity pin. And this one might be one of my favorites that they have every done ever done. Not only does it look amazing, but it holds a very, very special meaning to me. And I'm sure a lot of star Trek fans as well.

[00:38:50] All of these beauties as well as hundreds and hundreds of other pins, not just star Trek, by the way, are available right now over at fansets.com. We're going to talk about fan geeks party 2026 really quickly before we jump to the other copy. And of course there are still tickets available, Dan, um, a good amount have been sold already. There are still some left. Um, it's going to be a huge party, Dan, 10 years of fansets.

[00:39:18] And by the way, Ashley from the, we are star fleet podcast. Yes. We'll be running trivia for us at the party. She does trivia in her normal everyday life. It's her job. That's awesome. She said, Hey, would you want me to do trivia? I said, hell yes. I get to sit and relax. So DJ live long and party is going to be with us in, uh, in Vegas. Uh, we're still going to do the, the ticket pulls and the door prize.

[00:39:46] You can get a niner in there if you want to, but Friday, August 7th, 7 PM player one video game bar in Las Vegas. Get your tickets at fan geeks, party.eventbrite.com. Um, and, um, it's, it's the cheapest night you will have in Vegas. Uh, tickets, uh, with fees and taxes are $17. Um, and all that money goes straight to the venue. None of that goes to fansets or truck geeks that all go straight to the venue.

[00:40:16] You get two drink tickets with that. Plus they'll have some snacks on hand. And did I mention a dizzying array of video games that are all free to play? Dan dizzying, dizzying array. There's lots of them. We went last time we live stream, we went through like their site and there's like so many. I, I don't know. I'm not even going to be able, I'm not going to be able to play them all, but I have a lot that I do want to play. You're going to be working. Shut up. No, no. We got somebody doing trivia now. I'm going to be playing games. Oh, you can play games after the party because, uh, that's true. I think they're open to like 2am maybe.

[00:40:46] Yep. And you know, you're absolutely right. It is going to be the cheapest thing you're going to spend money on in Vegas, but the most fun that you're going to have in Vegas probably. So keep that in mind as well. I mean, think about this. If you get a drink, a specialty drink or a martini in Vegas, you're easily paying 18 to $20 for that drink for 17 bucks. You can get in, get two drink tickets for one of their dizzying array of beers.

[00:41:12] Cause you'll be dizzy after you have some of those or cocktails or bourbons and, um, and play video games and win prizes. I mean, it's, it's going to be a great night in Vegas for the return of fan geeks party and fans. That's 10th anniversary, buddy. All those giveaways that they give, but you also get your absolutely necessity of a commemorative pin. Again, we're going to have that as you can see on screen. That's a great one. I mean, talk about classic arcade style. That is just beautiful.

[00:41:40] It makes me want, makes me hope that your face is on that screen that I can just like fire my missiles right into like as much as possible. This all of a sudden sounded dirty. So, you know, once you get all these pins, put them in your cart, fans, that's, um, and then at checkout, Dan, we want everyone to enter the special discount code word Trek geeks for 10% off that entire order. Beautiful. Everything. It's not just Star Trek ins. You could get some of their other stuff.

[00:42:07] Some of the other properties they do were accessories or even gift certificates. Put them in your cart. 10% Trek geeks, all caps, no spaces. And of course, Dan, when you spend more than $30 on fansets.com, you know what you get? What do you get? Bill free damn shipping. Free Dan shipping. Yes. We're going to give you something. I love it.

[00:42:34] Fansets, our pins have character and we thank our friends at fansets for being the presenting sponsor of all these hair shows on the Trek geek podcast network. Hi, where the hell did you go? Sorry. I, while it was a break, I had to stand up. I have a swarm of some kind of bugs flying outside this window and this window, and I'm not sure what they are.

[00:43:04] I don't know if they're bees or something else. I'm just trying to figure it out. There's like 30 of them on this window, like 20 of them flying around over here. It's crazy. Are they going to eat you? No. Oh, that's too bad. That's too bad. Oh, sting would be good. Maybe like right on your face. Wow. Well, you did talk about toning this down a little bit. So, cause you can't always look this awesome. Is that what it is? Well, Dan, let's talk about AI as it pertains to Star Trek.

