Going Boldly with Bruce Horak

[00:00:12] Oh my gosh, Trek Geeks is proud to have Fansets as our presenting sponsor. Fansets is the place for amazing pin collectibles with over 500 officially licensed Star Trek pins with new releases every month. Stay tuned for a special discount code that'll be good on your next order over there at fansets.com. Get there, go there now. Fansets, our pins, have character.

[00:00:37] This is J.G. Hertzler, General Martok on Star Trek Deep Space Nine. And you are listening to the biggest little show this side of the Alpha Quadrant. It's the Trek Geeks Podcast with Bill Smith and Dan Davidson.

[00:00:59] Good Thursday evening, one and all. Bill Smith here alongside the five time Grammy winner Dan Davidson for another edition of Thursday Night Geeks. Dan, we're excited to be here. This is we've been looking forward to this all week. So we've been waiting all week for Thursday night. Oh, how about that? But I'm about to turn on something very special in the chat right now. And it's not you.

[00:02:17] If you look in the lower right hand corner. Boom. People are going to start chatting and it's going to show up right there in the screen. Awesome. Because now everybody will be able to not pull away from your handsome face to type and look in the chat window. It's right there. Look at that. You're on screen. That's fantastic. Good to see you, man. Yeah, we're very excited.

[00:02:43] First of all, I do have to apologize to all our viewers. It was my issue that caused us to have to be late today. I'm going to tell a story because it's kind of funny. And like technology today I thought was good, but apparently not. So my wife and I recently got a new used car. We had a Mazda CX-5 and we decided to go with a newer one. The newer one's got the tricked out seats with the air cooling, which is awesome.

[00:03:08] And the HUD display, which I love. It's really nice. And she is a member of a credit union in Maine that we love. We've given them all kinds of business over the years for any cars we do. And we wanted to refinance through that bank. New Hampshire and Maine are very stupid in that they still use the three page carbon copy title applications.

[00:03:33] Okay. So because we had to do this application, we had to physically be there to sign it. We couldn't do it digitally. It's too much of a cost associated and penalties if it's late, if they mail it. So we had to drive up to Maine from Merrimack this afternoon to be in the bank for no more than four minutes. We drove all the way up in downpouring rain.

[00:04:01] 100% of the time traffic was crazy. We're at the bank for four minutes tops and then we came home. That's why we're starting a little bit late tonight, but come on technology, Maine and New Hampshire government, get your shit together and make digital forms for your titles. Okay. Thanks. Bye-bye. Maine, the way life should be. Yes. It's a New Hampshire title though. Yeah, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. So that's why we're late, but it's all good. We made it home safely. So yeah.

[00:04:31] I think I'm potentially coming from the only place in the country that's not raining. It was beautiful and 80 degrees today. Nice. I'm glad because it's been miserable here. They are actually calling for the possibility of snow in the northern part of the state tonight. It's fricking May 22nd. It's Memorial Day weekend. Here in the United States, that is. Yes. So to get back on track, sorry about that, but that's why we're late.

[00:04:58] Yes, we are very excited, buddy, for what we're going to be doing tonight. We actually had a conversation with this amazing person earlier in the week, which we're going to bring to our viewers today. And that's Bruce Horak from Star Trek Strange New Worlds. Of course, he played Hemmer, one of my favorite characters. And we're going to be talking to him not only about Star Trek and his career, but also about a very awesome project that he is in the middle of working on right now

[00:05:23] with a fundraiser to make a documentary about his one of one of the most wonderful things about his career is his ability to paint portraits and his artistry. So yeah, very excited to be talking about that tonight. So and you know, in full disclosure, in order to be able to fit into Bruce's schedule, we did have to pre tape this interview. So it will be displaying on screen as it happened. And Dan and I will be in the chat here on YouTube to chat with you all while it's going on.

[00:05:52] Kind of like we did for the the interview or the conversation we had with Jude Tattman. Yes, just a couple of months ago. So but fear not. Dan and I will be back live right after that interview. And, you know, we'll talk about some stuff and we'll wrap things up. So, Dan, I have a surprise for you. OK, oh, God, this is something that is in a way.

[00:06:18] Let's just say it's it's my idea come to fruition. OK, I'm telling you about this after the fact. OK. So I received something here into my grubby little hands in eastern North Carolina today. And I thought the best way to spring it on you was to shoot myself a little home video. Oh, OK. So I'm going to blow this up here right now.

[00:06:47] Oh, boy, I got two of you on screen. I don't know if I can handle that. And then I hit play. So you just listen. OK. Hey, Dan, it's me. I wanted to share with you a little surprise for Vegas this summer. Oh, God. I know you didn't exactly know about this, but I think you're going to approve of the final product. And no, it's not my sliding door. Oh, my God. Oh, my. What?

[00:07:17] A new booth backdrop for Las Vegas highlighting Thursday Night Geeks. Look at that. This looks pretty awesome. Dude. Hope you dig it, buddy. Dude. That is fantastic, man. It's me. No, I don't want to see you again. Oh, shut up. That's awesome, man. Nicely done. Thank you. Fantastic. And it's going to look awesome in the vendor's room in Vegas. That's great.

[00:07:48] Yeah, it's eight feet tall. I think we figured out it is. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah, it's eight feet tall. I think it's about eight feet wide. Yeah. And the color on it is just brilliant. I mean, I hope to be able to do that outside on my lawn because I have a giant backyard. But it was so windy today when I tried to do it. It was blowing away. Got you this great thing, but it's gone now. Yeah.

[00:08:16] I guess at that point, it would have looked good in probably one of my neighbor's roofs. That's pretty awesome. That's awesome, man. Thank you. That's going to look great. I'm very excited for it. And it's fun putting that thing together. So it'll be even better. Well, it goes up in like 15 seconds. I know. It's a really great part about it. Yeah. And you're not going to be there for it. So that's right. I'm not. I'm not going to be there for the setup. That's true. Yeah. You'll be fine. Yeah. That's right. Whatever. It's going to be me and the fansets. I'm coming in the next day.

[00:08:51] I'm going to be getting in earlier than I was originally, but still not in time to help you set up. So sorry. Oh, and I'm sorry. We got to call this out. Jim's only a few minutes late, everybody. We're all saying it's okay. We can get started now. What are you doing? You missed the big reveal. Jim. Oh, yeah, you did. I'm drinking water. I'm back on my GLP bullshit. Okay. Had some side effects this week that are not too pleasant. Oh, good. Yay. Yeah. I can only imagine.

