3.24 - The Sistas Talk Foundation

[00:00:00] Hi, this is Roy Evans, the executive director of the Urban NerdCon, our heroes, our villains,

[00:00:06] our stories, everyone's con. Make sure you tune in and check out the SyFy Sistas.

[00:00:12] No better SyFy talk anywhere on the worldwide web, baby.

[00:00:30] Hey, everybody. Welcome to the SyFy Sistas podcast where we give you our point of view.

[00:00:52] I'm Tamiya Harper and I'm joined today by my sisters, Evette Blackman-Tom.

[00:00:57] Hello, and Sabrina Wood.

[00:01:00] Evette made me laugh y'all.

[00:01:04] I was going so smooth everything was all right and she gave me this look and I was like,

[00:01:09] dude, we had a spike in your name.

[00:01:13] Oh really?

[00:01:14] Tamiya Harper.

[00:01:16] Yeah, I'm going to puberty y'all.

[00:01:24] So anyway, digression. Hi everybody. We're so delighted to be here again today.

[00:01:30] We're here to talk all things foundation. It's one of our favorite new shows.

[00:01:36] Foundation on Apple TV. Apple plus.

[00:01:41] Right. You know, I've got Tamiya plus.

[00:01:44] Yeah, that's actually the real name.

[00:01:48] It's a lot of words though.

[00:01:51] We all know what we're talking about on that streaming platform from Apple.

[00:01:55] That's awesome. There has a bunch of good shows and this is one of them.

[00:01:59] And you know, foundation is something that we have.

[00:02:05] Some of us have some familiarity with the books by Isaac Asimov,

[00:02:11] which is what the show is based on.

[00:02:14] And some of us have no familiarity with those books whatsoever.

[00:02:19] And you know, we thought it was really interesting to talk about the differences.

[00:02:25] Some of the differences between the books and the TV show.

[00:02:28] But really how the TV show by simply switching gender of some of the main characters

[00:02:37] and switching the races of some of the main characters,

[00:02:40] the impact that that is having on the storytelling.

[00:02:43] And why it's so impactful to us? Like why we started watching.

[00:02:47] I mean, they're probably, I mean, it's not like, excuse me.

[00:02:52] Sorry. It's not like just because there would be no black people in it.

[00:02:57] I wouldn't watch it. I'm just saying that it makes it way more intriguing to me

[00:03:02] that several of the main characters of the show are black and black women at that.

[00:03:09] Yeah, definitely.

[00:03:11] You know, and that's a huge deal on any show at any time these days still.

[00:03:16] But especially for a save, it's true.

[00:03:19] Right still sad to say, but it's true.

[00:03:21] Right? That we're not marginalized to black TV, you know, or you know,

[00:03:28] that didn't air quotes y'all. You can't see my air quotes online.

[00:03:31] Black story lines.

[00:03:34] This is a treasured science fiction book that, you know,

[00:03:41] to me, you and I grew up reading this one.

[00:03:44] This is a cornerstone.

[00:03:47] I mean, everybody that was real geek back in the day, you read foundation.

[00:03:51] Right. Like to be fair, it'd be quite honest.

[00:03:53] I read foundation.

[00:03:54] I read a couple of the foundation books.

[00:03:56] I think I read like the first two.

[00:03:58] There's seven books in the series and a couple of prequels and get that far.

[00:04:02] No.

[00:04:04] Which means, you know, and also I read what I read.

[00:04:08] I read them and I was really, really young.

[00:04:11] So a lot of the concepts just went over my head, you know,

[00:04:15] and I didn't give the work itself time for it to speak to me, you know,

[00:04:21] but there were several reasons why I didn't speak to me.

[00:04:24] But I mean we can go into that in a minute, you know, but yeah.

[00:04:27] So my knowledge going into watching the show was just one of confusion

[00:04:35] because I had half-formed memories of characters.

[00:04:39] Right.

[00:04:40] And events and plots and watching the show didn't help clear up any of them.

[00:04:46] Yeah.

[00:04:47] Because the show, nothing like no book.

[00:04:50] Right.

[00:04:51] I think that was one of the, I think that was one of the hurdles they had in season one

[00:04:56] where a lot of us came into it myself included.

[00:04:59] Like you said, you read it, you know, when you were young, I read it years ago.

[00:05:02] I wasn't young, but I read it years ago and same thing.

[00:05:07] I came into it expecting or hoping for looking for certain things in season one didn't find them

[00:05:14] and maybe got a little like, hmm, I don't know,

[00:05:17] but the show kept me going.

[00:05:19] And I liked, you know, the stars, the actors, the cast, the production.

[00:05:23] I was in even though I was like, this is not foundation.

[00:05:27] This is not foundation.

[00:05:28] But now here we are season two and I've gotten over that at home.

[00:05:33] I'm over it.

[00:05:34] I know it's not foundation.

[00:05:36] So what is it?

[00:05:37] Right.

[00:05:38] And if that is coming to the show from like this,

[00:05:42] this is her first introduction to foundation.

[00:05:44] Exactly.

[00:05:45] I mean, I've heard, I've heard of the book, of course, but never read it.

[00:05:49] The books.

[00:05:50] Oh no.

[00:05:51] I didn't hear of the books.

[00:05:53] I thought it was one book.

[00:05:55] That's how much I did not know about it.

[00:05:59] The only reason, excuse me, the only reason I actually watched the show is because we had Chris Marshall on the show

[00:06:11] from another Apple TV plus show called For all mankind and you have got to watch this show called foundation.