[00:43:31] You have pulled an array of episodes that I'll touch on AI. And I'm curious as to which ones kind of led the way for you that you thought of first. Yeah. You've already mentioned, um, the changeling. Yeah, I did. Um, I thought that when I was going through and looking at different episodes, I kind of was, um, yeah. Anime of anime and Amityville. Thank you. I knew I would get it eventually.

[00:43:57] Um, I was kind of thinking that TOS was the one that kind of stuck with me more than the other shows. Um, and it's funny that I say that because we talked about how AI wasn't really the thing back then as we understand it now, but a lot of the episodes that dealt with AI ish things, the changeling is a perfect example. The Apple was another one. I think that was a computer that evolved and made decisions based on what was going

[00:44:26] on at the time. So I would definitely consider that one as an AI entity, um, and kind of a scary one. One of the bad ones, I think not so, not so, I think a lot of the ones in TOS were more bad than good when we, when we think about it. Um, and the other one that really stands out to me and is one of my favorites is, is the return of the Archons. I was just going to say Landru. I really feel that Landru is the epitome of what AI evolution is.

[00:44:55] Um, I love the episode for that aspect alone. Um, and as AI becomes more and more important and prevalent and part of our everyday life, episodes like this can really make you start thinking. You know, it's interesting because all of those episodes involve a computer that has taken over a society. And it makes me wonder where did they all lose their way?

[00:45:21] Where did they all decide to abandon their autonomy as thinking creatures and, you know, let the computers just have at it. I mean, um, for the world is hollow and I've touched the sky. It's another similar episode. Another one. Yep. You know, where Kirk gets to, to destroy a computer, to bring a civilization back to where they ought to be. Um, and as Jim says, AI is no match for the logic of James T.

[00:45:48] Kirk, at least, especially when he goes on a soliloquy, um, you know, uh, and there's others. I mean, you could even say that Spock's brain. Yeah. That was on my list. Oh, really? It's a little bit, it's a little bit down on the list because it can't, it's, it's AI, but is it really the other one? And we'll get back to Spock's brain in a second, but the other one that I was kind of like, Oh, back and forth on is the ultimate computer. I mean, the, the title of it.

[00:46:16] So it makes you think computer, it's just a computer, but no, it evolves. It makes decisions based on what's going on in real time and, and makes those changes as needed. Um, so I thought that that was another, another, uh, strong candidate, uh, from TOS. I have to agree with you. I mean, there's TOS has enough of its, you know, God-like computer. It's got God-like beings. It's got God-like computers. It's got, uh, you name it. Um, TNG doesn't do as much of that.

[00:46:45] There are some times where I think that you could make an argument that the Borg is an artificial intelligence of sorts because they're technological pieces. Yes, they're, they're based in biology, but they have a unified brain as it were that learns and adapts and overcomes. So you could make the argument that in a sense, they are a form of artificial intelligence.

[00:47:12] The counter argument that I would make to that, because I kind of agree with that, but on the other side, I can see other people's opinions of because of that biological human part of them. That is the part that makes, that allows them to adapt. They may be one hive mind, but I think that even though there's no individuality associated with the Borg, I think the fact that there is biological parts to the collective, that kind

[00:47:41] of makes it less AI, AI ish than pure computer driven stuff. Ryan brings up a great point. Isn't data AI? He absolutely is kind of self-contained. Um, but he also has guardrails. So he's also kind of like that, that, um, that form of AI I was talking about before the neuro, whatever it was, the name I already forgot. Cause I'm not looking at a screen that has it on there. Technobabble. Yeah. Technobabble.

[00:48:08] Um, I think that data can evolve, but data also is a slave to his programming on some sorts because he, there are some things he just can't violate. Um, whereas I think in the other instances of AI, it can and easily. Um, I think the, the deeper we go into Berman Trek for want of a better word, the less likely we are to have God-like computers, um, or computers that have to be out thought. Yeah.

[00:48:37] And, uh, I think that's a version of the storytelling, but I don't think you get a bigger, you know, AI centric story than Star Trek, the motion picture, quite frankly. Oh, absolutely. Which is, I think one of the reasons why I love what you picked for the background for this, for this, uh, episode that we're discussing tonight, it is the perfect example. It is the changeling exponentially about what we're talking about with what TOS does and then what it did with the motion picture.