[00:09:20] And so you don't have to tell me. I'm not going to. Okay. No, I'm drinking one of my summer favorites. And it is blueberry vodka with pink lemonade and blueberries. It's a blueberry lemonade. Yum, yum drink. I'm sorry. Blueberry lemonade. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum.

[00:09:49] I've been making this one for years. I love it. It's one of my favorite summer ones. It's very refreshing. It's very crisp. Yeah. You would have thought if you've been making it that long, you would have actually come up with a better name. Blueberry lemonade is what I usually call it, but I decided to have some fun with it. I think now it must be officially called the blueberry lemon yum, yum, yum drink. Blueberry lemonade, yum, yum drink. Yep. Danism. I love it. And you'll have to put together a recipe card for that for next week's Thursday night geeks. Very, very easy.

[00:10:18] It'll be your experience with Canada. Oh, that's true. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. That's a great comment. He may have shown up late, but he brought quality. Do we want to know what's in it that makes it the yum, yum? I would have to say just the mixture of it all together. I hope that all is. Pink lemonade's good. Sugar-free pink lemonade, I might add also. See, now all I can think of is- Zero sugar, rather.

[00:10:47] Is non in Star Trek Discovery Season 2 when she and Georgiou are going off to fight control. And she's like, yum, yum. And I'm like, one, I hate that line. But two, it fits your stupid drink. Stupid drink. Wow. Okay. Okay. It's not Crown Blueberry, Ross, but it's just regular old Stoli Blueberry Vodka. But Crown Blueberry? I don't even think I've ever heard of that. That might be really great. I would think that's very good. Okay. I trust Ross. I trust Ross more than I trust you.

[00:11:17] I don't doubt that for a second. Is this, you know, we were calling the segment, What Are You Drinking? Should we start calling it Yum, Yum? Absolutely. That is the new title for the drink reveal. Can we get a vote on this from the audience in chat? Yeah. What should we call the What Are You Drinking segment? Should we call it What Are You Drinking? Or should we call it Yum, Yum? Please respond and comment. And we will go with Vox Populi. Oh, wow. Geez.

[00:11:45] I don't know if that's Greek or Latin. It's Latin. Okay. The Yum, Yum Corner. That's a good one. The Yum, Yum Corner. Yum, Yum Corner. Settle on up to the Yum, Yum bar. Okay. Yum, Yum is running away with Yum, Yum. I wouldn't say it's running away. There are three comments. It's all of them so far. No, one says not Yum, Yum. Oh, I didn't see Ryan. Because you can't read. Come on, man.

[00:12:12] Ryan may like Star Trek Generations, but he's spot on on this. Ryan, you just hurt me. You just hurt me a lot. Oh, okay. Never mind. So now it's okay. Whatever. Well, Dan, let's do this. Let's talk about some pins at the set of the fans. Yes. I love it. We can do that. And then we'll go on and we'll start the conversation with Bruce so we can get everybody the content

[00:12:40] they really want to see instead of people lighting us up in the comments. They didn't get to the topic until 15 minutes in. Not our audience, mind you, but people who just cover the show. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. Dan. Yes. It wouldn't be truck geeks. It wouldn't be Thursday night geeks. It wouldn't be Vegas without the support of our dear, dear friends and our Star Trek family at fansets. We can't thank them enough for being our presenting sponsor all over the place. Everywhere.

[00:13:10] And we will not ever have another sponsor like fansets. They are the best. They're our family. They're our friends. Like you said, can't wait to see them in Vegas. They have over 500 built. Do you know they have over 500 officially licensed Star Trek fans? Did you know that? Well, what? Yeah, exactly. They got new stuff coming out all the time. Not this week, but that's because they had a bunch of stuff last week. And we're just going to let everybody know what they came out with last week. There's some great stuff right now.

[00:13:38] Micro Crew Ensign Jennifer Shrian from Star Trek Lower Decks. Awesome pin. I love the Lower Decks pins. They are so awesome. Also from fansets new in the past week and a half or so, the Starfleet Academy logo for the new show coming out, which is pretty awesome. Is that going to be the actual logo for the show? I don't know yet. I don't think so. That's okay. That's all right. We'll go with it. This is the 90s era trek. Which I love. I love that.

[00:14:08] So it may use some version of a typeface like this. Yeah. Looks really good. We'll just call it the Starfleet Academy pin. The Starfleet Academy pin. I love it. And finally, you know, this is one that people have been asking for for a long time. And I know that fansets are like, oh my gosh, so many people want this. And it's finally out. It is the Star Trek Kelvin Universe Sciences Delta. And you can get that in both pin and magnet form right on over there at fansets.com. Check them out. Get all. They also have a new. I'm going to.

[00:14:38] I'm throwing this right out here, Bill. And you don't have an image for it. They also have one of the Cool Water Productions latest signature series. It's also available. And it's a twofer. It's Doug Jones and Tara Rosling is as autographed. And it's amazing. And it looks great. And you got to go get it right now. Wow. Yes, you do. Get all those pins. In fact, put them in your cart. Put a whole bunch of other stuff in your cart. You can put one of these TMP Deltas that I'm wearing.

[00:15:06] You can put the Star Trek Picard Admirals Delta that Dan's wearing. Or maybe all 47 versions of the future imperfect Delta that fansets has. And go to checkout. Enter the special discount code TREKgeeks. That's TREKgeeks in all capital letters with no spaces to get 10% off your entire order with fansets.com, Dan. 10%. And of course, when you spend more than 30 bucks on fansets.com, you know what you get, Dan? Do you know what you get? I know what they get.

[00:15:35] What do they get, Dan? No stamps. I'm just kidding. You get free shipping in the United States for any order over $30. Free shipping. All you do is say two words, free and shipping. And say them together. Like, free shipping. Like, excited. But no, he went and screwed it up. So there you go, Dan. Finish the spot. That's what I do. Fansets. Our pins have character. And we thank our friends at Fansets for being the presenting sponsor of Thursday Night Geeks.

[00:16:05] So, you have issues. I do. I do. So, it was such a joy to sit down with Bruce and to, you know, have this conversation about what he's doing. And I don't think that I expected such an amazing conversation to talk about a documentary, quite frankly. He was so incredible to talk to.

[00:16:36] Funny as hell. He's got some great stories. He's got that, first of all, the voice. I mean, just the voice. Anybody who knows Hammer, that voice is just powerful. And what he's doing really means something. And is very important. Especially in the world we're in today. So, I went into this conversation looking forward to talking to a guy who was a great character in Star Trek and got a whole lot more. And it was a fantastic conversation. And I'm sure everybody's going to love it.