[00:06:21] There's so many people of color in there.

[00:06:24] There's a lot of women leads and I was like, let me watch this.

[00:06:29] Well, I tried to watch it many times.

[00:06:33] And I just could not get through the whole thing.

[00:06:35] You know, I was like, what am I missing?

[00:06:38] You know, I love that there are a lot of people of color is a lot of women, but I just could not get into it.

[00:06:48] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:06:51] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:06:54] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:06:57] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:06:59] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:01] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:03] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:05] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:07] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:09] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:11] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:13] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:15] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:17] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:19] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:21] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:23] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:25] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:27] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:29] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:30] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:32] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:33] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:34] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:35] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:36] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:38] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:39] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:41] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:42] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:43] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:45] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:46] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:47] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:48] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:49] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:50] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:51] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:52] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:54] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:55] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:56] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:57] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:58] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:07:59] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:00] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:01] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:02] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:03] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:04] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:05] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:06] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:08] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:09] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:10] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:12] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:13] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:14] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:15] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:16] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:17] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:18] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:19] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:20] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:21] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:23] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:24] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:25] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:26] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:27] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:28] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:29] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:30] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:31] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:32] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:33] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:34] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:35] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:37] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:38] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:39] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:40] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:41] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:42] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:43] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:44] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:45] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:46] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:47] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:48] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:49] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:51] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:52] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:53] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:54] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:55] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:56] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:57] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:58] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:08:59] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:00] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:01] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:02] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:03] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:05] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:06] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:07] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:09] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:10] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:11] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:12] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:13] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:14] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:15] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:16] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:17] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:18] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:19] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:20] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:21] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:22] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:23] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:24] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:25] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:26] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:27] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:28] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:29] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:30] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:31] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:32] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:33] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:34] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:35] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:36] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:37] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:38] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:39] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:40] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:41] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:42] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:43] I was like, well, I'm not going to get into it.

[00:09:44] I was like, I had to watch it with my glasses on so I could read stuff sometimes.

[00:09:49] Which made it not actually relaxing the first time around.

[00:09:53] At some point, I'm working to watch this show.

[00:09:56] It wasn't like I was running home to watch this because I knew I had to sit down and devote energy.

[00:10:04] Time to, however, it was so compelling that I did carve that time out into my life to make sure that I did it.

[00:10:12] But it was a hard, that first season for me was a little difficult.

[00:10:17] It felt really disjointed until we got in the rhythm of them doing that.

[00:10:24] But I think that that also is one of the callbacks to the books.

[00:10:31] But then the books you don't necessarily go backwards all the time.

[00:10:33] You just have these huge jumps in time that you're going back.

[00:10:38] And that's that.

[00:10:39] Yeah, you're not really going backwards necessarily at all.

[00:10:43] But you are jumping through it.

[00:10:45] What he was telling was this humongous epic, epic, epic civilization spanning story.

[00:10:55] There was spanning a thousand years or something.

[00:10:58] It was a huge, huge story to tell.

[00:11:02] When I really, that's something that I missed on my younger self.

[00:11:07] It's something that I came to know just by like listening to other people reading articles and stuff about it that like,

[00:11:13] oh, I really need to give that the whole scope, the reason why it's such a big project is because it's a big story.

[00:11:20] It's a big project.

[00:11:22] And when you're telling a story that's spanning all the, you know, all these hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of years.

[00:11:32] The reader in order to experience that if you really want to immerse them into that,

[00:11:36] you're going to take the time telling.

[00:11:37] Yeah.

[00:11:38] Yeah.

[00:11:39] You know,

[00:11:40] I think I think the reason why I kept going back is because I knew that foundation was a foundation, you know, of sci-fi.

[00:11:51] So that's why I kept going back and I was like, I've got to get this.

[00:11:56] And then all of these black people working, I need to go back and you know, I need to support this.

[00:12:02] Right.

[00:12:03] And now I'm so glad because like all first seasons, it's something to get used to.

[00:12:10] So I'm glad I went back because I love the first season now because that's where you get to meet everybody.

[00:12:17] Now in the second season, you're so invested in these people that the origin stories for me, not the book.

[00:12:25] The origin stories for me are first season.

[00:12:28] Right.

[00:12:29] So that's why I really like it now.

[00:12:31] One of the things I felt and I don't know if this tune, I have not read a lot of the outside articles and things about it.

[00:12:39] And I have not listened to the podcast.

[00:12:40] I will say that right off the bat.

[00:12:42] But for me, and like I said, I was having to get over that, you know, comparing it to the book.

[00:12:50] But I also felt a little bit like the writers kind of had their head in the book a little bit and they were trying to stay with the book and be a bit more like the book.

[00:13:01] And then second season, they were like all bets are off.

[00:13:03] You know what?

[00:13:04] We're just going to write this with the pieces that we want to take.

[00:13:08] The inspirations that we can have from Asmo and from whatever else we have, because there was just so much I candy that I saw that was all these callbacks to other sci fi and the visuals were just all over the place.

[00:13:21] I mean, I saw contact in there.

[00:13:22] I saw I saw Star Trek in there.

[00:13:24] I saw I saw Star Wars in there.

[00:13:26] I mean they were doing all these things.

[00:13:28] They were like, we're just going to tell this whole galactic story about all these eons.

[00:13:32] It was still all this time jumping, but I felt like the writers had gotten into their seats and they put the seat belt on and they were like let's just go.

[00:13:41] We're not looking back at the book.

[00:13:43] We're just going to go.

[00:13:44] We know the story we want to tell.

