Nana Visitor & Open a Channel

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[00:00:40] Hi, this is Nana Visitor, Major Kira Norris from Deep Space Nine and you are listening to the biggest little show this side of the Gamma Quadrant, the Trek Geeks podcast with Bill Smith and Dan Davidson.

[00:01:45] From the Video Transcription Office of Podfleet Command, it's the biggest little show this side of the Alpha Quadrant and the flagship of the Trek Geeks podcast network. Greetings to you humans all over the known universe and welcome to the Trek Geeks podcast.

[00:01:59] I'm your co-host Bill Smith and this is episode number 320. Here we are in 2025, ready to have a great year, although Dan and I seem to be taking the first six weeks of it off. But enough about that. I've already mentioned his name and almost kind of like Voldemort, I suppose I should bring him into the conversation.

[00:02:19] If he had no nose, it would greatly improve his face. But then just covering it with a bag would do that anyway. He is the uglier than all get out Dan Davidson. And Dan, welcome to the show. Okay, thanks. Great. Good to be here. Hey, year 10, baby. Here we are. That's right. Year 10. Look at us. Six weeks off and feeling great.

[00:02:46] No, it's good to be here. Always nice to get behind the microphone and talk some Trek with you today, man. And I'm looking forward to what we have on deck for all of our five or six listeners that we have on the here on Trek Geeks. That many? Wow. I think it's doubled, actually. Yeah. So I'm pretty excited. We're moving up in the world. This is amazing. Like George and Weezy. It's only taken 10 years to catch on.

[00:03:11] I know, right? Well, good things like wine or something. Speaking of wine, I really need a drink. But anyway. Yeah, because you're being on the wagon. It's not helping me at all. It's almost done. Almost done. Great to see you, too. So one of the great things about having launched Thursday Night Geeks, our new live stream, which happens every Thursday live on YouTube, is that occasionally we're going to bring content from there over here for our regular audio listeners.

[00:03:35] And we decided that our conversation this past week with Nana Visitor was so amazing that we had to bring it to everybody listening to the audio show, Dan. Yeah. How can it not be amazing? Nana could just say there and say, hi, and it's going to be amazing because she is amazing. So it was so wonderful for her to accept our invitation to come on and talk about her new book. She came on. We had a fantastic time talking to her.

[00:04:02] She is one of the most wonderful people in the entire world. It's our second time welcoming her to Trek Geeks. The first was 10 years ago. My bad as director of media relations, not bringing her on sooner. I take full responsibility, as you so aptly point out in the discussion that we have with said Nana Visitor. Well, there will be a little something extra in your next paycheck, and that will be your performance review, and it's going to be terrible. That's great.

[00:04:32] Well, at least I'm getting one. Am I? Well, I got to do that, too. Very nice. Very nice. I pulled out punches. I pulled out punches. Your empire, my coattails. Wow. No, your coattails. Sorry. I'm just riding them. There we go. That's what I meant. It's your empire. That's clear. So we bring you that audio now.

[00:04:57] Dan and I will be back on the other end to sort of wrap it up for everybody listening to the audio version of the podcast. But for now, please enjoy our Thursday Night Geeks conversation with the amazing Nana Visitor.

[00:05:32] And not that we want to thumb our nose at any particular studio that uses that particular intro, but I thought it might make us all feel a little more at home. Welcome, Nana Visitor. It's so wonderful to see you. Thank you. It's really great to be here. And I agree. That opening is, I think that's why I came on the show. See, I told you it wasn't because of us. It's stirring. It's quite stirring.

[00:05:59] The whole idea was to sort of capture the vibe of Monday Night Football in the 90s. You did it. You did it. Right down to the logo for Thursday Night Geeks. Because we want this to be, you know, appointment YouTube, I guess. Appointment YouTube. I like it. If it's not a thing, it is now. And that's really all that matters. But shame on us for waiting 10 years to have you back on. It's so wonderful to see you. How have you been?

[00:06:26] Well, first of all, congratulations on having this for 10 years. Thank you. That's amazing. Good on you. Thank you. I've been really good. Been really good. Excellent. That's awesome. Yeah. It's always great to see you. You know, of course, we're going to get into Deep Space Nine and everything like that, I'm sure, during the conversation. But I love every once in a while, my wife and I just watched our sixth complete rewatch of Grimm.

[00:06:53] And, of course, you have a fantastic guest appearance as the Queen Bee in one of the season one's episodes. And it's always great to see you showing up here and there. You know what's weird? I have played an insect three times. What were the other two? It was a movie where I was actually another bee, but you didn't know I was a bee.

[00:07:18] And, yeah, I had the famous line because it was like the pinnacle and they were ruining. And it was like the poopa, the poopa. It was a hard line to get out. And the other one, I can't remember what I was, but it was another bug. So, yeah, there's something about me that says insect of some kind of name. I cornered the market. I don't understand this at all.

[00:07:48] Very interesting. I don't look at you and think insectoid. I really don't. No, not at all. The poopa. Yes. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you what, Nana. We have you here, of course, to catch up with you and see how you're doing and talk Deep Space Nine. But the main reason we wanted to have you on was for this incredible piece of work that you have come out with. Star Trek opened a channel, a women's trek. We're very excited to talk to you about it.

[00:08:17] The reviews that have come in over the last several months are just amazing. Congratulations on such a successful endeavor. And I guess the first question I want to throw right at you with regards to the book is, what brought you to the idea of doing a book about the women of Star Trek? Of course, we all know how crucial a role you played for women in Star Trek with Deep Space Nine with Kira. But what brought you on that path to do this book?

[00:08:47] A man did. A man opened the door for me, the kind of door opening I like, and said, you know what? Ben Robinson, who was my editor, my wonderful editor on this book, and he said, I think this book should be done, but I don't think a man should do it. Would you be interested? And the book that was proposed was very different.

[00:09:15] And to his credit, when I went, okay, but this is what I want to talk about in the book. This is the way I want the book to go. He was like, yeah, let's go. And just let me write it. Let me tell the story I wanted to tell of the decades of women.

[00:09:35] And looking at the cultural effect that women, the women of Star Trek had on the audience, but also what the cultural effect that we were living under in each decade was. And yeah, it was great. I'm so grateful. Because no, I wouldn't have thought. Yeah, I'm the person to write about the women of Star Trek. Now, now let's go.

[00:10:05] No, I didn't. But he opened that door and I ran through it. How long did it take you to have all of these amazing conversations and then sit down and start to put it all to virtual paper as it were? But it wasn't just the interviews. And that took years, a couple of years. Yeah. Because, you know, booking someone. And at first we were filming them all and people were coming to my house.

[00:10:35] I wanted it very much not to just be talking heads, but to be women the way they talk to each other, doing something else. Terry and I climbed the hill. I had the original Star Trek guest stars come to my house and we ate lunch and watched some of their clips and talked about it. But it wasn't just that. It was I would do an interview, realize how little I knew about all of it. Wow.

[00:11:04] And I'd go, hold on. And I'd get books on feminism, on bias, on all that. It was like a huge learning experience for me. And then I'd never watched all of Star Trek, all the shows. I'd never done that. I had to watch them. I thought at first, you know what? I'm not going to have to do this. I'm just going to write about the women.

[00:11:33] And it was like quickly I went, oh, what was I thinking? And the thing is, as I watched it from I'd always seen the original, but I I needed to study them through this lens. So I watched them and then Next Gen and then our show and then Voyager. I went through them all to the current shows. And I became such a huge fan.

[00:11:59] I realized what people saw, not just our show, because I thought, yeah, but our show is different. No, no. Right. All of them had unique qualities and unique things to to to give the audience. And and I learned I mean, I learned so much writing this book. So you're a Star Trek completist now. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. A Star Trek star who was also a Star Trek completist.

[00:12:28] And I would say that's probably kind of rare because a lot of people that we talk to don't have been watch themselves or don't or have not watched all of the Star Trek. Well, I hadn't seen. I didn't realize how much. And now I didn't see every episode of every show, but I didn't realize how much I had missed of our show, especially towards the end, probably because I had two young boys at the time and I was filming 16 to 18 hours a day.

[00:12:57] So I and if you missed it, you missed it. I wasn't good with videotape. So if if it wasn't on broadcast TV, I didn't watch it. But but wow, I gained a new appreciation for our show, too. That's awesome. It is. It is with all of the Trek, all of the new Trek. I'm very happy to say it is still Bill and I's favorite and it probably always will be.

[00:13:22] So you were talking about interviewing different people, different women from the different decades of the shows. And we all know that each. Decade had its its own bubble of problems, I guess would be the best way to put it in terms of the way that women have been treated in Hollywood throughout the course of history.