[00:17:04] Yeah, I think so too. So, for the next 39, 40 minutes, Dan and I will be in chat with you all as the video plays. And then we'll be back right afterwards. But please enjoy this amazing conversation with Bruce Horak.

[00:17:41] You know, Bill, by far, as you know, one of my favorite characters and one of my favorite things about Strange New Worlds was the introduction of the character of Hammer. Great character, played by a great actor. The first legally blind person to ever be cast in Star Trek playing a blind character. Loved the dialogue he had. He was probably my favorite character of the first season. And then they freaking went and killed him. Damn corn eggs.

[00:18:12] FML, right? But even though Hammer is no longer with us, the man who brought this incredible character to life certainly is. And he has something amazing happening right now. Bruce Horak is an accomplished actor, musician, stage performer, and now a portrait artist working on an amazing documentary called Boldly Going. Now, this feature will chronicle Bruce's journey and follow him as he meets others who have overcome barriers to find creative freedom and purpose.

[00:18:40] And in each encounter, Bruce paints a portrait of the person he encounters, creating a moment of connection captured on canvas. Now, here to talk about this great new film, the fundraiser to get it over the finish line, and maybe even a little Hammer love. It is the amazing Bruce Horak. And Bruce, welcome aboard, man. Thank you for joining us. Welcome to Trek Geeks. Thank you so much for having me. Wow. Thank you. And you summed up exactly the project. There's really nothing more to say. We're out then. We're out.

[00:19:10] It's not too hard to take it straight from the Indiegogo page. But that's okay. I'll take credit for it. No, it's great to have you here, man. Right on. Thank you. As I mentioned to you before we started recording, I did have the opportunity to meet you very quickly in Vegas last summer to get your autograph. And to be able to sit here and talk to you is awesome. Because as Bill knows, Hammer was my favorite character in season one. You're kind of like the auto slash data, maybe. I'm thinking of Stranger Things New Worlds, at least in my mind, in terms of the character

[00:19:39] that I'd most like to hang out with. Oh, wow. So I'm very excited to have you here. And before we get too much into it, I do want to say one of the things that's great to be here talking to you, your voice is very distinct. It was great to listen to Hammer doing all of his talk and all the great banter that he had with any member of the crew. It's amazing to look at you now and talk to you and think, wow, when you were on Stranger

[00:20:05] Worlds, there is nothing about that character that makes me recognize you except your voice, the prosthetics that were done for your character were just incredible. Yeah. Well, that's all. And thank you for saying so. And that's all due to the fine craft of prosthetic work. And, you know, Star Trek over the years, I mean, there's been so many distinct characters.

[00:20:29] And the fellow that designed Hammer, the look, when I got to put it on for the camera test for the first time, took five and a half hours to get into all those pieces. Wow. And pieces that got glued on and there was a wig and a cap and ears and even stuff on my hands. Like the night before my first day, I think I got acquainted with a product called Nair to get rid of the hair on my arms. There's a little insider for you. But oh my goodness, it just took hours.

[00:20:59] And they repainted him and made him look just right for camera. And it was really a joy to work in that stuff. My background in theater, I do a lot of mask work. And I love doing that because you can disappear into this other body in the shape. And so to get on screen and get to essentially employ that work in working with masks and prosthetics, which is, you know, it's like mask plus because it's glued to your face and it does actually move a little bit.

[00:21:28] But yeah, it really is an incredible art form and there are unsung heroes in my books. So I'm giving a shout out to Chris Bridges and Shane Zander. Yeah. Thank you for spending like half your lives with me in a makeup trailer and listening to Frank Zappa and stories of The Thing. That sounds like a hell of a time. I'm not going to... Actually, it was. I might be there. For a geek like myself or a nerd like me, like A, I was on Star Trek.

[00:21:56] So already, you know, boundaries crossed. And then, you know, just getting to spend all the time and just geek out with your prosthetics guys. I mean, it was at the height of the pandemic when everything was social distance. So it's like other humans. Hey, let's hang out. Oh my God. Yeah. It was a heck of a time. Good fun. Now, speaking of the makeup, I mean, because, you know, obviously it's here. It's top of mind.

[00:22:20] Did that make it any more difficult to see than normal for you? Oh boy. Yes. Because I couldn't wear a contact lens. I normally will wear a lens to augment my vision. But I was playing at the low end of my visual acuity throughout that. No glasses, no contact lenses, nothing. And so they would, and I'm working with about 9% vision. So my right eye is artificial.

[00:22:48] And my left eye, I have a very small window that is not scarred by the cancer that I had as a baby. And plus I had a cataract when I was four and a half years old. So that surgery on top of, I see floaters and flashers, which is like flashing light, not indecent people in raincoats. Although in Toronto, you never know. Anyway, but that's what I had been working with most of my life and getting onto set. It was, I was really just playing, playing a full blind guy and then pretending that I

[00:23:17] could see better because of the telepathy. And boy, it was a real, it was a real maze to wander through as that character was being developed and thinking about, you know, he can, his eyes don't work, but he has this sensory perception. So he had to be able to move through space with confidence. And then the crew on that set and the directors, they just worked with me to make sure I was safe. I knew where the camera was going to be, where the eyeline had to be, where the other character,

[00:23:43] where to turn my head and, and the specificity of it was, yeah, it was really thrilling. I mean, film and TV is a whole other beast from, from theater. So it was a real learning curve for me for sure. Yeah. That makes me wonder. I mean, so, you know, during the blocking of a scene, you know, what does that do for, you know, if care, if character has to go from, you know, spot a to spot B does that make it even more perilous in a sense?

[00:24:09] Well, what I would do here's, here's my on-camera tricks for the visually impaired. What I would do is in the blocking, because we would block the scene without the crew there, they would sort of stand off to the side and we would get our movements in. And I would walk it three, four, five times, just the path I had to go in order to make it look like when they were rolling and I would move from A to B. And they would often give me larger points on the floor to aim for, what do they call them? Their marks.

[00:24:39] They would also use tactile things like sandbags or it's like, oh, you know, when you're standing next to this particular juicy looking jujubey looking button, that's, that's your mark or whatever. But they were really patient. And there was only one incident where I walked into a camera, but that was only happened once. And it was, it never happened again. And it was entirely my fault. I really wasn't on top of it. We're blaming Bill.

[00:25:06] Everything's my fault on this show, Bruce. You know, it's perfect. You get used to it. Well, I'm sorry, Bill, but it is a day. Yeah. You're going to love, you're going to love us, man. So that makes me, I have two questions about that then as you're talking about it's like, wow, that's interesting. A. Have you been a Trek fan before you actually got this role? And if so, did you know the backstory about the Andorians and the Aina from, from Enterprise to help you with the role?