[00:49:04] It is, it is the perfect example of AI is run amok the right way to put it or just completing its evolution. I mean, it could be, you could look at it either way, actually, I think. So I guess, is that in the eye of the beholder? Um, you know, whereas V'ger thinks it's just attempting to complete its mission and contact the creator in addition to having like nomad being fixed along the way. Um, you know, is it, is that all that there is? Is there nothing more? Right.

[00:49:34] Which is probably my favorite quote from Star Trek, the motion picture, you know, does it, has it evolved because of the direct intervention or has it just evolved? Um, and at some point, you know, if the enterprise, you know, had not stopped and all biological life had been eradicated, um, it would have been our own fault to some extent. It's kind of, it's kind of really the ultimate, um, catch 22 isn't the right phrase. It is though. It is.

[00:50:04] Oh, is it? Is that the right? Is that the right phrasing? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We created this and then it's our own undoing. It's our own fault. Yeah. Which is what, which is, I mean, how many movies do we deal with that have that same premise? I think the other aspect of it is the dumbing down of, of humanity. You know, there's the movie idiocracy that people like to talk about where humanity just gets dumb, man, because life, we've got so much, so much convenience at our fingertips and, you know, we just, we, we become lazy and dumb.

[00:50:34] And I think that on some level AI allows for that and good or bad. I mean, you could make your argument, you know, any way it gives some people a leg up. I, we know somebody who is trying to put together a podcast using an AI voice because of various limitations they have in communication. So, which is a use case I never thought of. Yeah.

[00:50:57] It's not really AI generated content because it's content generated by a person, but the voice is generated by AI. Yeah. You know, this allows perhaps some, some functionality and some, some adapting into society, perhaps for people without a voice, people who can't speak. You know, maybe, maybe there's an application, you know, in medicine for deaf people.

[00:51:26] I know Brad was talking about, uh, earlier before the, uh, the fansets break. I got to find it real quick. Uh, here it is. Two years ago, my MRI was delayed by shortages of radiology. This year it was 24 hours. So it's used as an assistant and verified by a radiologist. Yeah. You know, are there other advancements we'll make, you know, despite AI and because of AI. Does that make sense? Yeah. That's where the catch 22 kind of comes into play. I think also you brought something up a second ago that really made me think of something.

[00:51:55] And it was just from earlier today, my wife and I went out to get dinner to bring home, uh, out on the spider. And when we were driving, you talked about how everything is right there at our fingertips and it's made us lazy driving by a park on the bike. And I look over and there is a guy, a father at the playground, pushing his kid on the swing. So great thing to do parent enjoying time with their child.

[00:52:22] The only problem was he was doing it with one hand and he was like this with the other hand, looking at his phone, being doing what you just said stuff is at our fingertips constantly. And it, it affects how we do things on a daily basis. And I think that that is problematic looking at what AI potentials are and how it can overtake

[00:52:48] our desire to not be lazy and become lazy. I think that's a, that's a genuine fear, um, of what AI can do. I think we all hope the Star Trek technology that would become real would be very different. Yeah. Quite frankly, you know, instead we get, uh, you know, sentient computers and I have a new theory about the pack leads. You know, we joked about them earlier, but, um, I I'm starting to think that as I see some

[00:53:14] people using AI and just not thinking, you know, through things and just accepting the results they got, are the pack leads idiots because they had too much of a reliance on a technology like that. I mean, they have ships, you know, they, they, they can, you know, if you watch lower decks, you, they can, you know, certainly, uh, plan things. They're not completely stupid, but how's their reliance on technology made them dumb? Inferior?

[00:53:42] I 100% think that that is the case because when we see the pack leads take away, take away the starships and the Star Trek aspect for a second. Let's just look at the pack leads. They're not smart. No, they have the technology around them. They have the ships, they have the warp drive. They have the things that they're capable of doing, especially we see in lower decks. That means that they have the ability to do this stuff.