[00:13:46] And I felt like they were they were free.

[00:13:49] I can't wait for three.

[00:13:50] I cannot wait to see what they're going to do on season three.

[00:13:52] Is it all back?

[00:13:53] Go back to season is the season.

[00:13:54] Go back to what you said, Sabrina.

[00:13:56] You said that you saw these other other titles, other franchises in this but foundation.

[00:14:04] Yeah, eyes and off.

[00:14:06] He is the foundation of most sci fi so I think more that we saw his works in those other franchises.

[00:14:17] Maybe indeed.

[00:14:18] Yes, because I was thinking of the visuals that they were using in a look.

[00:14:23] And maybe that's a call back to just remember this is where all your sci fi came from.

[00:14:28] You know, I mean, I mean, it's it isn't it isn't like side at foundation.

[00:14:34] It was one of those ones that was one of the first.

[00:14:39] Once it that took some people but they took side to tell sort of challenge the literary public to take science fiction seriously.

[00:14:49] Oh yeah, you know and move it out of the realm of the pulps and separate like that.

[00:14:57] There's actual big ideas happening in science fiction.

[00:15:01] There's actually literature.

[00:15:02] This is literature as much as it is entertainment.

[00:15:07] You know, and so I mean so it's hugely important in that way.

[00:15:13] You know, one thing I want to ask you to me because you read the books.

[00:15:18] Could you know, I read well, what some of the more of the books than I have could you and I found myself doing this in season two more so than one.

[00:15:27] I have to go back and let's watch one again but I could almost tell when a line of dialogue was right from asthma.

[00:15:35] Sometimes yes.

[00:15:37] Yeah, sometimes.

[00:15:39] Or the you know, right?

[00:15:41] That's yeah and I was looking up sure enough it was straight in the book and I just felt like I they kept his voice in there which I really.

[00:15:49] Yeah, yeah, yeah because there's a it is a distinct voice.

[00:15:52] I mean, one of the things that I've been listening to the books again.

[00:15:57] And just because my reading time is so limited but I think I'm going to stop listening and go back and read, actually read again.

[00:16:08] I think this does not lend itself to the audio book very easily.

[00:16:15] Not unless you're doing a full like a full cast production or you put a little bit more production behind the audio.

[00:16:24] Sometimes the segues and breaks are less obvious in the audio than they would be on the page.

[00:16:35] So, you know, I'm having problems with the audio production of it a little bit.

[00:16:40] I mean no shade.

[00:16:42] It's just that I'm having problems following the story as easily but what I remember and like and it's interesting because I would.

[00:16:51] For y'all who don't know, you know, I'm a child of the 70s.

[00:16:54] I was born in 1971 so and when asthma of first publishes I think it leaves us in the 60s right or 50s 50s right and it has this voice that's very dated.

[00:17:06] The language is of its time.

[00:17:12] It's you know, there are very few contractions and colloquialisms are different and the books especially book one.

[00:17:25] There's no I mean everybody's white and everybody's a white male.

[00:17:32] So, we have the entire white finds fiction and entire galaxy out there.

[00:17:38] It's so white.

[00:17:40] Nobody who's not only an alien, so just white people everywhere.

[00:17:46] You know, which is hilarious, you know, and it sounds very white male.

[00:17:51] I mean, it's like it sounds like a story that was told even though he like it's higher literature.

[00:17:57] It's a lot.

[00:17:59] It sounds very the first book is you got to get to just get through the first book, you know, it sounds like, you know, like white guy saves the day again.

[00:18:08] You know, even though it's not right.

[00:18:10] It's not the daring do or anything most time.

[00:18:12] It's all through cunning and guile and wisdom.

[00:18:17] You know, and you know, like the biggest quote that goes through.

[00:18:22] Especially books one and two is that what is it?

[00:18:26] The violence is the last is the last refuge of the company.

[00:18:31] Definitely use that.

[00:18:33] That's it.

[00:18:34] But see, but in the book.

[00:18:35] This is a huge diversion from the books to the TV show.

[00:18:39] You never all these seldom crises that happen are never solved by violence in the books.

[00:18:46] They're always sold solved by diplomacy by some cunning, by some guile, by some trade.

[00:18:53] You know, and people really playing chess.

[00:18:56] You know to in order to so like we're going to take the retreat.

[00:19:00] It's going to seem like we're taking a L right here.

[00:19:03] You know, you say that you got the rights to this product.

[00:19:08] Right?

[00:19:09] But we in the contract that we wrote the only people who can manufacture the components to make this product are us.

[00:19:17] So, you know, so the people so they can sell 50s white men.

[00:19:21] We're talking this is mad men.

[00:19:23] Yes.

[00:19:24] Yes.

[00:19:25] I mean, like so I mean it's, you know, I don't mean to digress.

[00:19:30] No, but I mean you write your on it though because the way the book is written and then they've got to beef it up for today's sensibilities.

[00:19:39] Like we are not going to sit through watching guile and cunning.

[00:19:42] No, unless you put, you know, Don Draper in there.

[00:19:45] Yeah, it would have been like yeah, it would have been a really boring.

[00:19:49] It's love.

[00:19:50] It would have been a vlog.

[00:19:52] It would have been a slog.

[00:19:53] The showrunner.

[00:19:55] Oh god.

[00:19:56] David S. Boyer.

[00:19:57] I think he's right.

[00:19:58] I think he's right.

[00:19:59] Yes, so he actually said that this is the writers are big, big fans of the books and they love you know they're putting those Easter eggs in there for all the book readers.