[00:25:36] And B. Did they know they were going to do what they did to you at the beginning when you started or did you halfway through and how pissed off were you? Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, Star Trek is in my DNA. It was part of my childhood for sure. And I had, I was aware of the Enar. First time I watched Enterprise, it was, oh, this is kind of an interesting character. And then they kind of disappeared into, I don't know, season

[00:26:02] seven of Enterprise. It's all about the Enar, actually. Oddly, that's where Hammer makes his first appearance. Yeah. And, and honestly, when I got the second or third or fourth audition for Hammer, I met with Henry Alonso Myers and he told me the arc of the season and what was going to happen with Hammer. He said, this is initially, I mean, when they sent me the shoot dates, it was one episode. Oh.

[00:26:28] And then chatting with, with Henry later, it was like, no, it's going to be a few episodes. We're going to make him a fan favorite. Uhura is going through a whole thing about whether or not she wants to join Starfleet. He's going to show her the way he's going to teach her to open herself to people and make a family in Starfleet. And then he's going to make a noble sacrifice. That's as much as I knew. So I spent five months shooting on that. And I spent all of that time, just fingers

[00:26:57] crossed going, please don't kill me or, uh, give me a good, cool death. I just wanted it to be cool. Yeah. Like if you got to go, I mean the dream, I mean, one episode of Star Trek was a dream and a half and suddenly I'm doing a season five episodes and, uh, yeah. And when I got the, that, the, the script for the final line, well, I guess episode nine for Hammer, um, I was so happy that

[00:27:23] he went the way he did. It was, uh, it was noble. It was, uh, gracious. And you know, he's the one who taught Spock that this is what you got to do. So ultimately I take credit for everything after Wrath of Khan. Naturally. Yeah. As, as, as you do, uh, for someone who's had five episodes of Star Trek. So it must've been pretty exciting for you to be involved in that

[00:27:51] first season and make that ultra sec extra sec ultra sacrifice. Hmm. But what was it like knowing after that or not knowing at the time that I'm going to come back as zombie hammer and then I'm going to come back as a singing Klingon captain. Yeah. You know, I, uh, when did we found out about season two after the premiere of season one in New York? So that, that was really just the ramp up. And

[00:28:21] and, uh, I thought this was a, it was a chance for me to meet the cast where I wasn't wearing prosthetics. Uh, some of whom even recognize me by my voice, I would assume. Um, but it was kind of, it was that bittersweet kind of, this is a great celebration and a farewell. And then, you know, a few months later getting the call to come back for, for season two and do a couple of episodes. I, I was over the moon. I didn't know, like they said, well, potentially hold you for two,

[00:28:49] two episodes. And so I, when I did the first episode with Uhura and all those scenes, I thought, oh, that's great. Like a little zombie action. Awesome. And maybe they'll have hammer and another flashback. And then they started making noise about a musical. And I was just like, what really? They want me in a musical? Like his hammer singing, what's going on? And then it was, no, it was going to be this Klingon. I'm like, Oh, and it just got better and better and better. And then I heard the music and they've got, they said, Oh, we don't know if it's going to be a K-pop

[00:29:18] thing or a Klingon opera thing. We think they're both great ideas. So we're going to rehearse you to do both. We're going to record both. They shot both. And when it came out, I got to see like which one they had chosen. And, uh, again, disappearing into the prosthetics. Thank you, Shane Xander and Christopher Bridges. Uh, it, it was just such a dream. And, uh, the day on set where, where I got to, you know, put on the full Klingon gear with the eye patch and just immediately thought of Plummer

[00:29:48] and what he would, what he would do with our Garkog. I wonder if they're related. I, I hope so. Um, anyway, it's, uh, it was just a real treat and, uh, and, and really the, the badge that I put on my actor sashes that even my brother didn't know that I was the Klingon. Oh, that's amazing. Mm. Yeah. So that's, that's a win. That's a win right there. If you can, if you can fool

[00:30:14] brother, Steve, you're doing it all right. Have you had to bust out dance moves at any point since then? Uh, had to, or just done it anyway. Okay, sure. Oh yeah. Careful. Dan will have you doing it here. If you know, if you're not, uh, I may, I may just call out for dance at any time. It's funny. They, they choreographed all the background dancers and they just let me do whatever. So that's amazing. Oh, that's great. That was good. It was good to see you. I know

[00:30:44] you can't say anything. I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed for something. So we'll leave it at that. Something always keep your fingers crossed for something. I'm doing it now. Right. That's right. Good. Good. We just, we actually just got our first batch of screeners for strange new world season three today. You didn't. I haven't had a chance to dive in yet. Um, but I mean, it's been almost two years since the season two finale two full years and I'm dying to know what

[00:31:13] happens. Yeah. And cliffhanger was something, wasn't it? Yeah. So until July 17th, because I imagine I'm probably going to check this out tomorrow, I'm going to have to like, not say a damn word because I will have knowledge that everybody else doesn't have. You know what that's like, no Bruce. I do. Keeping secrets is hard. It's so hard. It's stressful. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you want to celebrate and, and, and share it with people, but also you don't

[00:31:42] want to spoil it. Right. Yeah. Right. I don't think, I, I hope I haven't had any of those moments where I've, I've been the, the leaker or the spoiler of things, but you know, Frank's job. Frank says that. I understand that. Yeah. And the funny part is, is that, you know, the person who tweeted out about it is actually a really good friend of ours and is the drummer in a star Trek band or was the drummer in a star Trek band that has

[00:32:08] a podcast on our network. So, you know, it's, we kind of had a sick, you know, one degree of separation there from that particular leak. And so it's like, yeah, and the drummer got me. I'm like, well, technically breaks, you've got yourself. So, so let's chat about the, about the film and the fundraising, because I think this is an exciting idea. What was

[00:32:34] it that made you want to do a documentary? Well, this is a project I've been working on since April of 2011. And it evolved very slowly over the time to, to be go from being one-on-one sittings and me painting portraits to in order for me to express how I see. So a friend of mine

[00:33:00] asked me, you know, I was in my mid thirties at this point and I finally accepted that I needed a white cane and started using the white cane and got kind of got over myself a little bit. And it changed my life. It really opened up the world to me. It gave me a confidence that I had been losing slowly. It opened the world a little bit again. I was really starting to, to close off

[00:33:24] from going out at night or going out into strange places and traveling on my own. And, uh, by a fluke of, uh, an audition, actually, and my agent called me and said, you, we've got this audition for a movie. It's called blindness and it's about pandemic and everybody in the world goes blind. You'd be great for it, but you don't really look blind. And I had spent my whole life trying to hide it from people. You know, I'd, I'd gone to an integrated school and I would kind of hide at the back of the classroom