[00:54:08] And I think because they allow their technology to do everything there and their AI may have evolved like we've been talking about, that's why I think that they are that dangerous. They're morons, but they're dangerous. I think because of the technology that they have. Ryan brings up an alternate point. He says, did it make them dumb or were they already dumb and AI let them get to space? I suppose it could go either way, but I would almost think that they would have screwed that

[00:54:36] up somehow or maybe they damaged the AI. So once they got into space, they didn't know what else to do. I'd like to believe at some point the pack leads were not always mentally deficient, quite frankly, because that's how they seem. Yeah, there you go. Ross agrees with you, my friend. You know, and I think that's my own head cannon, honestly, with regard to that. I don't know if it's true, but I can see a path forward for that absolutely being true.

[00:55:03] So as we sort of are in this new age where, you know, technology is really trying to improve our lives on some level and take it over on others, you know, I go back to, should we be doing, are we smart enough to do this? And I don't, I think there are some people who think they're smart enough, but I don't know that as a people that we're truly smart enough.

[00:55:28] Yeah, it's really, it's a difficult, it's a difficult thing to really decide on, man. I mean, cause on the one hand, I think it can be extremely useful and helpful if done the right way. I think it can be dangerous and destructive if used another way, but that still doesn't

[00:55:54] bring in the whole, what is AI going to become as it continues to evolve? And that's another scary aspect of this whole discussion that we're having. I'm going to ask Claude a question right now. Here we go. Claude, as they say in France. Well, you know, I'm really amazed that Anthropic named this thing Claude, because there are guys all over France who are like, we? Yeah.

[00:56:22] I'm going to ask Claude, what's the best Star Trek series? Like, however, unironically, let me share my screen. Okay. Cause this is an interesting, you know. It's on the fly. Now, granted, it knows something of me because I use Claude. It knows that I have Trek geeks in my life. You know, it knows that I, I do these things. What's that? It better not be the animated series. If it comes up with that, Claude's going down the drain. So here it is. Good evening, Laurie. What's, what's the best Star Trek series? I'm going to ask it to think a little more.

[00:56:52] So I'm going to, um, I'm going to put in some medium effort here. Let's use some tokens. Nice. Sorry. So let's see what it says. Claude's usually very fast. It says deep space nine. It's not close. So it has an opinion. Wow. It's the only one committed to consequences. Characters changed. Relationships had weight. But it's not close. The war arc held together over multiple seasons and it had the guts to make Starfleet look complicated. Cisco was the best captain of the franchise.

[00:57:22] Full stop. And the ensemble is the deepest bench Trek has ever fielded. I have not, I have not poisoned these results. Wow. TNG gets the nostalgia crown and is genuinely great television. TOS gets the founding myth credit. TNG is where the franchise grew up. TNG is the best captain of the franchise. That is amazing. That's an amazing response. TNG is the best captain of the franchise. And I love it because you know how we feel about deep space nine.

[00:57:49] But yeah, I wonder if I pulled that up in chat GPT if it would be the same answer. Well, you know, it's entirely possible that it could be giving me this answer based on me. Because it knows my, you know, my things. It might be trying to appease me. Because that's the other thing. AI today lies. Okay. Funny story. Don't want to go out of 10 in too long. I'm doing something with work and one of my coworkers reached out to me and goes, you've got to look at this. I can't even believe it. So she showed me a question that she asked AI and it gave a whole bunch of crap.

[00:58:19] A bunch of answer. And then she said, yeah, but what about this? And the response was, oh yeah, I was lying about that. Here's the real answer. Yeah. Jim says, it's funny. It doesn't mention Voyager or Enterprise or Discovery or Picard or Strange New Worlds or Lower Decks. Ryan says, chat GPT says there isn't a single best. So I'm interested to see if you get the same response. I'm pulling it up right now.

[00:58:48] Let's see what we got. No, I don't want to do that. I just want to go into this and just do this. What is the best Star Trek series? I will read it instead of sharing my screen. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. It's done. There is no single best. It depends on what you like. Brief guide. If you want classic genre-defining sci-fi, TOS. If you prefer character-driven, optimistic, episodic stories, Next Generation. If you like serialized plots, deep political, ethical complexity, and long character arcs, DS9.

[00:59:18] Adventurous character growth is Voyager. Modern production is Discovery. Lighter episodic character-focused is Strange New Worlds. That's what chat GPT says. Interesting, and Ryan said, wait, if I scrolled, it said it forced to rank. It puts DS9 first. I'm going to do that right now. Force a choice. A phaser to your head. Force a choice. Let's see who we got. Chat GPT. Well, computers are never wrong, right?