[00:13:44] Did you see were you able to see any improvement as you talk to people in the different times or did everything just kind of bleed into each other? And were some things that take place later on during Voyager and Deep Space Nine and even the newer Trek a worse position that maybe some people remember seeing back in the 60s? The 90s were tough. The 90s were very tough for women.

[00:14:13] There were a couple of things happening all at once that made it so. But media suddenly went 24 hours and that had a huge effect. And they used to have this saying, if it bleeds, it leads. So watching women fail, watching women, you know, that became and it was also a reaction to women suddenly having a bigger voice in a bigger place in the workforce.

[00:14:41] And there was a backlash. There always is to everything. And it was a very difficult time. But I didn't realize it when I was living through it. It was just like, these are the rules. This is how we live. This is how to get by. And you made decisions about your life. When to go outside by yourself. When to not go to a party.

[00:15:12] When to just go, yeah, I want to do that role. But there are things that I don't want to do within it. So I'll just say no to the role. That you just, I just started to learn how it was at the time and follow that, which is horrible. I'm happy to say that the young women now, the ones that I spoke to, do not live that way.

[00:15:42] One of the biggest shocks of my life is to hear that the new shows have HR. There is, yes, yes. They can go to someone if they have an issue. There was no, no. No, you just, you go to someone and say, this happened. And they tell you, fine, there are 10 more behind you who can do the job, who will do it and shut up.

[00:16:09] And that was over and over and over again until you start to live in this narrow place that is offered to you. So that's what's so important to me is the awareness, not just for women, but for all of us. When we start to get, you know, when the guardrails come in so tight, we've got no room to do what we want to in our lives. Just the awareness that those are guardrails. Those aren't our limitations.

[00:16:38] Those are limitations being put on us so that we don't forget that when we can, we can stretch and be as big as we are. Wow. Just hearing all that, you know, because we want to believe that, you know, Star Trek is this ideal and that, you know, Star Trek is, is this thing and it's amazing and it's awesome. But we, I think we forget sometimes that in the real world, these sort of underpinnings of the business, especially of the time.

[00:17:07] And I'm sure it still happens to some extent today in some areas is, is, is really disturbing. And it really leaves me with a horrible feeling. I, it was more the culture of the time. And of course, you know, a lot of producers would be living that culture. Those were the rules handed down and that's what they live by. Uh, but Star Trek was different.

[00:17:35] I couldn't believe I got to do the things I did on that show. And there were many reasons. One of them being an alien means I didn't have to live by those rules. I didn't have to live by the women's rules of the time. Not that I didn't make people uncomfortable, but I still got away with it.

[00:17:58] Also, we had extraordinary writers and extraordinary people like Ira Stephen Bear, who always thought about my, weirdly, my humanity, Kira's humanity, rather than thinking of her as a woman. She was this full spectrum being with all these emotional possibilities.

[00:18:26] So that, that made a huge difference too. But Star Trek, believe me, the opportunity for women was huge. It was huge. And it was like, oh my God, yes. I'll run to that. You, uh, you just said something that was, that was, uh, a question I was going to bring up to you. And of course we have, we've had strong women in Star Trek all the time. Of course, Uhura and Dr. Crusher and, and, and, and Captain Janeway.

[00:18:52] Your character was amazingly strong. Said it like, like it, like she meant it. She didn't, she didn't pull punches. She was a very strong, very powerful character. Did you at the time run into any backlash? Because that was something that may not have been usual to see. And did the character run into any backlash with writing it as the show progressed?

[00:19:16] Yeah, I think people got nervous because of course the writers got, um, uh, got the message that it made men uncomfortable. Um, women less so. Um, but I, but some women too at the time. Uh, I certainly got called a bitch a lot, which was a big nineties word.

[00:19:40] Um, it was popular to call women all kinds of names back then, which is why I'm sensitive to it now. But I was called a bitch. I was called a wannabe man. Um, it was as if men own that brand of strength and women have to stick to theirs.

[00:20:03] Well, there are women who are strong in a very different way than I am, but I brought what I have and what I am to the role. And I was perplexed actually, when people would go, that's not a woman's strength. It's like, what? We're not a monolith. It's like, what? It's, I'm a human being who lived through a certain life. And this is how I approach things. And this is what I bring to her.

[00:20:33] I, I'm dumbfounded that these, that those things were actually said to you. I mean, you know, it's, I think about, you know, we're getting better as a society. Spoiler alert, we're not, you know, I, I think of the fact that we've advanced so far. Spoiler alert, we haven't. And, you know, to hear some of these things, it kind of brings back visuals of the old days. Like, you know, when, when my parents who were part of the world war two generation were growing up, all those caricatures and stereotypes. Oh, they're so amazing.

[00:21:01] I went doing, that's another thing that I probably spent 10 years during writing this book, looking at YouTube videos from the seventies, eighties, and nineties. I went down the rabbit hole. It was really do yourself a favor and just look up misogynistic ads. And it's not just for TV. It's for magazines. And these are the messages that are coming at you from, from my childhood on.

[00:21:30] They were, they, it was really, um, it, so you, so you start to feel the guardrails come in. It's like, Oh, don't do that. That's, that's not acceptable. This, uh, so it's like, okay, this much of me is acceptable and reasonable. I, it's amazing. Cause recently I went back and I did a rewatch of Starsky and Hutch from the seventies. Right. Oh, wow. That had to be interesting. It really was, especially to look at it through today's lens.

[00:21:58] One, that show would never be made today. Um, two, the, just the rampant sexual harassment that occurs on broadcast television during the 1970s was, was shocking and appalling. And I was able to watch this as a kid. Yeah. You know, I, I, you know, you, you know, you're there in the, you know, the detective squad room and Starsky and Hutch are talking to the female police officers as if they're something

[00:22:27] less than human. And it's like, I, today I look at it as a 55 year old man. I'm going, how, how was this ever acceptable to us? But that's the way to know that things did get better. Yeah. You know, they, they really did. And I remember talking to Jess Bush and that so affected me because I said, has this ever been said to you? And it's offensive. And she was beyond shocked.

[00:22:57] She was, are you kidding me? Buildings would have burned if anyone said that to me. And I go, great. That's then we're making some progress. That's good. It's funny. Bill's what Bill was watching. I'm watching my wife and I are watching three's company right now. So there's another one. I mean, that is just, we watch it and we're like, how in the world did any of this get approved to be on primetime television? Yeah.

[00:23:27] It's just amazing how the times have changed or have they changed? I mean, I'm sure that there are new facets of problems that are being faced by today's women that are acting on these amazing shows. And it's just a question of when is enough of enough? Yeah. When is, when, when is it going to stop?

[00:23:52] I wish I had been able to be on those sets to really get a feeling for it, but I wasn't because it was COVID. And of course they were closed sets. Yeah. So I haven't seen that, but I've done work. I've filmed things and I see how things have changed are very different.

[00:24:15] Uh, I worked with an intimacy coach on one thing and it was like, this is, this is unbelievably great. I don't know if everyone likes it, but I think it is fantastic and clear. So there are things in place that have, that, that are better. And it's almost unfair to look at things with our, you know, present day information and

[00:24:44] judge them. I mean, I look at some things that I did that it was like, yeah, that's normal. Now I go, Oh my God. I do that pretty much every day. I get up for work. Oh my God. What a problem. Um, before we go to a quick break, I'm just curious, were there any other conversations

[00:25:09] you had with this amazing array of women that really kind of surprised you like in, in a, in a wonderful way? Is there something, a conversation you went into thinking, Oh, I know what this is going to be. And then you were just sort of blown away by how it was something else entirely. Yeah. I think that there were, there were several, but Mary Wiseman, and it's one of the abilities, uh, of these young women.

[00:25:37] When I was young, women were taught that we were each other's competition. And, you know, it was like, how am I going to trip this runner trying to run the race with me so that I have a chance to win, which is one of the saddest things. Uh, one of the worst things that women accepted is that we were each other's enemies. Uh, these younger women seem to have a very different approach.

[00:26:04] And Mary Wiseman was so the other thing that happens. And I think it happens, especially if you've been giving interviews for 30 years, we get a thing down, we answer things in a certain way. It's like, Oh, that story, or Oh, that's what you want to hear. And you get the interview done. And, uh, these young women don't do that there. And they're not thinking about, oops, I've got to protect the franchise. I got to protect myself.

[00:26:34] I've got it. And she was very emotional saying what her experience was, especially with an audience who was unkind about her physical appearance. And that was, you know, so I so appreciated that because there's so many women who need to see and men who need to see you're going to comment. This is what it does.