[00:33:52] with a little telescope. And, you know, I got learned computer literacy quite early on so I could keep ahead of things by typing. Um, but I really didn't want people to know that I was visually impaired. And, uh, when I got this audition call, it was like, well, I'm a client at the CNIB, the Canadian national Institute for the blind, and they offer all sorts of programs. So I went there and I got my very first white cane. I said to the guy, can I get a white cane? And I'm a client who said, Oh yeah, you get the first one's free. He says, uh, like it's like,

[00:34:21] it's a drug. It's all your friends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tell all your friends. Uh, but, but as a client, you have to have mobility training. So they send this mobility specialist to my apartment in Toronto. I was living on Yonge street at the time and gave me my white cane. And we walked up the street together and she showed me how to hold it and how to move it in front. And you can stand up with your head back and your, your shoulders back, your head up, and you can move through the world like a confident human being. And it was the first time in my whole life that I just felt this

[00:34:49] incredible confidence and moving through the world. And suddenly things started to open up. And when this old dear friend of mine saw me with my white cane, he's like, what is going on? Did something happen? Like I had no idea. And at that point we sat down together and I tried to paint his portrait to show him how I see. And over the course of that first year, I got really inspired by this process. I was learning how I see by interpreting it for sighted people, but it was

[00:35:13] this communication and con and conversation around disability about vision, about perspective. And I started to, to really open myself up to this portrait project. And what was really fascinating about it was I was sharing my own story for the context of it, but I was learning about the people I was sitting with and, uh, capturing that moment in time on canvas. Over the first year, I finished 365 portraits and the Kelowna art gallery in Kelowna, BC installed 200 of them

[00:35:43] on one big wall. It's a huge grid. And it looked like from my perspective, because of my limited vision, I had to go all the way to the back of the gallery to see them all at once. And, uh, it looked like little pixels, like a really pixelated image. And you could see like one big face at one point in the 200 faces that I had painted. And it was just this kind of, yeah, it really flipped me from my left to my right brain and back and forth. And, uh, I've continued to do this. Um,

[00:36:10] my goal is to paint 1000 portraits and I've just finished portrait number 750. Um, 749 was me sitting with William Shatner about a month and a half ago. And, uh, I sat to do a couple of portraits of, of Mr. Shatner for his charity horse auction, which is happening at the end of may. Those are being auctioned off. One of them's online right now. And the other one's being auctioned at the event signed by myself and William Shatner. And I got to tell him a bit of my own

[00:36:39] story of growing up watching Trek reruns and going to Stratford, Ontario and working at the festival there. And we had all sorts of connections and conversations and talking about accessibility and assistive devices, at which point he pulls out his phone and asks it a question and it responds to him and it's just such a captain Kirk moment. Um, but as I was sharing the story, he kind of offhandedly said, well, this would make a really great documentary. It would inspire people maybe

[00:37:07] to use assistive devices and canes and things like that. And, and it's like, someone should make a documentary about it as luck would have it. Uh, Ballinran entertainment in Stratford has been moving this project slowly down the field towards, uh, a reality, which is to document the last 250 of my 1000 portraits to follow me as I encounter people who, you know, a have an interest in having a portrait painted because not everyone wants that. Sure. People are very reticent to sit for a portrait,

[00:37:37] but also just the, the conversations with people around access, around disability, around, uh, the creative life. How have you overcome it? Why have you overcome these adversities in order to pursue this creative life and to hear some of those stories that can at times be overlooked? Um, and really just to, to question the notion of, of having to cure a disability. How do you function with it? Uh, how do

[00:38:02] you, how do you move forward with this thing instead of having to leap over it or smash through it? Um, yeah. Is there, is there a more creative way that we can move forward? And as we see in technology and in, uh, architecture, for instance, if you design for disability, everyone benefits, you know, and in art, I think the same could be explored. If we, if we create with disability,

[00:38:31] if we create, um, accepting our disabilities and, and using those things, how do we move the process forward? In my first 250 portrait or 365 portraits, the first year, after I would finish a sitting with someone, I would give them my heavy prescription bifocal glasses, which are like a plus 15 on the, and, and I would have them put my glasses on, close one eye and put the canvas about a, you know, an inch

[00:38:56] and a half or maybe less, uh, close to their face and look at it through this magnified lens. It, um, I'm told that it gave almost a 3d effect as the canvas was moved away from the, from the eye and the, you would see the distortion shift and you could actually see like almost a 3d figure there. Wow. Um, yeah, I really, I get inspired by shifting perspective. Uh, I think it moves us towards empathy and compassion when you can see the world through someone else's point of view.

[00:39:25] And, uh, I'm just, yeah, I'm really inspired to, to work on boldly going. Um, I've been very, um, what's the word, uh, not thrilled just to be able to expand this portrait project. As I said, it's, it started with a one-on-one portrait session and then it moved to, I traveled all over the country and worked on these portraits. And then when the pandemic hit, uh, I moved to zoom and then star Trek happened and suddenly it wasn't just friends and colleagues. It was people from all

[00:39:55] over the world who have incredible stories. Uh, a lot of connections with star Trek, obviously, because, uh, you know, hammer's a legacy now, like there's, he's part of that canon. He's a part of that mythology and, um, people have really connected not only to his story, but to the story of the artists. Uh, and I count myself as one of them, uh, behind the creation of, uh, what 60 years of

[00:40:19] canon. It's, uh, it's, it's very, um, yeah, it's very thrilling. So that's boldly going. And we've got an Indiegogo campaign that's rocking until mid June and, um, open to see this thing to fruition. It's awesome. I love it. That's pretty cool. Um, I do have to, uh, I throw out a bill. I will, I'd love for you to take the next question, but I do need to apologize, Bruce. Um, in your introduction, I misinterpreted the information that I read earlier. I thought you had recently

[00:40:48] started your painting journey. So I'm sorry for that. It sounds like you can do it a lot longer. Either that or paint real fast. Yeah. A single portrait usually takes, well, in, in, with an in-person sitting, I like to take a bit more time. So that'll be like an hour and a half, but over zoom, I do them in Excel also record the session. So I will take still shots and work the canvas up from that. So those are usually about 40 minutes or so. Uh, but yeah, I mean,

[00:41:17] it started with, with real blocky blotchy, uh, acrylic on canvas. It's getting closer now. I, employ projectors and things like that, and really try to use technology, uh, to the best of my ability. I'm slowly getting better. As you've been going through this process for as long as you have and, and, and working on hitting that goal of a thousand, is there one story in particular