[00:20:13] But this is not an adaptation.

[00:20:15] This is not this is a re what do you say a remix?

[00:20:19] A remix.

[00:20:20] A remix of the books.

[00:20:23] It's not supposed to be because like you just said, I was that really going to play today.

[00:20:29] You know, is anybody going to watch that?

[00:20:31] No one's going to watch that.

[00:20:32] Well, it gives them a lot of license.

[00:20:35] Yeah, it gives them a lot of freedom.

[00:20:37] But the other thing that's also disconcerting to somebody who read the books is like they read how they introduce characters and when they introduce characters and also.

[00:20:46] I understand a lot of the criticism out there because they didn't just gender swap or race swap some characters.

[00:20:55] They completely changed the actual character.

[00:20:58] Salvo Harden.

[00:20:59] Salvo was a mayor who was not a warrior who was extremely smart and cunning and Salvo saved his whole planet.

[00:21:12] And he was a great character.

[00:21:15] He was a great character.

[00:21:18] He was a great character.

[00:21:21] He was a great character.

[00:21:24] He was a great character.

[00:21:26] He was a great character.

[00:21:29] He was a great character.

[00:21:31] He was a great character.

[00:21:33] He was a great character.

[00:21:35] He was a great character.

[00:21:37] He was a great character.

[00:21:40] He really used his brain.

[00:21:43] This Salvoer that we get is like I got to protect, I got to shoot it.

[00:21:49] That's not...

[00:21:52] Not to say that that's all the Salvoer is because she's not.

[00:21:56] The Salvoer is also complicated and layered.

[00:22:00] But this Salvoer is a warden, not a mayor.

[00:22:03] She's not a negotiator.

[00:22:06] All of those qualities from that original character are completely stripped and changed into something different.

[00:22:13] So there's service in the name.

[00:22:17] But it's not keeping what...

[00:22:20] It's not really what was written.

[00:22:22] So you know, you get this...

[00:22:24] The show is...

[00:22:26] It's like a different brew.

[00:22:28] It's steeped in foundation but it's something else coming out entirely.

[00:22:34] Philosophically it's a very different show from what the books were.

[00:22:38] Even on how to sell.

[00:22:40] In some ways, in some ways it's not because it's still asking those same questions.

[00:22:45] Same question.

[00:22:47] Like individual choice versus determinism and things like that.

[00:22:54] The constant of power and the constant of power struggles.

[00:22:59] These things are all addressed because the second foundation is still the goal of Harry Selden in the books and in the show.

[00:23:08] And the second foundation, the books make it very clear and the show has made it clear.

[00:23:12] Like the second foundation was intended to supplant the empire.

[00:23:17] So we're going to...

[00:23:20] It's not a revolution of power to the people revolution at all.

[00:23:24] No, not at all.

[00:23:25] It's not only upsetting one...

[00:23:28] One empire to get a third.

[00:23:31] And call it by different name and it's still the same thing.

[00:23:36] Yeah, empires fall and they rise.

[00:23:40] Yeah, so there's lots of articles out there if people are interested that they can look at like the differences between the TV show and the books.

[00:23:52] And vice versa.

[00:23:53] And I'm sure this show is kind of controversial because of that because there's a lot of license like people are willing to give you, especially if you're fans of the books, they're going to give you some license in order to make a good TV show.

[00:24:06] But at this point, it feels like it's completely divorced from me.

[00:24:12] It's just like, don't...

[00:24:13] And that's my thing. And that's okay.

[00:24:16] I'm not one of these people that was so enamored of these books to begin with that I feel connected to them in such an emotional way.

[00:24:25] But there are people out there who do feel that and they feel like they've been kind of slapped in the face.

[00:24:31] But other people...

[00:24:33] Now mind you, this show is made in full consent and agreement with Isaac Asimov's daughter.

[00:24:40] Yeah, wow.

[00:24:42] She's got everything in that estate.

[00:24:45] That's right. And I think she even has like a writing credit every once in a while.

[00:24:50] She's an executive producer for sure.

[00:24:51] I've seen her name up there for writer once.

[00:24:54] I can't remember which...

[00:24:56] It might have been for executive producer but I could have swore it's what because I look I'm like, is that writer?

[00:25:00] And I didn't go back to check.

[00:25:02] So she's very fully aware of what it takes to make good television and the difference.

[00:25:07] But my take is that this is a really extreme example to me of taking a book or books and making a series out of it and really not sticking with the source material.

[00:25:22] Like, I mean like the expanse for instance, you know, the expanse took a completely different viewpoint.

[00:25:29] Like, they stuck so closely with the source material that first season of the expanse was kind of difficult for people who were not reading those books.

[00:25:39] Right? Yeah.

[00:25:40] It was it's difficult.

[00:25:42] It was a different reason.

[00:25:43] So, and and and and yeah.

[00:25:46] Like, that was like if you weren't already steeped in that world and knew that vocabulary, it was very difficult to get into that story and into those characters.

[00:25:54] But once you did hold on and then we were so grateful that they stuck to the books like they were very faithful to the philosophy and the ideas and the questions that they were posing in those books.

[00:26:06] You could see the characters from the books on screen, you could see the situations that happened in the books portrayed accurately, you know, like and you could go in and follow the continuity of it.

[00:26:20] Right.

[00:26:21] You know, this is asking something different from the audience. This is asking us to like we're going to use these concepts. We're going to use these ideas.

[00:26:28] We're going to use these philosophies and we're going to challenge you to think about them all and take what you know about foundation and think about it all differently.

[00:26:38] And I'm not mad with that works.