[00:27:03] This is the pain it costs. So yeah, it, the young women surprised me with their forthcomingness. That's really kind of amazing. I think we're going to talk a little bit more about that right after, uh, we take a small break here, do some, uh, some, some commerce as we talked about before the show. And, uh, we'll be right back after we do a little business with America. Stay right with us.

[00:27:40] Dan, here we are as always, here we are. Aren't we? We want to thank fansets for being our presenting sponsor of Thursday night geeks and for being with us all these many years, uh, because it's, we, we are so truly grateful to be their partner. Yeah, we, we really are. We say it every week, man. We, we can't think of a better group of people to be our sponsor.

[00:28:03] Uh, I mean, seriously, they have the best officially licensed star Trek swag in the whole sector. Hell, maybe the whole damn quadrant. You know, I was going to do it. You know, I was going to go there. Uh, and you know, because we have the lovely and talented Nana visitor live with us on Thursday night geek tonight, we're going to have a very special offer for all you listeners. So head on over to fansets.com right now and simply type Bajor in the search bar. Now, when you do that, one of the things that you're going to find is the Bajor militia

[00:28:33] comm badge in pin form for the amazing reduced price of only $15 to honor our very special guest star tonight. Now, please keep in mind, this special price is for the pin version only, not the magnet form. Uh, the special price is good only until this coming Sunday night. Um, and it is first come first serve, which means once they're gone or after the Sunday, whichever comes first, they will not be available at this special price.

[00:29:01] So get over there to fansets.com right now before they send Colonel Kira after you, you don't want that to happen. Um, also you're going to find the women of Trek Kira pin is also available at fansets.com. Uh, and I just wanted to let you know, you're going to want to scarf that one up really quick because they only have a few of those left. Wow. You've got the low down inside on all these pins. I don't know how you do it. That's the only thing I really work on now. I've noticed. And, um, that's going to come up in your next performance review.

[00:29:28] Oh, oh, um, but truly that is amazing news. So if you happen to be listening to Dan and didn't fall asleep during his whole diatribe there, get that Bajoran militia com badge at a discounted price through this coming Sunday, February 16th. Supplies are limited. No reef. I'm sorry. No substitutions, no rain checks. You know, the deal, get a whole bunch of stuff, put it in your card at fansets.com. And then of course, remember at checkout, use the special discount code Trek geeks to get

[00:29:57] 10% off your entire order with fansets. That's Trek geeks and all capital letters with no spaces. And of course, don't forget when you spend more than $30 on fansets.com, you automatically get free shipping in the United States. You know what I'm going to say? Here we go. Do I fansets? Our pins have character and we thank our friends at fansets for being the presenting sponsor of Thursday night geeks.

[00:30:23] And of course, don't forget the brand new reschedule date for Trek Talks 4. Dan, hard to believe this is the fourth time we've done this telephone. Saturday, April 5th, 2025. First contact day in the Star Trek world. Yes. Events starting at 945 a.m. Pacific, kicking off with the Sci-Fi Sisters.

[00:30:52] And of course, we'll be joined by the person who always responds first to their Trek Talks invites. The one and only Nanav visitor. Nanav, thank you for... Always helping us out with Trek Talks. We are honored to have your presence and we're so grateful for your kindness and your graciousness. And we're looking forward to a great day to hopefully raise a lot of money. Yeah, me too. Thank you for having me be a part of it. You know, it's... Go ahead, Dan.

[00:31:21] You're a staple in that now. People love to hear what you have to say. Of course, the book is going to be something that people are going to want to hear about. And although this is going to sound not as important as it really is. It's always important to do these telethons and to help people. And being involved with the Hollywood Food Coalition has been amazing.

[00:31:45] This year, it seems to have an additional weight on it and being able to help people in the area with everything that's going on with those fires and the possible landslides on top of the unfortunate homelessness and everything that goes on in the area. So thank you so much for being a part of it. We're really looking forward to it. We're so sad that we had to postpone it, but it was the right thing to do. And we're looking forward to it in just a couple of months. It was. It was. And I'm looking forward to it too.

[00:32:12] I know I'm usually the person who sends the Trek Talks email. So when you reply to that particular mailbox, Danah, it's me. And I can count usually within a few seconds how quickly I will get a reply from Danah Visitor's email. Oh, yeah. I mean, why wouldn't I do that? It's pretty great what you guys do. It's really wonderful. The whole, all of you.

[00:32:37] It's, I feel like I'm holding onto your coattails of, you know, doing something amazing. Oh, my goodness. We're all part of the same team, thankfully. And, you know, we're lucky to have such great production partners in Roddenberry Podcasts and Sci-Fi Sisters and TrekMovie.com. And, of course, the support that we get from Hollywood Food Coalition is just, it's amazing. We've come a long way since that first telethon when, you know, we were still trying to figure out how the hell we do something like that.

[00:33:05] But that's the way starting something is. It's always that way. It's just rife with, you know, fear and sweat. It was. It's. It's. There's always a seat of your pants element. Yeah. Yeah. That also makes it exciting. It doesn't it? Just a little bit. You know, you know, we've talked, Dan and I have talked a lot this year about this being our, you know, our decade anniversary.

[00:33:35] And, you know, he and I have reflected privately about this. And we say, you know, if this telethon is really what our legacy is, you know what? I can hang up my hat at the end of the day and I can say, damn it. That was pretty awesome. Because in three years, we've raised close to three hundred fifty thousand dollars. It's amazing. Thanks to the goodwill of Star Trek fans all over the world. That's amazing. I should say we we've helped to raise because we obviously didn't do it alone.

[00:34:04] And that goes directly to helping people. And if that's not what Star Trek's about, then, man, I really don't know what is. No, it is community. And allowing people a way in to help. Don't forget, I can feel really good like you were talking about by being allowed to be a part of it. So it benefits all of us. I have to tell you really quick before we move on.

[00:34:31] So to everybody watching and everyone who watches after this, one of the most intimidating things in the world is to be talking about getting this telethon off the ground at a Trek talks party and sitting front row, staring at you, smiling from ear to ear as the visitor. It's very hard to keep your train of thought and go, oh, my God. And I was looking right at me and she's engaged and she's hanging on my every word. And oh, my God, I hope I don't say anything dumb.

[00:35:00] I can 100% attest to what Bill is saying now because I'll never forget it. That you were sitting right there in the front and you have the smile of a thousand angels and you were right there. And you're just like, oh, my God, I don't want to screw this up. I don't want to screw this up. I don't want to screw this up. And you didn't. You didn't. It's one of the first times he actually hasn't actually screwed something up. But that's neither here nor there. But I will say also, one of my favorite pictures of my entire life was at that event that we were at.

[00:35:30] I have a picture of selfie with you and I, which I will forever cherish. And it's going to smile as always again on it. Bill's not in it and it's even better. My light suddenly turned on. Look at that. It was like, yes, and it's gone. I don't know what's going on with it. You you need no extra light in an eye. You shine bright enough for all of us. It was a spotlight for a minute. So anyway, Saturday, April 5th, first contact day.

[00:35:59] We hope everyone joins us for eight straight hours of fantastic Star Trek discussion, all to benefit the Hollywood Food Coalition. I'll be there. We will be, too. And we we may be running purely on caffeine by the end of it. And it's going to be worth every second. I can imagine. It's up to you, Dan. Take it. All right. So and all of the amazing people that you talk to during the creation of this incredible

[00:36:26] book, what was it like for you to talk about your personal experience? It's one thing to have the conversation with someone who's done something similar. But you you have a lot more, I'm sure, inner feelings that that you may or may not want to put out while you're writing this book. What was it like to talk about your character and what you went through the positive and the not so positive during the time on DS9?

[00:36:54] It was it was like clearing. It it it helped me understand myself. I don't think that, you know, there's something about, you know, words are the language, obviously, of the prefrontal cortex, not our nervous system, not our emotions. It's the thinking part of our brain.

[00:37:18] And when you are forced to put things into words and that means that you've got to feel it, translate it into words and then put it down. And the way I wrote, I didn't think I just I just thought of writing down the truth of what happened, what I felt, what was going on. It it put my life into perspective.

[00:37:46] It actually shifted me in many ways. And it gave me a lot of compassion for this young woman who was, you know, there was a lot going on. And I don't think at the time I stopped to go. That's a lot. And so now at 67, I can look back and go, that was a lot for you, young woman. That was a lot.

[00:38:16] And you you kept putting one foot in front of another. Good for you. It's yeah, absolutely. I mean, because I'm sure that, you know, at the time you you came on to the scene, there's no better way to put this. You saw some shit. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's it's amazing to me.