[00:41:43] of someone that you, that you sat with who inspired you in a way that you didn't expect and really was a special one of these, uh, portraits that you did? Yeah. Thank you for that question. Uh, that's not one I often get. Um, well, with my first portrait with Brandon, that certainly started the ball rolling. Um, but I'll say that my first couple of weeks of,

[00:42:10] of doing just two a day, um, I was really just focused on turning these things out and making sure that the sitter had a good time and that, you know, I, I kind of shown them a good time. And I got to Victoria, British Columbia to visit my brother there. And he introduced me to a man named James Gordon near who was in his eighties. When I met him, he was an incredibly prolific, uh, Canadian artist, abstract artist studied with a couple of the members of the group of seven

[00:42:38] who are a very famous group of Canadian artists who painted in 1920 to 1940 or so really like foundational Canadian artists. And here is James Gordon near who agreed to sit for a portrait with me. And, uh, this 80 year old, it was like sitting with my Yoda. He was so full of insight. He also taught painting. So I was learning lots about, you know, studio set up and just everything, but

[00:43:08] when I showed him the portrait at the end, uh, and he was in his wheelchair, he sort of wheeled up to the portrait and I handed it to him and I gave him my glasses to put on, uh, he, he put them on and he, he did the whole thing. And then he kind of took them off and he said, Oh, I really liked them without my glasses on. And he took, turned the portrait upside down to look at it. And then he turned kind of one side and then the other, and he just kept moving it around in his hands.

[00:43:34] And he says, this is how, you know, it works when you flip it around. He says a work of art. You can, you can turn these things and it'll still work as a composition. He says, but that's why it's art. And he said, the difference between art and advertisement is that when you flip Coca-Cola upside down, all you have is an empty Coke. He's not wrong.

[00:43:57] Which I thought was very funny. Um, but also the other thing he, he really, yeah, he instilled me with a couple of phrases that I, I still hear when I'm, when I'm stuck. He says, if you ever get stuck painting, keep painting. That's Jim's voice. And, um, what was the other thing that in portraiture you learn about the artist by what they paint, how they paint, and you'll, you might see the subject,

[00:44:27] but you'll see as much of the artist in that subject. And, you know, I got challenged a couple of weeks ago. Someone was like, what are you doing making a movie about yourself? I mean, there's, there's, there's a bit of a conflict of interest there. Um, but I don't know. I think, uh, uh, I think my, my own story here is just the context to, I hope highlight the, the work of other artists who have in their own ways found strength in their adversity. And I hope that,

[00:44:57] well, I know because having painted 750 portraits that I'm going to be as inspired by every sitting as I hope, uh, to, to spread that inspiration through the lens and onto the screen. Well, I really can't think of anybody better to tell it. I mean, you know, it would be one thing, you know, if it was in the third person, you know, highlighting you, but I think that your own testimonial and your own experience and your own voice, I think lends not just

[00:45:26] credibility, but also, uh, you know, a, a really human attachment to the story. I, I, I, I get it. You know, I mean, somebody is like, well, you know, that asking about the ego part of it, but I mean, aren't we all a little bit ego? I mean, I think that's fine. I don't think there's anything wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's true. And you know, every artist is really, you know, they're exploring their own point of view and they're expressing themselves. I mean,

[00:45:52] that seems to be one of the foundations of the artistic practices, self-expression. Um, but, but what I, I get really inspired by is, is connecting with people and hearing their stories and, and sharing those things. So, uh, if my self-expression is to amplify the voices of others, I feel pretty happy with that. Yeah, absolutely. No, I'm guessing you've painted some of your strange

[00:46:16] new worlds, uh, compatriots, but I have not, I have not. No, no, I, uh, honestly, I'll tell you this in, in, in all honesty, I've been really nervous to reach out. Really? Oh, I'm a scaredy cat. I'm a total scaredy cat. And the reason why I got to sit with William Shatner was basically a dare, uh, a friend of mine who is a fantastic teacher. And one of his mantras is go boldly, make bold choices. And when I

[00:46:45] was in Los Angeles, I sort of was shaking hands, reached out and, you know, he found the email for his assistant and said, would he be interested in sitting for a portrait? And, you know, we kind of launched this, you know, to, to help support his charity and 45 minutes with William Shatner. And, um, my hands were shaking the whole time. And also when I was in LA again, sort of, uh, very nervously, I reached out to Dominic Keating and Connor Trenier and, uh, cause I'm a big fan of

[00:47:13] theirs from enterprise days. And they were one of the first people I met when I got to Las Vegas, my first time. And they just all like handshakes and smiles and welcome to the Trek family. We're going to take care of you. Don't worry. And they were just so welcoming. So, uh, yeah, I sat with Connor and Dominic while I was there as well. And you know, it's funny. Uh, I, I know that, um, strange new worlds, I think season four is shooting right now in Toronto. Yeah. It just

[00:47:39] started like, I'm gosh, it would be so great just to like, Hey, Anson want to sit for a portrait. We're going to see what we can do to at least get one of those cast members on your list. We're going to, we're going to work some stuff behind the scenes. Okay. And on top of that, since you, it was a dare, um, to, to do a William Shatner. Hey, Bruce, Bill and I dare you to do all the strange new worlds portraits. There you go.

[00:48:06] There we go. Now I have to, you know, it's funny. You were talking about, uh, going boldly, you know, and, and taking risks. I I've had, you know, a sort of a lifelong relationship with anxiety. You know, it comes from, you know, having a childhood where I was, uh, where I'm an adult survivor of child abuse. And, you know, I, I have a lot of situational anxiety. Like oddly enough,

[00:48:32] I'm afraid of tall buildings. So Toronto, not on my radar as far as places to go, but I have tattooed on my wrist and you probably won't be able to see it now. Um, but at the world, the words boldly go because it's a, it's a mantra, it's a touchstone. It's a, and it's in the star Trek font, the classic star Trek font. It's right above the Delta, which is behind me on the wall over here. And also my

[00:48:57] shirt. Um, you know, but I, so I, I can appreciate that. It's, it's about finding something within yourself that you didn't necessarily think was there, whether it's courage or, you know, uh, uh, you know, humor or the ability to have a real emotion or whatever it means to an individual. So I can absolutely appreciate, you know, that, that sort of that dare that became, you know, I'm going to reach out to Bill Shatner.