[00:26:40] I enjoyed the exercise. I really did. I mean, it was entertaining. It was well done.

[00:26:47] I think it was some, I think some of the acting I thought was a little uneven, but I just kept going with it.

[00:26:54] It's you can't not watch it once you watch that first episode of season one. You're in your end. It's like, okay, all bits are off. We're on for this ride. Take me where you want to take me.

[00:27:04] I do want to say that season two solidified it for me.

[00:27:10] Like I said, took me a while to get through season one and I had to watch a little bit of season two to really go back and kind of say, okay, I'm in.

[00:27:19] But I had to season two was a lot.

[00:27:23] I mean, they did a lot of storytelling in season two and I was it was like a ride.

[00:27:30] And I just loved it and I love the acting. I thought the acting was wonderful because these are people who are changing as we watch them throughout the season.

[00:27:43] And they're acting as if they're totally different people, you know, especially the empires especially empire.

[00:27:50] Empire was like all three. All four of those actors because even the little even little baby day.

[00:27:58] Yeah, also not baby dawn right?

[00:28:02] Yeah, baby dawn.

[00:28:04] I mean all four of them are I mean they because they're totally different people or totally different.

[00:28:11] Each clone that comes has their own unique personality.

[00:28:15] That was something that was threw me off at first in the beginning like what's going on?

[00:28:19] And I'm like, oh, and then we get it from the beginning. I was like love it.

[00:28:23] I need to know what you know what?

[00:28:26] That intrigued me because I've never seen anything like that before.

[00:28:29] And I think that kept me coming back. I always find them intriguing.

[00:28:34] Yeah, just the dynamic of that just that genetic dynasty, you know, I'm like what?

[00:28:40] Who thought it is? This is crazy.

[00:28:43] But I'm just you know, I keep going back to find out what are they doing?

[00:28:47] You know, and they're always doing something crazy.

[00:28:50] Oh, my favorite lines was when the queen there that she was talking to him and she said, well, your grandfather, your grandfather and and Rue.

[00:29:01] And he was like, he's not my grandfather.

[00:29:04] Oh, yeah, she said she said, yeah, I'm still trying to get used to you.

[00:29:09] Right. I need more to get this out.

[00:29:12] Okay, so while we're on Queen Sarah.

[00:29:16] I love her. Ella, Ella Ray Smith.

[00:29:19] Ella Ray. I love that name for her.

[00:29:21] Her name, right?

[00:29:23] We're still England.

[00:29:25] Ella Ray.

[00:29:26] Ella Ray.

[00:29:27] She she did an amazing job.

[00:29:30] She came in ready.

[00:29:32] Young woman with thrust it with the weight of all this responsibility on her who was not raised for it.

[00:29:39] Her sister's were raised for it.

[00:29:41] And then she got it because of the murder of her young murder of her family.

[00:29:45] And then she comes in here like into the lap of the empire right into the lion's den.

[00:29:53] Right.

[00:29:54] Probably the murder was definitely the murderers.

[00:29:57] You know, bold and wary and and and wily and brave and courageous.

[00:30:04] You know, she pokes the bear all the time.

[00:30:07] You know, she's that dinner and she's messing with empire from the jump.

[00:30:12] I mean, she plays that role the way it's supposed to be played.

[00:30:16] You know, because any young woman and you're breathing into what she's 19 20 years old, maybe.

[00:30:24] She's they all act like that.

[00:30:27] You know, they, you know, they're coming in because they are feeling themselves.

[00:30:31] You know, they're beautiful.

[00:30:33] Their bodies are all together.

[00:30:35] You know, their brains are working.

[00:30:37] You know, they can, they coming in there to challenge anybody and she has a chip on her shoulder plus she's extremely desperate.

[00:30:44] I mean, she, this is all she can do.

[00:30:47] She, her whole life is done like this is, this is the her best option.

[00:30:53] And this is a hell of a option.

[00:30:56] And I think she plays that character so well.

[00:31:02] You know, because you know from the beginning, she's not taking their shit.

[00:31:07] She's going to rile up everybody.

[00:31:09] You hope she survives because she is like she said she is poking the bear.

[00:31:15] But I just loved the way she played that character and I always wanted to see her.

[00:31:20] And I was like, what is she, you know, every time they, because she was, it was great to see all that femininity in there.

[00:31:26] Because all those dudes.

[00:31:29] Right.

[00:31:30] That now is all together.

[00:31:31] You know, in the robot, she's not really, you know, she's very mechanical.

[00:31:35] But they and then and Gale and Salvo are like, they're roughening the whole day.

[00:31:41] Oh wait.

[00:31:42] Oh wait.

[00:31:43] Those poor, those poor sisters, they not getting no luxury happening to.

[00:31:49] Oh, Gale.

[00:31:52] Oh my god.

[00:31:54] Yeah.

[00:31:55] You know, I was looking at her and you know what one of the times that popped into my head was O'Brien must suffer.

[00:32:02] You know, Gale.

[00:32:04] Definitely.

[00:32:07] That is always comes back to Star Trek always.

[00:32:10] Oh yeah, definitely because I think when I was it.

[00:32:13] I saw a lot of like, like, like Sabrina said, you know, you see a lot of the other franchises in here.

[00:32:19] I saw a lot of Star Trek in here also, you know, and then but then when I was saying that I remember it something and I want to.

[00:32:26] I didn't want to come to it because I can't remember exactly where it was, but I remember Riker said one time to somebody about data that asks them off.

[00:32:35] Robot or as, as most positronic brain.