[00:38:42] I mean, obviously, with the long, grueling work days, you know, you said it yourself, like 16 to 18 hours a day, trying to raise two little ones. And then all of this on top of it, the fact that you've you've come to this place in this phase in your life, I think is I think I think it should be celebrated. I mean, not only did you do it, you you did it with class. You you did it amazingly well. And I think you should be proud of that. Thank you. There's something called post-traumatic growth.

[00:39:10] And I went through the trauma of being kidnapped and raped by two men while I was filming the show. And of course, during that, I shut down, kept life going. And I think that was the kind of thing. And that was the most important thing. The muscle that was strongest in me was my acting muscle. So I could do that and be fine. The rest of my life, I was a bit of a zombie.

[00:39:38] I wasn't quite in my body. But because I had to work hard on myself, finally, when I did go, okay, this is bottom, now I have to recover. And I got help. And I, after I got help, I kept going, educating myself about my brain, about my nervous system, about different ways of coping with

[00:40:03] anxiety. I am certainly 100% sure that I am a much stronger, more resilient, better human than I was before. So that's post-traumatic growth. And that, that's something, you know, because at the time I thought I'm broken, that's it. I'm finished. As a human, I'll never be. And I think a lot, and that's

[00:40:30] important to say, because for anyone who's had trauma out there, it can get much better. It's a process and it's a long and it's one that you have to decide you're going to take, but it's possible. I can appreciate that on some level. We've talked a bit about this on the audio podcast before. I'm,

[00:40:54] I'm an adult survivor of child abuse and it was a long, arduous road. I mean, I still deal with situational anxiety. I'm still petrified of, of tall buildings because of what they represent. But in the last 10 to 15 years, I've seen more growth in myself as a human being than I ever had

[00:41:18] seen in the previous 40. And that's because I knew that I had to be able to, to function. You know, I have to be able to, to be there for my wife. I have to be able to, you know, be there to enjoy the, the life that we've created. I have to be able to, you know, be a good brother to my sisters. And when my mom was still around to be a good son to my mom. So I get, I can appreciate that even if I

[00:41:41] never truly realized that post-traumatic growth was a thing, it took me a long time to reconcile that and to actually realize, you know what, this isn't who you are, but those, those words really, really resound with me to not, I thank you for framing it like that. Well, and I appreciate you talking about it because, you know, one of the things that happens because I

[00:42:07] spoke about what happened to me is that people come up to me and speak about what happened to them and childhood trauma such as yours is so much more common than anyone knows because there's some kind of shame involved and it's never your shame. It's the other person's shame, not yours. We don't own that. But when we have difficulties with people, when we don't understand the behavior,

[00:42:37] I've really learned compassion and weight, who knows what happened to this person? We don't know. So many people walk around with these hurts and deal with it in ways that maybe aren't healthy sometimes, but you got to see them through that, you know, and just absolutely. And I'm glad that you brought up that aspect too, because I mean, I think my thirties were probably, I don't want to say they were destructive, but I absolutely did not like who I was in my thirties.

[00:43:06] Um, I, I, I didn't respect myself enough to want to grow or to heal even the slightest bit. Um, now, you know, with looking back, I, I, I kind of understand why I was that way. I didn't at the time, but I, I'm in a weird kind of way. I'm thankful for the journey. Even if it was the journey I wished I'd never been on. I don't know if that makes sense or not. It's a human one.

[00:43:36] Yeah. You're not, you're not alone. It's a human one. I, I, I got to agree with that, uh, uh, bill and now because my, my journey is different as we've talked about on the podcast. I almost committed suicide and it was actually, as Nana, I've told you it was deep space nine that saved my life back then. Um, literally. Um, and the journey, and I've always said as bad as that journey was, I would do it all again, knowing what is on the

[00:44:03] other side after that healing, which took a long time to get through the guilt that I had over everything that had happened to me. But listening to the seriousness of this conversation, I think really goes the heart of what star Trek is all about that willingness to help, to be with people, to help people, to though what you just said, people are going through such things and they

[00:44:29] have no idea. The people that are ridiculing or saying things or using words when they have no idea what that person is going through is part of the problem that we are facing today on a level that I haven't seen before. Yeah. Those words are great. What you guys were just talking about. It makes it hard to really talk about more about the conversation about the book and then because it's taken such a serious, but important turn. Yeah, but serious. And yet here we all are

[00:44:56] in our lives and, and thriving and it's human. That's the main thing. It's all huge. It's the human experience. It's not like this is the normal human experience. And I'm going to try to look like I'm having that one so that I look better than other people. Let's join everybody. You know, it's let's

[00:45:21] go join humanity. You know, absolutely. I couldn't agree more before you start, Dan. I that's no, that's fine. You keep, you've used the word community a couple of times tonight. And I keep coming back to that word because I really think it's the finest exemplar of, of what star Trek promotes. And I think this is all a part of whether it's the book or this conversation, it all is a part of that one

[00:45:45] aspect. And I think it's, it's perfect. I, uh, I, I, you've mentioned it a couple of times. I have to ask how Django and Buster doing. Um, I always like to ask about Django because we share the same birthday. So I'm just going to say, I love that. I love that. I, they are doing really, really well. Um, I, I, I kind of mourn not doing the podcast Django and I briefly had a podcast together, which was,

[00:46:11] you know, an inter intergenerational approach to what's going on. Um, but then he, um, his music took over. He's got a band and that's what his passion, his purpose. It's wonderful to see him develop. And it's a little weird because I thought he was going to be an actor. Um, it's weird for me

[00:46:35] to go this whole other thing. And, uh, Buster is, oh my God, he's doing so well. He's, he's recovered. Uh, he's in a place with his Crohn's disease that he's in remission and finally able to pursue what he wants to do. And he's doing amazing things with, um, he's really taking a deep dive

[00:47:02] into moral injury and, uh, what, what all of that is as a, as a, as a former Marine. So, um, I, I couldn't be prouder of them both. I just couldn't. And it's like, who are you two? It's all this stuff that is so brilliant. It's, it's, that's a fun part of being a mother. That's great. I thought I

[00:47:26] planted poppies. What the hell are these fabulous flowers coming up? Bill's a big old poppy. Not going to go there anyway. No, there's just so many different places I could take that. Yes. Yes. And I'm troubled by all of them, quite frankly. Um, then, uh, I got it. It just came into my head. I don't know why don't put meaning to it. No, no. Yeah. That's going to be our hashtag on, on, uh, all the social platforms left of the show.

[00:47:56] Um, one, one question I wanted to ask you, it's not related to the book, but we were talking about it. We've talked to people who were involved in, in the Trek at the timeframe that you were with, you know, TNG DS9 and, and Voyager and such, and have asked them, would you ever want to do it again? What was it like for you to reprise your role on lower decks? What was that like for you? She's never far away. It's like, she's right here walking with me. Shoot. And now I'm Kira.

[00:48:25] Now I'll try not to be Kira a little bit, but I still am. So she's always with me and it was a joy. And Mike McMahon was one of my favorite, um, interviews that I did. I learned so much from him. Uh, he's, he's, he's quite something. And I thought that the show reflected that you cannot

[00:48:48] do that kind of humor about Star Trek without being so affectionate and getting it from the bottom down and up and this way and that way he got it. And, uh, really smart guy. I I'm looking forward to seeing what's next from him. Yeah. You and me both, uh, lower decks just came to us at the right time. I think, you know, we were all sort of weary from the initial stages of lockdown and the pandemic.

[00:49:18] Then all of a sudden there comes this bright, irreverent look at Star Trek itself through Star Trek. And I fell in love with the show. I really did. It's the, just the right kind of a reverence. It, it, it, it came from deep, deep knowledge, not from wanting to make fun of it, you know, deep knowledge and deep affection. I understand that most of the, everyone who worked

[00:49:41] there, uh, was a fan. They, they, they were living their best dream. Big time. So here's a question. I know, you know, when Dan and I want to watch something, we, we have comfort food, you know, we go to Star Trek. What do you go to when, when you want some comfort food entertainment? I've always wondered this. I have very different ones. Yes. Very different ones. If I'm by myself,

[00:50:08] um, uh, law and order, typical woman, my age show law and order because it's scary. And then it's procedural and you know, that it gets resolved most of the time in a way it ends. So there's some kind of emotional satisfaction, uh, for me as a woman in that show. Um, so I like that,

[00:50:33] um, special, special victims unit. I love that. But then for just before bed, for getting ready for bed, which is a long process. It's just a, the older I get, there's more stuff, more vitamins. We have two dogs. I'm, I'm brushing my teeth. Then I brush the dog's teeth.