[00:49:25] Sure. And, and, and the thing is on the other side of that fear, there's this incredible experience, you know, had I, had I let the fear stop me, I never would have had that opportunity to, you know, and then they always say, don't meet your heroes, but I have time and time again been like, that's wrong. I think I've been so lucky to meet my heroes. I wish I'd been more eloquent when I did it. Uh, don't we all though? I mean, Oh, it's just the worst.

[00:49:53] I mean, that's the thing about being in star Trek is that as, as a fan boy, I'm often, I come into situations where I I'm completely speechless, like walking onto the enterprise for my camera test. And there I am on the bridge. I mean, like, seriously, I don't know how many pairs of pants I went through. I, I can't even imagine. Um, I would have, I would have needed it like an hour to just activate and be like, sorry, I'm having a moment here because this is,

[00:50:22] this is my ship. I'm sorry. Um, can I be alone? Yeah. Oh man. The day they gave me a communicator for a scene, they could not peel that out of my hands. It's somewhere in your house now, isn't it? You can tell us. I'm talking to you on it now. So, so Bruce, I'm looking at the Indiegogo site right now and I have to ask a question.

[00:50:46] When did another two parter, when did you and what inspired you for the self portraits? That is awesome. Of basically of you painting yourself, which is really cool. Well, every 100 portraits I do a selfie. Oh, so I've done seven self portraits now. And that particular image, uh, actually goes back a number of years now. That's me, a few years younger, uh, that's promotional image for a show called assassinating Thompson.

[00:51:17] And in it, I paint a portrait of the entire audience while I tell the story of how I became a visually impaired visual artist. And I solve the mystery of who killed Tom Thompson, who was a very famous Canadian painter who died mysteriously in 1917. And then the most Canadian of ways, ways he put on his plaid shirt, got into his canoe and paddled off across a lake and disappeared.

[00:51:42] And, uh, it goes down in Canadian lore and many theories and in assassinating Thompson, I solve the mystery. And that was kind of the second installment of the portrait series. It went from a basement one-on-one to a live show where I painted everyone. And then of course, the lockdown with the, uh, with the, uh, working on zoom and this next incarnation, it just seemed, uh, yeah, it just seemed like, okay, well, let's see where, where we can go with it into the universe.

[00:52:11] And, and what does that gonna, what's that gonna look like? Yeah. That's, that's pretty amazing. I mean, I can't even imagine what that, what, what that must be like. And when you said he died in the most Canadian of ways, I thought you were going to say he was hockey, either eating hockey, eating poutine or apologizing to death. Yeah. Now his last words were, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Um, sorry. In all fairness, my mother was Canadian. Um, technically I qualify for dual citizenship, but, um, fantastic. Welcome aboard.

[00:52:41] Thank you. Thank you. It's an honor and a privilege, especially these days. Yeah. I want to move up here like tomorrow. If you could make it a little more seasonably warm, that would be great though. Yeah. You know, I'm in a sweater right now. Yeah, I know. I know. It, it really is amazing Bruce to think of all of the, all of the great, amazing, wonderful things you've done. You've had a great career. You're doing all kinds of

[00:53:09] amazing things with this challenge that you've had since you were a young child. Do you have any words for people who may be having a challenge of their own and not sure what to do next? What words of encouragement could you, could you send, uh, any of those people? Oh, it's, it's the words that I, uh, it's kind of my daily mantra, which is keep going. You know, Jim Gordon near the painter said, if you're stuck painting, keep painting. And I think,

[00:53:39] I think that universally applies to most of the obstacles that I've had in my life. Um, you know, it's not, it's not how hard you get hit. It's, it's how you get back up and keep going. And I think that's Rocky. Maybe that's Rocky. I don't know. I'm mixing my franchises now, but, um, yeah, keep going. Just keep going. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think one of my uncles used to say, how are you doing today? You'd ask him and he'd say, well, another day above the dirt.

[00:54:09] Yeah. Keep on the right side. Yeah. And hopefully with humor. I mean, that's, that's been my, you mentioned it earlier. Um, you know, it's certainly been my default is, is to laugh at the absurdities of life and, and certainly the absurdity of a blind painter does not escape me, but, um, you know, it's, uh, it is absurd and it's fun. And, uh, yeah, I'm awful grateful for it.

[00:54:35] So since you're a star Trek fan, we figure we'll probably, you know, let you in, let you have a couple of soft balls here toward the end of the conversation. So have you seen all of star Trek or is there one that kind of stands out to you that you've seen more than the others? More than the others. Wow. Uh, well, original series, because it was, that was a ritual for me.

[00:54:59] Um, one, I go back to the most. Oh, the finale of next generation. Nice. Uh, that one just gets me in the heart. I think I've watched the finale of Picard three times. So good. That one definitely leaps up again. Um, Oh, what's it called? The inner light, of course, because that is just such a beautiful

[00:55:26] little tale. Um, gosh, yes. So many, um, any Voyager episode with the doctor. I love it. And Bob is such a wonderful guy too. I mean, it's just so, I mean, the acting in that show, you know, all of, all of the series, I just, there's so many standout moments and performances

[00:55:50] that, uh, yeah, I feel really honored to be in that cannon of, uh, yeah, great stories, great characters. Um, and of course the original Gorn episode, I mean, it's just hilarious to me. It's very much so, especially when you look at Bobby Clark trying to move in that costume. My goodness. My goodness. Who's kind of the same now at the convention? Because we sit next to him

[00:56:17] every year. Oh yeah. He's a great guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He, uh, the last two years, his booth has been right next to us. So we've got to talk to him quite a bit. Super, super sweet man. Yeah. Right. This is Vegas that you you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. We're usually on the, uh, on the wall by the, uh, by the doors going into the, uh, the vendor hall. That's where we'll be again this year. Yeah. I'm afraid I won't be, I won't be making it this year. Oh, darn it. Oh, yeah.

[00:56:43] That's a shame. Well, I'll tell you what you'll always going to be welcome here. Anytime you want to come talk about anything, talk about more about boldly going as things happen over the course of the year, Bruce, thank you for your contribute, uh, contributions as hammer. Uh, like I said, my favorite character in strange new worlds, you killed it, man. It was great. Thank you for being a, uh, someone that someone that's people can look up to when they're looking for help because

[00:57:12] by what you do in my mind helps, uh, in so many levels from, from, from dealing with, with all of the issues that you had, uh, your life to making it into a positive and for doing this project and creating beautiful works of art. It's just fantastic. Thank you so much for everything. And thanks for being here with us on, uh, track geeks, man. My pleasure. Thanks guys.