[00:32:39] And he talked about the positronic brain in some of his books.

[00:32:44] Well, it came up, it came up in Star Trek somewhere they mentioned asmorph theory or asmorph robot and I was like.

[00:32:52] And then I'm watching this and I'm like, okay.

[00:32:55] What's her name?

[00:32:56] Why can't I think of it now?

[00:32:58] Demo's L.

[00:32:59] It's definitely the positronic brain.

[00:33:02] Oh, you know, and I'm like, oh, is this, you know what is this what they were talking about.

[00:33:06] So I digress. I'm sorry, but when you mentioned that I was like, yeah, that's what I was thinking about Star Trek is always there.

[00:33:11] Star Trek is a robot theme is well, number one, that's as mobile over the place because that is so that again Sabrina which is that's asmo of all over the place.

[00:33:19] The robot theme of the robot.

[00:33:21] Oh, yeah, that's all it's all who is works and you know, and now you are right.

[00:33:28] Yeah, I will but then here we are talking about AI and what the threats are and you know, we've got this character in there.

[00:33:35] That's just like.

[00:33:36] Oh, let's hear it is.

[00:33:38] I knew from the beginning that she was she was the pin.

[00:33:42] You knew she was trouble first.

[00:33:44] Oh, yeah, I know.

[00:33:46] Oh, there she is.

[00:33:48] That's her watch out for that one.

[00:33:52] I knew it.

[00:33:53] And you know, she just starts off so crazy.

[00:33:56] I'm like, what is happening?

[00:33:58] You know, it's so cool about it though.

[00:34:02] But then framing with them, recasting these characters right.

[00:34:09] Salvor and Gale as black women right who are standing against an opposed to empire.

[00:34:17] Right.

[00:34:18] Empire is cast very deliberately as a white man.

[00:34:24] And then you have Demo's cell who was also that character was originally a male character.

[00:34:32] And recast as a white woman.

[00:34:35] And so through the eyes of colonialism has a brown person.

[00:34:41] You see that white woman behind that white man every black woman knows it's always the woman you got to watch.

[00:34:49] That's the one way we always always.

[00:34:52] We know the minute we have the.

[00:34:55] I mean that was like in the back space Karen.

[00:34:59] It's Robock Karen robot.

[00:35:02] Yes, I can't.

[00:35:06] I can't.

[00:35:16] And it puts a whole different spin on reading this show.

[00:35:20] I think like particularly as black and brown people watching this show, that's it's reading a whole different way.

[00:35:27] Yeah, you know, I don't know how intentional that was.

[00:35:30] I know that it was intentional to cast Gale.

[00:35:33] As a woman at least I don't know if it was intentional to cast her as a black woman.

[00:35:38] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:35:39] I know he all he said was that he wanted it to be for a global audience.

[00:35:44] And for a global audience to see themselves.

[00:35:47] He really did it.

[00:35:49] That was it.

[00:35:50] That was that was so.

[00:35:52] He says this has to be for a global audience and he wanted everybody to see themselves in this show.

[00:35:58] And I'm telling you everybody's.

[00:36:01] Everybody's in it.

[00:36:02] It was great to see it really was.

[00:36:05] Everybody so I love.

[00:36:07] Yeah, well, I mean, I know he addresses it on that podcast.

[00:36:10] If you guys go back and listen to the foundation, the official podcast on Apple podcasts.

[00:36:20] So that's really the only place you can get it.

[00:36:22] That's the sucky thing about Apple podcasts is like you can only get them on an apple thing.

[00:36:27] Oh really?

[00:36:28] Okay, I realize that.

[00:36:30] But anyway, he says it in one of the first episodes of that podcast.

[00:36:35] But I don't remember what the answer was.

[00:36:39] Yeah, but I just think that regardless of whether it was intentional or not, the reading is there.

[00:36:45] Yeah.

[00:36:46] Now and there's no other way to read it as a as a black person or brown person.

[00:36:51] Now for us, you know, you know, all three of us read it that way.

[00:36:55] It is a direct.

[00:36:56] It yeah, it's direct parallel to colonialism.

[00:36:59] It is.

[00:37:00] I mean, that's what it is.

[00:37:01] I mean, it's just colonialism in terms that we can understand it if history had been different.

[00:37:06] And you know, the color of the colonialism.

[00:37:09] It is colonialism.

[00:37:10] It is colonialism.

[00:37:11] It's just it, you know, the variable is the colors of the skin who grow.

[00:37:15] It's always going to be the same dynamics power dynamics going on.

[00:37:19] But yeah, Demo Zell is one of my favorite characters in the love this.

[00:37:24] She's amazing.

[00:37:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:37:26] Lynn Bern I think her name is.

[00:37:28] Yeah, I think it's Laura.

[00:37:29] Laura Bern.

[00:37:30] Laura Beeren or a burn.

[00:37:32] She's killing me.

[00:37:33] I aren't in.

[00:37:34] She is killing it.

[00:37:35] Yeah, she is killing.

[00:37:36] She's watching the scene.

[00:37:37] I love watching.

[00:37:38] She I think I'm.

[00:37:40] I love Salvador.

[00:37:41] A lot.

[00:37:42] I love you.

[00:37:43] I love you.

[00:37:44] That's my girl.

[00:37:45] I come for Demo Zell.

[00:37:47] Yes.

[00:37:48] Yeah.

[00:37:49] Demo Zell is giving it every time.

[00:37:52] I mean, the most minute gestures that just speak volumes.