[00:50:54] It takes a long time. So, uh, right now the show is modern family. Oh, all the seasons. Good show. Yeah. And, and a recent show that I go, whoops, that could never get on now. Whoops. That, and it's pretty recent when you think of it. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Modern family is a great,

[00:51:18] especially if I've watched something heavy on TV, it's like a, a mind wash before bed. Yeah. I totally respect that. My wife and I went back and watch shows that we, you know, either missed starting in the middle because we watched the first few seasons of modern family. And then I don't know what happened. Yeah. No, life went in a direction and we went with it and we went back and watched all, and we wish we'd watched it first run. It was just so enjoyable. Yeah. It's really fun.

[00:51:47] I, the, the, the writing is amazing. The actors are all amazing. So good. Oh my gosh. One, better than the next. It's like, come on. That's just ridiculously wonderful. Even the kids, the kids. Uh, uh, I'm shocked at how good they are. Just all those comedic beats. Oh, I was never, see, I was never a married with children fan. So I never really watched Ed that much in that.

[00:52:15] He is so good in this show. He's been good in everything. I did a play with him, uh, in New York when I was very young, I was probably 20. And it, I think it was called the gentle people. And he and the other actor, something happened on stage. It was one of the worst cases of losing it, laughing. And it wasn't appropriate. He played a thug. He played a thug that was in love with me.

[00:52:44] And then I had a, a nice boy who was in love with me and we, we were on stage. I'm pretty sure it was a tense moment. We all lost it, but I mean, could not get it back for quite a long time. That's, uh, one of my favorite memories of him. Um, I, I know I have one more question, Bill, do you have one more question with regards to the book? Yeah, I do. I, um, but you go ahead.

[00:53:10] Okay. So we're talking about all the things that, that were problematic, um, all through the different decades of Star Trek, but, and, and, um, it was probably difficult to hear these things and, and, and read about them and write about them. What is there one thing on your journey of putting this book together? That was your favorite moment in, in doing this. What, if you have one, what is that?

[00:53:37] Yeah, I do. So I interviewed, um, Samantha Christopheretti, the astronaut in my home, and she was gracious and amazing. And, uh, she was going up to space and she, to the space, the international space station within a matter of weeks. And I was in Germany and I got invited to

[00:54:05] speak to her while she was on the space station. And this is a young woman, uh, fighter pilot engineer. Yep. There she is her, our Trek fan astronaut, uh, and mother at, when I spoke to her at my house,

[00:54:24] mother of two children under the age of five, like amazing. And when I went to Issa and I heard the woman who organized all this, you see the, you see the, you see the, the screens

[00:54:47] and you're in the space station. And she was someone who was inspired by this woman on a space station on TV. And she says, open a channel. And she, Samantha comes and talks to me, this young woman who was

[00:55:12] inspired to do what she does in part by Star Trek. It was a meta moment. Wait a minute, open a channel. That was my line. And now it's a real space station, a real astronaut. And I'm talking to her and she's going, hi, Nana. Good to see you again. Wow. I, I did it with the, we spoke briefly. It was brief,

[00:55:38] you know, of course. And then I spoke to the other astronaut who was there as well, which was another thrill. And then when they cut the camera, I turned away and I had a reaction that surprised me. I burst into tears. It was so emotional. It was huge. I can't even describe all the things.

[00:56:07] That's something I can't use my words for all the things it meant to me. It was incredible. That one stands out. That's great. So my last question is, is there anybody you didn't get a chance to talk to for this book that you wanted to?

[00:56:26] All of them. I suspected. All of them. And you know, yeah, no, my gosh. It was, it's sometimes you get cut off from an eight, you know, you send it to the agency, which is what you're supposed to do this request. Well, you know, and sometimes you just never hear, you don't know if they've sent it to the actor. Maybe they did. And they said, no, not another Star Trek thing. I, I was on that side

[00:56:56] of it and you know, I didn't get through. But the ones that I could get to, I'm so grateful for. They were all, all of them. So generous. Maybe we'll get a, a second volume someday. I can only hope. There's so many. I want to great. So many. I want to talk to that. I didn't get a chance to

[00:57:20] a long list of guest stars from the original Star Trek that, oh my gosh. Yeah. Let, let's start with Joan Collins. That'll never happen. Yeah. But I want to. Yeah. I mean, work on that for you. Yeah. Well, Dan will make a call. Soften her up for me. Okay. Then I'll come right in there.

[00:57:46] You know, Dan's a great wingman. That's all I can say. No, no. Thank you so much for being with us tonight. It is our joy and our privilege to have you. And we promise it won't be 10 years before we talk to you again. Your book, Open the Channel, is available at booksellers everywhere. So pick one of your favorites, go buy this book because I, I think you'll be, I think you'll have a range of

[00:58:12] emotions, everything from happy to, oh my gosh. And, and in between, it's a wonderful read and we're so grateful to have you, Nina. Thank you so much. Thank you, both of you. Huge pleasure. And that's great to see you. We're going to, I'm sorry, just wanted to throw in there, Bill. We're looking forward to seeing you again, virtually in just a couple months, but Vegas, hopefully we'll see you in Vegas. I'm bringing my book so you can sign it. And it'll, it's always a pleasure to see you. Good. We have a couple of dates. I'll be seeing you.

[00:58:57] You know, Dan, it's the kind of situation where I feel bad for not having to not on more often because she really is so joyful and so human that, I mean, we learned a lot about her tonight, but we carried on the conversation. Like we just saw her and she hasn't been on the show in 10 years. That's what's so great about her is, is she's so warm and so wonderful. And, and we're going to talk,

[00:59:23] have to talk to whoever's the idiot who sets up the, the, uh, uh, the guests on the show to, to see what the hell the problem was and not getting her on for a decade. Um, oh, right. That's me. Okay. Um, bad Dan, bad. You really suck at this. I'm going to, but wasn't it worth the wait? Wasn't it amazing? There's going to be something extra in your next performance review. Oh, great. Excellent. Yeah. She's, she's absolutely fantastic. She's all fantastic. She's so fantastic.

[00:59:50] Um, it's a joy to talk to her. And I found myself, even though, uh, to be honest, we talked about some, some uncomfortable things during this discussion with her about the book and even talking to her about it, it was a, it was a fantastic conversation. Um, she's able to, to tell her story, uh, and those

[01:00:15] that she interviewed in a way that, that really brings it down to a level that is easy to understand and be empathetic with and, and want more stories, not more bad stuff that happened, but more stories about stuff that happened. No, absolutely. And everybody, please, you know, if you have the opportunity, please go get Nana's book, uh, open a channel, a woman's truck. It is a, it is eyeopening.

[01:00:40] Um, you will, you will be entertained. You will be emotional. Um, it is all of those things and so much more, but it is so important to document and capture these stories for future treks long after you and I are gone, Dan. Um, I think that these types of stories will be important to future generations.

[01:01:04] I, I 100% agree. And, and, and the book is humongous. Yeah. It really is. It's so many amazing color photographs and, and I, I just gotta, I just gotta hand it. This is, I think this is the first foray into doing a novel. Was it, or not a novel, but, but a book book. Um, but it, it, it was a fantastic job to her and to her publisher. Um, kudos because it's, it's, it's, it's not a boring,

[01:01:32] nothing is boring when you're reading it. It just, it's, it's, it's the definition of a page turner because there's so much history involved. Um, and there's so much passion in what she does, um, as she's telling these stories. So, um, yeah, definitely check it out, go get it anywhere. It's anywhere that you can find it online and do what I'm doing. I'm taking this bad boy to, to Vegas, as I said to her, and I'm getting her to autograph it because it's, it's, it's just

[01:01:58] that awesome a book. You know, these stories are as much a part of the history of Star Trek as, you know, any behind the scenes story or, you know, anything that we've learned from TOS or TNG forward, these individual accounts of experience of, you know, of women in general and, you know, how they have aided Star Trek, but also, you know, created their own identities and careers.

[01:02:28] I think is, is important. Um, it's one that, that I, I think will, I will probably actually get the hard copy of myself and having to not sign it. Yeah. Simply because, um, I think it's that important, honestly. It is that important and, uh, cannot thank her enough for joining us. Uh, and I promise it will not be another 10 years before we have her back on the show. How's that? In fact, next week,

[01:02:50] no, just kidding. Um, Dan, we also have to thank five year mission. Do we, I mean, of course we do. They have been with us the entire 10 years. They really have. Um, and we are so grateful to them, you know, for letting us use, you know, their amazing music on this show episode after episode, even despite the fact that you were a part of this show, Dan.