[00:59:48] Well, true. That's true. Deep Space Nine, best overall for complex characters, serialized storytelling, political depth, and moral ambiguity. That sounds really kind of like the answer that Claude gave us. So suffice it to say that, you know, as the debate on AI rages on, you know, Star Trek has handled it well. It's handled it not well. But I think that it's going to give storytellers in Star Trek more to chew on as the decades roll on.

[01:00:18] You know, assuming there is more Star Trek. There is more Star Trek. Before we go, let me ask you this, dude. Yeah. I think that Star Trek has tackled the AI, and I don't mean to start a fist to cuffs, way better than Star Wars in any way, shape, or form. Star Wars isn't about technology. It's about a war. Yeah. You know, in a rebellion.

[01:00:43] So, I mean, there's plenty of things that Star Wars doesn't touch, even as entertaining as it is. So, I'm not surprised by that. Yeah. You know, I bet you. A long time ago, AI wasn't around yet. Right. I mean, unless you want to count that Steven Spielberg movie that's dreadful. That movie is so bad. I don't say that about Spielberg often. Which one?

[01:01:07] But yeah, I hope that future generations of Star Trek writers, long after we're gone, you know, broach topics like this in a sensible way. You know, do something more than holodeck gone wrong stories. Right. Because I think that there's much more weighty things there. You know, at some point, who knows, AI could be making life or death decisions. And maybe even on our own society. Who knows? It's not now. We don't know. Is the holodeck a super form of AI, do you think?

[01:01:36] Because it has to adapt to whatever the person is doing while they're in there. Do you think that's a form of AI? Or just program? Yes and no. I think in the sense of Moriarty it was. But I think otherwise, it's just running a series of parameters, you know, in a computer program. You know, more if-then stuff. Yep. Which is what, you know, the enterprise computer typically is. Right. But in Moriarty, it was asked to create an opponent that could defeat Data. Data. Yep.

[01:02:04] And so Moriarty took on a personality and qualities that nobody could describe. And so I think that's why Moriarty is, but the rest of the holodeck probably is not. Gotcha. Okay. Cool. So. Fun discussion, dude. Love it. I like it when we can tie it back to, you know, emerging technology that we're on the precipice of here. Yeah. We don't have all the answers.

[01:02:29] Star Trek doesn't have all the answers, but I think maybe 50 years from now, I think that it'll look a lot different. And so will Star Trek as a result. Absolutely. Yep. Sounds good. Dan, that's going to do it for us for this week. I have no idea what next week's topic is going to be, but it will be July. It'll be July. It'll be fun. We'll have a great time day before the holiday. I got a super long weekend that weekend coming up after that. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be great. I'm taking like five days off.

[01:02:58] So yeah, it's going to be great. So it'll be great. Oh, good for you guys. I only have one day off because I have a new job. So that's it. That's all right. It happens. But we hope you all, you know, as you experiment with AI or not, you know, I'm interested to hear as to how it may get foisted upon you in your lives or how you've chosen to adopt it. I think we will probably have to follow this topic up another time.

[01:03:25] And as my own platform that I'm developing goes into production and someday becomes a sponsor of Trek Geeks, I'm sure we'll hear more about that. Yep. I think that's a fantastic idea. I can't wait to do the triple cuts. But anyway, for Dan Francisco, for me, this has been Thursday Night Geeks. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for always being here and for bringing joy and levity to the party. We're grateful for your presence every week.

[01:03:55] And we will do it again very soon. We hope you all live long and prosper, everyone. Have a great night. Take care. Coconut. Music for Trek Geeks is provided by Five Year Mission. They're creating one original song for each episode of Star Trek. Get their music at fiveyearmission.net. Trek Geeks and Thursday Night Geeks are a production of Coconut Media Works. Executive producers Bill Smith and Dan Davidson. For the best Trek podcast in the galaxy, be sure to visit trekgeeks.com. The well-wim 이거 being read about the opposite time. Florida Night Geeks and Buzz in the album. The former country should be able to han ra abrir the parks to the park. As a shepherd as a young support team of the patrol company, fight for free. We will use that again to be aired with principe tripped or brass destacances. The only interesting part is that guidelines around whenever we postàn perち and to pull out our resources.