[00:37:59] And then her storyline, you know, they really enhanced that and they've made it

[00:38:06] something really compelling.

[00:38:08] And, you know, and it's so tragic.

[00:38:10] It is.

[00:38:11] You know, so like the only tragic we end up relating still as a black woman.

[00:38:16] I can relate to Demo Zell because she's a captive too, which is also on the

[00:38:21] other one of these dynamics of colonialism as well.

[00:38:24] Yeah.

[00:38:25] You know, I mean that you end up even though you end up relating in some ways to the people

[00:38:30] who are oppressing you because some of them in turn are oppressed as well.

[00:38:34] It's, you know, degrees of oppression.

[00:38:36] Everybody, everybody.

[00:38:37] I think everybody just with the picture is oppressed in some way or a prisoner of

[00:38:45] something of their circumstance.

[00:38:47] You know, there's everybody in the world who is a person.

[00:38:50] There's everybody, especially the theme for this season was all about people being free.

[00:38:55] You know, finding freedom from something, you know.

[00:39:00] It's I just I love these each story is not connected right now.

[00:39:08] But I think I'm just waiting for all to come together.

[00:39:14] But do I really want it to come together?

[00:39:17] You know, because I love it the way it is.

[00:39:21] But it's coming together in little ways, which I think I like that even more that these little things are coming together.

[00:39:28] You know, like what was it?

[00:39:30] Gail is the one that told Dr.

[00:39:33] Dr.

[00:39:35] Selden Dr. Selden.

[00:39:36] Harry Selden.

[00:39:37] Yeah, doc because I think they because I read the captions and they name him Dr.

[00:39:42] Selden and then the and then the other one with with Gail and

[00:39:48] Salvador they name him Harry.

[00:39:51] Okay, that's how you know the difference between the two I guess because they named they named them totally different.

[00:39:56] But I love well, I love a lot of things about him.

[00:40:00] I love that he found out about Holder Holder Malin is that was a hollow malin through.

[00:40:07] Okay, Harbour Marlon.

[00:40:10] Right?

[00:40:11] Harbour Malin.

[00:40:12] Harbour Malo.

[00:40:13] Malo Malo.

[00:40:14] You know what?

[00:40:15] I gave a throw in my mind.

[00:40:18] Hold the door.

[00:40:20] Okay, I'm just going to say one thing.

[00:40:22] Holder, I said Harbour.

[00:40:23] I'm listening to you.

[00:40:24] Holder Malo.

[00:40:25] Holder Malo.

[00:40:26] Holder Malo.

[00:40:27] Did you think he looked like a young Jeff Goldblum?

[00:40:33] He looks like he could be related to Jeff.

[00:40:36] I guess so.

[00:40:37] I was like, I was like Jeff Goldblum back when he was kind of like that guy.

[00:40:44] Was he?

[00:40:45] I see it.

[00:40:46] Okay.

[00:40:47] So you know who was up.

[00:40:48] Sorry, go ahead.

[00:40:49] I'm sorry.

[00:40:50] I thought he was the star.

[00:40:51] I want to I want to act there's another favorite storyline of mine too.

[00:40:53] I want to go after you're done.

[00:40:54] I'm dead.

[00:40:55] Go ahead.

[00:40:56] Oh, okay.

[00:40:57] So Bel Rios.

[00:40:58] Bel Rios.

[00:40:59] Yeah, that's the general.

[00:41:01] The general.

[00:41:02] And his story his whole storyline is activating and amazing too.

[00:41:05] That was a crazy ending.

[00:41:06] Yes.

[00:41:07] Go ahead.

[00:41:08] Okay, but when I saw his husband, I was saying to myself, wait a second.

[00:41:15] First of all, he hasn't seen him in six years.

[00:41:17] Second of all, they were probably serving for like four or five years together.

[00:41:20] That's a one-year-old man with his guy when he was 12.

[00:41:22] I mean the guy look.

[00:41:23] He looks like he looks younger than him.

[00:41:25] I know and that was five.

[00:41:26] I made December.

[00:41:27] So when did you first hit on this?

[00:41:29] You're chicken hot.

[00:41:31] Oh my God.

[00:41:32] He was fine.

[00:41:33] I was like, yeah, that's your hobby.

[00:41:34] I would be saying yesterday.

[00:41:35] I'm for to get him back.

[00:41:36] Sure.

[00:41:37] That scene when they both saw each other when they reconciled came back together.

[00:41:40] I was crying.

[00:41:41] It was so beautiful.

[00:41:42] It was so when he was cutting his hair.

[00:41:49] Yeah.

[00:41:50] I was stunning.

[00:41:51] It was stunning.

[00:41:52] So those are some of my.

[00:41:53] I think it's a lot of fun.

[00:41:54] I think it's a lot of fun.

[00:41:55] I think it's a lot of fun.

[00:41:56] I think it's a lot of fun.

[00:41:57] I think it's a lot of fun.

[00:41:58] It's stunning.

[00:41:59] So those are some of my.

[00:42:00] My other callouts, but let's get to our girls.

[00:42:04] Yeah.

[00:42:05] Let's get to gale and.

[00:42:07] And so we're in the two like.

[00:42:10] Lula Bell.

[00:42:13] And Leah Harvey.

[00:42:15] Yes.

[00:42:16] I'm in love with them.

[00:42:17] Yes.

[00:42:18] You know.

[00:42:19] I said the same thing.

[00:42:20] I'm in love with them.

[00:42:21] I love them too.

[00:42:22] I love them.

[00:42:23] I love them.

[00:42:24] I love them.