[01:03:17] Hey, you take the good with the bad, I guess. Right. But then you take them both and there you have five year mission. Yeah, absolutely. And, and you know what, as kind of a, it's kind of a thank you as a present, uh, as we celebrate this 10 years and had Nana on for the first time in a decade, I am going to not have everybody's ears bleed this week with a farkism. How's that? Is that a good present? You like that present? Who are you? And what have you done with Dan Davidson? But I am

[01:03:46] going to make your eyes bleed because I'm going to point you to our store at shop.trekgeeks.com. Fark himself was wearing himself on his chest as a shirt. Go check it out at shop.trekgeeks.com. There are two versions of Farkism shirts. I love Farkisms. That's it. That's the shirt, or I'm only here for the Farkisms. Check them out. Then you can be a Farkism all day long with your

[01:04:11] friends, family, enemies, and pets. And it's wonderful. Wait, wait, let's examine this statement for a minute. Friends, family, enemies, and pets. Those are four very different and diverse groups of people. Because if you get them all ganged up, or you're wearing a Farkism shirt, they'll all become your enemies. And then it's an all-in-one package. So there you go.

[01:04:36] Wow. You're just out to watch the world burn, apparently. I'm just out to watch Farkism shirts. So tell me the truth now. Obviously, you're behind a microphone, so you were sworn to the truth. This is just because you didn't write a Farkism this week, right? Absolutely. Yeah, it absolutely is. But I will say that it's been a week or so since actually, since Fark posted a picture on social media about the shirt. I'm like, oh my God,

[01:05:02] we've got to do that for a Farkism. And so since I knew I was going to do that, I didn't bother to write one for this part of the recording. So lazy, but also visual. So it's a win-win. Again, win-wins all around. Lazy, ugly. Yeah. Not too bright. He's not ugly. Oh, me. You. You. Fark is beautiful and glorious. That's why he's got his own shirt. That's why he's got his own shirt. But of course, there's also a litany of music that you can get

[01:05:31] for your very own. We want you to go get that physical media, those CDs, get them in your grubby little paws, or that's you, Dan. And for everybody else in your amazing fingers, put those CDs in your digits and get on the five-year mission bandwagon. Become a huge fan as we are ourselves. And because I mean, it's just the right thing to do. 10 years, people, 10 years, you've been hearing their music on this podcast. And you're thinking, well, I should really get the CD someday. Well,

[01:06:00] you know what? Today's that day, my friend, you're going to go to five-year mission.net. You're going to get all those CDs. You're going to put them in your cart and you're going to say, Dan Davidson made me do this. If you haven't gotten the CDs in 10 years, what the Fark are you doing? You need to go out and do it. I did get a Farkism in. Yes. I'm invincible. No, you're not. That doesn't count. All right. Sorry. No, you're inevitable. If your shirt is any indication. That's right. That is what my shirt is today. Absolutely.

[01:06:29] Dealing with you is inevitable. All right. It makes me beat my head against the wall. Excellent. Mission accomplished. Five-year mission.net. Of course, don't forget, Dan, that you too, in addition to all the amazing people we're about to list, can become a supporter of Trek Geeks by subscribing to us on Patreon where there's perks and there's audio and all kinds of

[01:06:54] great, great stuff. Lots, lots of great stuff. We love our Patreon articles so much. We're always humbled by their support. Thank you to each and every one of them. Right now, we want to give a very special thank you to our associate producers of Trek Geeks, and they are. Big breath. Here we go. Vikram Bhatt, Chad Clark, Brad DeMag, William Edward M. Jr., Andy Fark, Kimberly Francis, Ryan Jeffs, Sean Lynn, Rick Mason, Jamie McGregor, Ross McKinney, Aaron Mollenkopf, Sarah Ledoux,

[01:07:22] Helen Reed, Sarah Rutlinger, Tim Robertson, Desi Rogers, Greg Rozier, Eric Sakian, Adam Sanders, Tim Serdar, Heather Sohn, Blake Strike, Ron Robel, Kaylea Zawacki, Zawacki, Zawacki, Zawacki, I always say it, but I get it wrong. And the gracious, the gracious and wonderful Connie Huntins. I'm very upset at Kaylea because she went on a cruise and I didn't remember and I hope she had fun. So wait, why are you upset at her if you didn't remember? Because. Because why?

[01:07:52] I don't need to answer that. Because you can't. Dan, I've got a special bonus for you right now. I'm going to read off the name of our Trek Geeks producers, but it's going to be an NPR style. Oh, here we go. Good afternoon and welcome to Trek Geeks. I'd like to recognize our Trek Geeks producers for their never ending support.

[01:08:21] We're so grateful for all of them. Mike Bovia, Steve Bovia, Jeff Caliendo, Kyle Castillo, Peter Craig, Andy Davenport,

[01:08:37] Craig Ewing, Jackie Hackney, and also Chris Hackney, Brian Hackwith, Kimberly Hartman, David Hood, Lionel Marchand, Matt McGonigal, Jim McMahon, Darren Metcalf.

[01:09:07] Charlie Mulvey, Sean O'Halloran, Casey Pettit, Jamie Rogers, Casey Schapsky, Terry Scholl, Jim Stoffel, Chris Tribuzio, who Dan, I just saw this past weekend. Did you? Out in Las Vegas, Nevada. That's wonderful. That's a wonderful city.

[01:09:36] In Nevada, where there's a lot of hotels and casinos. Have you ever been, Dan? Once or twice, Bill. Is it Nevada or Nevada? It is Nevada. Nevada. Thank you. Nevadans will get very angry at you if you say Nevada. Okay. Nevadonians. No. Please hush your mouth while I read the remaining names.

[01:10:07] Christina Werther. And of course, Dan, the lovely and yet also talented. Jess Vashon. Dan, the senior producer of Trek Geeks. is a wonderful lad by the name of Jude Tatman. Is that it? Thank you, Dan.

[01:10:36] This concludes the NPR portion of the Trek Geeks podcast. I did my best not to laugh without muting. And I think I failed a couple times. I saw you about to break and it was rough because it almost made me break. That was very well done. It was actually, usually I want to like just pluck my eyeballs out when you're doing NPR. That was actually very well done. Thank you, Dan. No, we're done though. You don't have to do it again.

[01:11:06] I do it whenever I want to because I'm the producer. Okay. Well, I got to say also that anybody, anybody can become a producer of Trek Geeks. It is so easy to do. Head on over to patreon.com slash Trek Geeks for all the details. Absolutely. Dan, next week or next episode, I should say, we're actually going to bring you the audio of the next Thursday Night Geeks, just kind of like we did this week.

[01:11:33] We'll get into recording some special, some unique content for Trek Geeks after that. But this is an important discussion that we've been putting off for a while and it kind of started here. So we figured we should drop it here. Yeah, absolutely. We're going to have our senior producer of Trek Geeks, Jude Catman, will be on as a special guest, as well as some phenomenal people. The Tenudos are just going to throw it out right now. We've had them on before. They've been involved in Trek Talks. Just a fantastic discussion.

[01:12:02] We're going to have a young person's opinion and vision, as well as older people, about whether or not Star Trek has passed us by. It's going to be a great conversation. It's going to be fun over on Thursday Night Geeks. We're going to bring it to you here on Trek Geeks. And then we're going to get into some new episodes and some new stuff. I'm going to call it right now. I'm going to call out right now here, Bill, that in the next couple of episodes of Trek Geeks. We got to bring back some Cedar Skippet, baby. Let's do it. You get right on that. I will.

[01:12:31] Also important to point out about how Star Trek passed us by. This isn't about us not liking Star Trek. No, no, no. This is a look at the sort of the psyche that goes behind being a Trek fan for a long period of time. And the Tenudos are actually sociologists. I mean, that is their day job. So we're going to examine this from a very human point of view and whether or not our viewing habits change as we get older, as we've potentially observed. Yes.

[01:12:59] So I think it's going to be really cool and a great discussion, but it's definitely not, you know, is Star Trek over? No, it's not. Has Star Trek been ruined? We're looking specifically at our behavior as humans as we consume Star Trek. So that's going to be next time on Trek Geeks. The human adventure is just beginning. The flagship of the Trek Geeks podcast network. I like that. Dan, of course, you know, for even more great Star Trek discussion, the old Trek Geeks podcast

[01:13:25] network has a whole bunch of fantastic shows created by passionate fans who just want to celebrate Gene's vision and this thing called Star Trek, baby. You can find all our podcasts by going to the brand new Trek Geeks dot com or looking on your favorite podcast application of preference. Did you say yield? I did. That was like a minute and a half ago. I know what you were wrapping on. I didn't want to interrupt you because you were doing so good yield.