[00:57:51] And Dan, we're back. We are back live, uh, with everybody here on Thursday night geeks. Uh, first I gotta say, Bruce, what an amazing, amazing guy. Um, you know, obviously I love hammer, but I've really gained a new appreciation for Bruce as a person. Um, uh, I, I love the guy. He's, he's so inspirational. That's, that's the word inspirational, you know, sitting there listening to

[00:58:20] everything he had to say, we, we need beacons of light right now. Um, and he is one, what he is doing is so positive because not only does, as I mentioned, not only does it help people who are struggling, see what they can do and what they can accomplish with what he's done, but he's creating works of art that really are beautiful. Um, and I hope, I hope that, uh, that this thing, you know, I hope this

[00:58:49] fundraiser, you know, does awesome and that they're able to get it across the finish line because it's, uh, it's great. And Bruce is a, is a hell of a guy. It's still very early on in the fundraising. As far as the total, they're looking to raise just over a hundred thousand dollars. And right now they're only at $2,000, um, with 26 days left to go. Um, I think they're going to use whatever they

[00:59:13] can raise, but, um, you know, if you are unable to donate, if you could share this amongst your peer group or, you know, um, find some way to, to retweet or reshare, you know, posts about it online from the, uh, the documentary website or from Bruce's social. I believe the, uh, the documentaries, uh, Instagram is boldly going doc, uh, same handle on threads. I'm not sure if they're on other platforms.

[00:59:39] Um, and of course we'll be sharing it too. So you can also feel free to reshare hours. Um, but I would, I would love to see this come to fruition or fruition as, as Bruce says. Yes. Yeah. Um, absolutely. Um, and you know, I would not be surprised if, uh, reading through that, if they don't raise enough, which we want to raise all of them, they'll, they'll trim down. Maybe he won't do as many portraits or something like that. So this is still something that I believe is, is,

[01:00:07] is, is going to get, uh, to be made and seen of ivory. And we just wish them all luck in the world. The other thing I think is going to be interesting is we're going to have to have him back on so he can tell us whether or not he took our dare and, uh, talk to any of the, uh, cast members of strange new worlds to do their portrait. Well, this weekend, we're going to reach out to Anson Mount. Yes.

[01:00:33] And we're gonna try to reach out through channels to sell your Rose Gooding. Um, and if we figure we, if we can get one of them, then that maybe starts a progression or a domino effect, if you will. Um, but you know, we, you know, have chatted with both of them before simply by virtue of doing Trek talks. Um, you know, they're both, uh, wonderful, wonderful people, and I'm sure they

[01:01:00] just don't know about this. Yeah. So, you know, we'll, we'll let them know. And we're going to hope that, you know, the universe does what it should, because I think that would just be amazing. It would absolutely. And, uh, and, uh, I'd love to see the, I'd love to see the finished works of the, of each of the cast members. Uh, I think we'd be pretty awesome. And I gotta say, we didn't talk about it during the interview. The portrait that he did of Hammer is pretty damn good. Also, I don't know if you've seen that one. It looks really good. I have, you know, if, if you, if you go to the,

[01:01:29] the go, sorry, the Indiegogo page, my apologies, and watch the little two minute video that's there. It is so incredible. Um, because I mean, not only do you see Bruce like playing guitar at the beginning, but you get a sense of what his vision is like. Yeah. And that's really kind of sobering. It is. It really is. And I, I want to share that here. I mean, just, he describes it as

[01:01:54] with what the percentage that he has in his one eye, it's as if you were looking through a straw your whole life. That's what his vision is like. And that's, that's really, that's sobering. Like you said, from the time he was four, unbelievable. Unbelievable. So, um, we don't, we, we try not to do pre-taped interviews because obviously it takes something away from the live

[01:02:19] discourse. So thank you all for sticking with us this week. Thank you all for adjusting to the time delay. Next time we'll be back at our normal 8 PM Eastern 5 PM Pacific time block. And, um, we're going to do something fun, which I haven't sprung on Dan yet. Oh, so, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Excellent. Yeah. We're, uh, we're gonna,

[01:02:45] well, actually let's make, let's go Vox Populi again. Um, there are two potential topics for next week and I'm going to type them both in a banner. Dan here, vamp for time until I type this in. Well, I'll tell you what, just to be able to have you spell it out correctly, it'd be great to see, but, um, uh, yeah, everybody, if you can't donate, like Bill said, spread the word about what Bruce is doing. Um, watch that video, listen to his

[01:03:14] interview again. He's a, he's a hell of a guy. And it's, that's one of the things that I've loved so much about, uh, doing what we do, Bill, is that we get to talk to some really great people and Bruce is one of them. So these are our potential show topics for next week. And we are deciding this on the fly, either unpopular opinions, um, things that opinions Dan and I have about Star Trek that

[01:03:40] may not agree with the rest of fandom or sort of popular wisdom or this or that, which is a brief game we played with Jonathan Frakes, um, five years ago now, uh, during the pandemic. Um, so where we come up with a variety of things and, uh, we have to pick which one or why. Yes. So far that is leading

[01:04:06] with three votes. Um, so far it's obviously the leader because it's zero for unpopular opinions. So that would make unpopular opinions, the unpopular opinion. I hate you so much. You're just about words. Um, I will say my vote is this or that as well. Well, nobody asked you. Uh, I think, um, I'm part of the chat. I've been in the chat tonight. You've

[01:04:33] seen me. Have I come here? Uh, yeah, you, yeah, you, you, you participated. I think I saw you playing Candy Crush there in the green room. Candy Crush? What is this? 2004? Um, people still play that. I, I, I, I, I don't have any idea. Ross to go against the grain unpopular opinions. Ross, I appreciate your honesty, but it's looking like it's going to be unpopular opinion. I'm sorry.

[01:04:59] It's going to be this or that, um, as next week's show topic here on Thursday night geeks. Um, actually the potential topic topic could be a this or that. This was a this or that Dan. Exactly. Catch up to us. Okay. The rest of us move fast. Yeah, that's all I'm going to say. Uh-huh. That's going to do it for this week. Everybody. Thank you so much for being with us. We love you

[01:05:25] all. Please remember to like the, this episode, subscribe to the channel, share it with all your friends and your enemies and, and maybe even some people you don't even know. Let's make it really interesting and weird for them until next week. We do hope you all live long and prosper. Have a good night, everybody. See you next time. Music for Trek geeks is provided by five year mission. They're writing an original song for

[01:05:50] each episode of star Trek. Hear more of their music at five year mission.net. Trek geeks is a production of coconut media works, executive producers, Bill Smith and Dan Davidson. For more great Star Trek discussion, discover the other shows of the Trek geeks podcast network at trekgeeks.com or find us in Apple podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.