[01:13:52] And hey, you can follow us on all the relevant social media out there. All those great platforms like Threads and Blue Sky, Facebook, Instagram to simply look for Trek Geeks because Trek Geeks. No one talks Trek like we do when we actually put out an episode. That is a fact. And of course, for all the news on all the Star Trek. So please visit our great friends at Trek News dot net.

[01:14:19] For now, this has been episode number 320 of the Trek Geeks podcast. We do hope you all live long and prosper. OK, Bill, it's time. It's time to go. It's coconut day. Let's go. We got to get out of here. We got to get to the chopper. We got to drink the coconut. Coconut. Almond Joy. Mouse. Let's go. Ah! Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Music for Trek Geeks is provided by Five Year Mission.

[01:14:46] They're writing an original song for each episode of Star Trek. Hear more of their music at fiveyearmission.net. Trek Geeks is a production of Coconut Media Works, executive producers Bill Smith and Dan Davidson. For more great Star Trek discussion, discover the other shows of the Trek Geeks podcast network at trekgeeks.com or find us in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.

[01:15:51] I said now bing bong, governor. Bing bong, governor. Oh, all right. It's a fish and chips, eh? Did you actually say something? Fish and chips, eh, was the last, but the beginning of nothing. It was gibberish. I'm sure Jude could tell us. Exactly. He'll probably scold us for... Us? Well, you. He doesn't scold me. He loves me. At least what I said was intelligible. Well, I'd say big bong, and then I'd said fish and chips, eh?

[01:16:20] So part of it was... No, no, no. You had a whole section in the middle where you literally could have said anything. It was just gibberish. It was... Maybe it was... It was parcel tongue. Sorry, we've been watching Harry Potter, so... No, I know where it's from, idiot. I know. I'm just saying that's why it came into my mind. Speaking of which, I'm getting my next tattoo in a couple weeks. I moved up the date, and I'm getting the dark mark on my forearm.

[01:16:49] I have no idea what that is. It's the logo with the skull with the snake coming out of it that the Death Eaters wear on their arm. The Voldemort followers. Yeah. So can I start calling you dark mark? I got the dark mark on my forearm. Yeah. Yep. Attention, Market Basket shoppers. We have a special now, 32-ounce Dixie Cups on sale,

[01:17:18] 75 cents for 500, right here at your local Market Basket. Go see dark mark. We have not been to Market Basket. Well, no, we actually have been going back to Market Basket in Bedford. Bedford, New Hampshire. And speaking of New Hampshire, we are buried in snow, as we record here today. We had snow for the first time that I can remember. It snowed for 30-plus hours. It started Saturday night and it ended in the middle of the night. The conditions down here

[01:17:48] are just horrifying, Dan. I am. I'm sure. Your face is horrifying. Yesterday, we... Thank you. Yesterday, we had 50-mile-an-hour wind gusts. Tree gusts coming down. I had to dodge them because I was in my shorts in the backyard where there's absolutely no snow. Ah! But the good thing about the snow this year is all... You know, we've gotten more storms this year than in recent memory. They've mostly been small storms, so there really hasn't been anything,

[01:18:17] but it's been very, very light snow, very easy to clear out. And I enjoy going out there and doing that. So we got a new Ego hand snow thrower. Yep. It looks like a big weed whacker thing. It's awesome. I love it. I love it. Did I mention it was 68 degrees here yesterday? You didn't mention that. Good. I hope you get heat stroke. Wow! Yeah, we got those 50-mile-an-hour winds today that you had yesterday

[01:18:45] and out there this afternoon or this morning, late morning, clearing it out. A little windy. Snow coming back in your face. It's always fun. Hang on to your short and curlies. Your face. Whoa! Well, I said your face, so I said your face. Snow coming back in your face. You're working too hard, which is really the first time I've ever said that to you in regard to this show. You're absolutely right. Oh, my gosh. Hey, look what I got. You can't see it for people listening,

[01:19:12] but my San Francisco special fansets Starfleet Academy pin came in. Oh, where's mine? All glitterized. I don't know. All glitterized. I don't care about you, so I got mine. I actually bought mine, so maybe that's why you don't have yours. Did you buy yours? You could have bought me one. I could have done a lot of things. That's not at the top of my list. I could have gone and given myself a heart attack, but I didn't do that either. Damn.

[01:19:45] Yeah, it came out really good. Looks very, very nice. Of course, the Starfleet Academy logo seems to have changed like three or four times over the course of the last few years. Well, I mean, it's got to adapt for the future. Yeah. The 32nd or whatever century they're in in the show. Not even interested in it. Yeah, I know. I'll try it. Oh, yeah. I'll check it out. I'll take a taste me bite. Yeah. What?

[01:20:14] I will take a taste me bite. I don't know. I've never heard that reference before. You never have? No, never. Never heard it. If it's when I was a kid, you know, if there was something on the plate I didn't want to eat, my mom would tell me I had to take a bite to taste it. Oh, OK. Well, yeah, I understand that, but I've never heard the reference taste to me bite. But that's OK. You couldn't put two and two together? I mean, that's math, dude. Come on. Look at it.

[01:20:44] And math is hard. Yes, man. So, yeah. So I got so I got my Starfleet Academy pin, which I'm very excited. And I kind of had a little splurge. I got myself the Back to the Future DeLorean Lego set. Oh. Because it was at its lowest price ever on Amazon. And I said, I've been eyeing it in the store for months. Oh, yeah. And I pulled the trigger. And what's great is you can have you can set it up to be either the Back to the Future from part one, part two, or part three.

[01:21:14] You can have the futuristic DeLorean. You can have the Old West DeLorean. You could have the regular DeLorean. That's cool. It's very cool. I think I'm going to do the Back to the Future 2 with the wheels, the flying wheels, because there's a there's a stand that you can get that it's like flying. So I'm going to probably get that next. And I also this one is this one. I was like, oh, God, I got to do it. And I think you've got it is the Nintendo Entertainment System one with the television that actually you crank it and Mario jumps on the screen.

[01:21:44] I can't wait to do that one. I bought it for my wife back when it first came out because she had just gotten a new job and she was excited and I knew she was really excited for that Lego set. So we bought it and she said she had a blast putting that one together. Yeah, yeah. It'll go right next as you can see behind me. I move some stuff around. I got my Atari 2600 right there. The Lego one that I did, which was probably the funnest build I've done. So I agree. Well, you know what? The Pac-Man one that's over there,

[01:22:13] the Pac-Man arcade was really fun too. So I love these video game system ones that they've come out with over the years. They're really nice. The Batcave shadow box that I did from Lego was by far the most intricate and the most fun build I've ever done. Cool. I loved it. I still need to put my lights on it because my wife bought one of those aftermarket accessory kits so you could light up the Batcave. Like that? Yeah, exactly. And just in case people go looking for them on the Lego website,

[01:22:42] they're not there. They're not there. No. They're not official, but man, they look so cool. They do. The one I just held up, we got the Christmas centerpiece for the holidays last year. Yeah, I got that. It came with a light set so I got the light set for Christmas so I got to do that. But yeah, it's great. I'm not a Batman person but I'll tell you what, if I was ever going to get something for Batman, I think I'd go for the 1960s TV show Lego set, the Batmobile. I have it. You've got it? Oh, nice. It's upstairs. I haven't put it together yet.

[01:23:13] And they should have a kit that you can like have the flame come out of the back of the engine. Wouldn't it be great if you had like a little butane lighter back there? I guarantee you I wouldn't drop that one if I picked it up. No. It's yours. You don't give a damn. That's right. That's right. So change your attitude. I have the tiny 66 Batmobile that they did a handful of years ago that maybe is about eight inches long. And that one's cool.

[01:23:42] It sits on my work desk here at home. But I'm looking forward to putting together that big one. That's going to be amazing. I recently saw an Instagram story and I don't know why anybody would do this. They had this shelving system which looked like rickety crap plastic and they stored all of their Lego sets on it and apparently the weight was a little too much. So there was a video of the aftermath with the thousands and thousands

[01:24:12] of pieces all over the floor when the thing collapsed and every Lego thing fell and shattered. Might want to use better displaced methods than just rickety old plastic shelves. Yeah. Part of me wonders if they did that simply for the views. I'm very suspicious of social media in general these days. Well, that's true. But yeah. But I mean, you know, that's the kind of video

[01:24:41] that would get views and that makes me wonder if they did it just for that. Yeah. I don't know. Good point. I'm cynical. Unfortunately, everything is questionable these days. There's no solid truth to be had anywhere it seems. So, but yeah, I can't wait to start doing those. I still, I still got to finish. Oh my God. So I could give you a list. So I got to finish the runabout. I'm almost done the runabout. I got the wall mount Enterprise D, the painting that Picard had in his ready room

[01:25:10] in the next generation. I've got that giant one. You got that from Blue Bricks. Nice. I got that from Blue Bricks. I can see it somewhere. So I got the hypo spray over there right behind me. I've got the Borg head that I still have to do from Blue Bricks. I did. I just finished the Jem'Hadar fighter, which is underneath my phaser rifle, which you can see over there. But then I got I got those the Lego kit. So I got a lot of Legos put together and I have and no place to put them.

[01:25:39] I also have the Blue Bricks Deep Space Nine to put together because I decided once I heard they lost the license to just buy it. Yes. My daughter-in-law to be just got that for Christmas and she sent me a picture of it the other day of it finished. She finished it and she loves it. She loves Deep Space Nine. Wow. She's very smart. So yeah, and it comes with a little baby defiant that you can like attach to it also. Oh, it's cute.

[01:26:08] So is it the defiant from Little Ship? Oh no, that'd be a runabout. And that would be stupid. That episode is so dumb. Yeah. Honey, I shrunk the audience. Honey, I shrunk the Rio Grande or whatever runabout it was. Don't at me. I just seriously. Yeah. It's still Star Trek. We love it even if we make fun of it. Well, except for Section 31. We know everyone talks about that. Yeah. No one's going to talk about it.

[01:26:38] Have you seen any positive reaction to that movie? Like real positive. I've seen on social media some people who've liked it. Of course, there are some people who like it who just I know hate love really, really bad movies. Yes. But they love them because they think they're great. Not because they think that's this is a first lady. The Trek Geeks podcast. Dan Davidson

[01:27:08] has had a thought occur in his brain. We go now live to Dan Davidson who is fashionably ensconced in his Star Trek office in Southern New Hampshire. Dan, what are you thinking? I'm going to talk to your wife because you have bad movie night at Christmas. So you will end up owning Section 31 because she's going to get that one for you. That might be the top of the list for everything you've had over the years. Even the dinosaurs were crying Nazis. It wouldn't be.

[01:27:39] We've seen some real stinkers. I'll bet you have. And Section 31, although terrible, doesn't really come close to being like qualifying for bad movie night. Yeah. Yeah. Like here's a great example. Anything Tori spelling? Yes. Yes. You brought that up in the Section 31 episode. Yeah. Yeah. Jim Cotta. I don't even know what that is. It's a movie from the 1980s starring U.S. Olympic gold medal gymnast Kurt Thomas where he goes undercover

[01:28:09] to become part of this ancient race for the CIA and to learn its secrets. Another bad one. This is one that I got Kelly this year. It's called Simon Says S-E-Z and it stars Dennis Rodman as an Interpol agent and Dane Cook is his sidekick before Dane Cook ever became famous. Oh my good lord. That sounds awful. The best one

[01:28:38] and this is the worst of all of them is John Stamos' first movie. Oh my god. And I think it's called Never Too Young to Die and he plays the son of a secret agent who was murdered and he assumes that guy's mission. The villain is played by Gene Simmons who portrays an intersex cult leader.

[01:29:10] Okay. All right. It is so so bad. Gene Simmons you want to talk over the top. Everything Gene does is over the top. Okay let's set that aside. This character and this performance alone you'll be watching that going what in the hell was he on? Okay. It is it it is fucking terrible. Have you ever done has you ever

[01:29:39] has either one of you ever gotten glitter for each of either of you the Mariah Carey movie because I'm sure that's awful. Funny story. So there was one year a handful of years ago maybe a little more I bought Kelly glitter wrapped it up put it under the tree. She bought two movies that year. decided one of them was glitter and she gave me the other one. So now she has

[01:30:09] two copies of glitter. Good. That's good. That's awesome. Wow. And the best part was is when she opened it she's like you didn't find this in Rapid Doors and no I bought it. She goes hold on she comes back with a copy of glitter tears streaming down her face from laughing. Oh my god that's funny. So I joke that it's like well you know you're the glitter super fan you've got two copies of glitter here in the house. Yep. That's awesome. Yeah. Fantastic.

[01:30:39] I've never seen it but I can only imagine it's just putrid. Oh it's terrible. It really is. We I've started putting them all on our Plex server so just as is its own category bad movies so we can keep track of which ones we got. But that's great. My wife has a running spreadsheet every year with with which ones we got and who got the worst movie. Yep. You actually had Xanadu on that list. Yes I bought it for for Kelly because she hates I love that movie.

[01:31:07] She hates musicals. I see. Okay. Part of this is knowing your audience. I was I was a huge I was a huge crush on Olivia Newton John when I was a kid so yeah. But let's be honest about this. Xanadu is terrible. It's good. Terrible. No no it's terrible. If you look at it objectively as a movie how much money did they have to throw at Gene Kelly to be in this movie and look like he was having a good time. Yeah.

[01:31:37] I mean it's it is God awful. Like your face. Oh wow. Okay. Thanks. If I remember correctly. Yes. It's funny that as we're recording this outtake for tonight's episode and we're talking about Xanadu Olivia Newton John's character name was Hera. Isn't that funny? That's very true. That's very true. I'm going to read through some of the other I know that

[01:32:07] the outtakes running long but at this point we're talking about bad movies. I don't care. But here are some of the other winners. that appear in our bad movie list. A terrible movie called best friend from heaven which is about a dog who comes back from heaven to get two people together in love and the dog is voiced by Chris Christopherson. From blade.

[01:32:36] Old Chris Christopherson. Yeah. I think this is what pushed him over the edge. A movie that that many sci-fi fans will take issue with but I maintain this movie is terrible from start to finish the adventures of Buckaroo Banzai across the eighth dimension. It don't bother. Don't have any attention. He's a brain surgeon, a heart surgeon. He plays rock and roll.

[01:33:05] I is just it is horrible. The amazing mandroid movie. Is that like the Fennelots from the Bionic Woman? No, let me read this. In his hidden laboratory deep in Russia, Dr. Carl Zimmer has invented the mandroid, a humanoid robot which follows the motions of a man in a special control suit. He has offered the invention to the USA who have sent Smith and Waite from the CIA for inspection. However, Zimmer's

[01:33:34] partner Drago has different plans and wants to sell mandroid to the military. The night he tries to steal the mandroid, he becomes exposed to the highly toxic super con. But can he flee? No, but he can flee and won't give up on mandroid even though he's terribly disfigured. Oh my God. Drago. Ivan Drago. And then there's

[01:34:03] Iron Sky as we talked about earlier, Nazis and dinosaurs. Dolly Parton's Smoky Mountain Christmas. Oh boy. Also featuring Rene O'Bare Chinoan directed by Henry Winkler. Ah, my goodness gracious. Dollman. Huh. Dollman. Which is about an interstellar cop named Brick Bardo who is forced to land on Earth. He's regular sized on his home planet, but here he's only the size of an

[01:34:33] action figure. Oh my God. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Please, please stop. Oh no. Killer sofa. Oh, I saw the jacket. You showed me the jacket for that one. Yeah. Which is you might guess is about a killer sofa. Killer sofa. Yeah. Velocipastor. If you had to guess, what do you think it's about? Oh, a dinosaur priest or a priest who turns into a dinosaur.

[01:35:03] Bing, bing, bing right there. You got it. Jenny McCarthy in Santa Baby. Oh my. Yep. Tori Spelling in A Carol Christmas. This is bad. Coyote Ugly. Oh, I saw that. I thought it was awful. Here's another winner. Barb Wire. Oh, with Pam Anderson. Never saw it. It is. It's almost as bad as Section 31.

[01:35:33] Oh, that's pretty bad. Howard the Duck. Leah Thompson. Uh-huh. Yep. Star Trek tie right there. Yes, yes. And then lastly, so far, Kiss meets the Phantom. Gene Simmons again. Yeah. I'm sensing a pattern that Gene Simmons has been a lot of crappy movies. You can determine that if you will. That's up to you. But our outtake now is over 20 minutes. This is amazing.

[01:36:03] That's pretty good. Well, we haven't done an episode in a while. It's true. You froze. You're still frozen. Did your internet cut out? Now, this may be a good place to stop it. So, well, since Dan's not here, let me just say, this is the best part of the show, the one without him. So, we will get ready to do this. We'll talk to you all

[01:36:32] next week. Dan, you suck. Love you guys. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.