[00:42:25] I love them.

[00:42:26] I love them.

[00:42:27] They're like family.

[00:42:28] Right?

[00:42:29] I just come here.

[00:42:30] Let me hug.

[00:42:31] Don't do nothing to my girls.

[00:42:33] Okay.

[00:42:34] Yeah.

[00:42:35] They are acting their asses off.

[00:42:36] Yeah.

[00:42:37] I mean, first of all, Lula Bell's character gale has been through some shit.

[00:42:49] You know, she's the.

[00:42:53] I mean, she's.

[00:42:54] She's.

[00:42:55] Gotta leave her home world, right?

[00:42:58] Which is this podunk ass planet.

[00:43:00] You know, and everybody was like ignorant and she was just smart and like they didn't understand

[00:43:06] numbers and whatnot.

[00:43:07] You know, it's like science is real people now.

[00:43:10] It's crazy.

[00:43:11] We're going fishing.

[00:43:12] We're going fishing.

[00:43:13] We're going fishing.

[00:43:14] Like okay.

[00:43:15] Time to go.

[00:43:16] And she gets to the big city.

[00:43:20] And then she ends up on trial like in five minutes.

[00:43:26] Right.

[00:43:27] And that's what I was like with Harry.

[00:43:29] I was like, fuck that guy.

[00:43:32] So that was playing her from the beginning.

[00:43:34] That part was actually very true to the book.

[00:43:37] Okay.

[00:43:38] Yeah.

[00:43:39] Yeah.

[00:43:40] All the backstory about her home planet.

[00:43:41] That's new.

[00:43:42] But I mean, the name of the planet and the fact that she came.

[00:43:46] The character came from that planet and went to the city and was like the next thing you know,

[00:43:51] it was immediately on trial.

[00:43:52] That's all like straight out of the book.

[00:43:54] Wow, which is great.

[00:43:55] So that was grounded.

[00:43:56] But yeah, but then Gale goes on this journey, right?

[00:44:00] You know, and Gale is the smartest person on the show.

[00:44:05] I think Gale is smarter than Harry.

[00:44:07] You know, I have a problem.

[00:44:08] Definitely.

[00:44:09] That's the problem.

[00:44:10] That's the whole problem.

[00:44:11] Harry.

[00:44:12] And knows it.

[00:44:13] Oh, yeah.

[00:44:14] He's always yelling at her.

[00:44:15] I know that he knows it.

[00:44:16] He knows it.

[00:44:17] She's the smartest one.

[00:44:18] Mm hmm.

[00:44:19] She had like, no, no.

[00:44:22] Oh, yeah.

[00:44:23] They're arguments of funny.

[00:44:24] I love listening to them argue with each other and they just start throwing these huge words at each other.

[00:44:29] And she's like, well, that's not.

[00:44:31] I mean, I can't even repeat it.

[00:44:32] But I had a rollback to just see them.

[00:44:35] Yeah.

[00:44:36] Yeah.

[00:44:37] Yeah.

[00:44:38] I love it when they go ahead to heck.

[00:44:39] Right.

[00:44:40] And then of course, you know, Harry like he's like a complete man.

[00:44:42] He just goes like, well, I'm just going to take control of the ship.

[00:44:45] So there.

[00:44:46] No, no, no, no, no.

[00:44:47] Not the end of the conversation.

[00:44:48] Wait.

[00:44:49] You know, it's like, oh, it's over because I got control because I'm still a robot thing.

[00:44:56] And you know, I'm in the ship.

[00:44:57] I don't like wow, really?

[00:44:59] So I was glad when he was alive again.

[00:45:01] I was like, yeah, let me just have to beat your ass.

[00:45:03] Right.

[00:45:04] And then and then salvoir, you know, I mean, even though the original character was not a warrior person,

[00:45:11] I'm not mad at her.

[00:45:13] You know, being a strong black woman, being the strong protector, being the strong fighter.

[00:45:20] You know, um, somebody got to do it with this three oh, a very empathic person and, you know,

[00:45:27] and again, well rounded character.

[00:45:30] She's smarter.

[00:45:31] She's smart too.

[00:45:32] I mean, she knows.

[00:45:33] Yeah.

[00:45:34] She's quick.

[00:45:35] That's the thing.

[00:45:36] She's decisive, which drives me crazy with what?

[00:45:38] Yeah.

[00:45:39] Oh god, she makes me so crazy, but that's who she is because she's got so much in her brain.

[00:45:44] She's going through every single little, you know, possible variant.

[00:45:48] Whereas, you know, salvoir is just like, look, my favorite scene though when she threw the things,

[00:45:55] she threw the thing out in the sand, just go to the mountain middle.

[00:45:58] Please, please.

[00:45:59] I'm not going.

[00:46:00] I am going.

[00:46:01] I should go.

[00:46:02] I said, she's like, go world.

[00:46:03] Wow.

[00:46:04] Right.

[00:46:05] Mom.

[00:46:06] You always need the practical one.

[00:46:13] Yes, no.

[00:46:14] Yes.

[00:46:15] She is it.

[00:46:16] She is it.

[00:46:17] But there's a lot of action that I really love the action that they're putting us through.

[00:46:22] I don't know if they, I think actually I thought I thought that we were about to say she got

[00:46:27] hurt in the first season.

[00:46:28] Someone who water scenes, you know, and they had her diving so much in everything, which I'm

[00:46:33] happy to see all these black women and the swimming.

[00:46:35] Thank you.

[00:46:36] Hello.

[00:46:37] Hello.

[00:46:38] And, and I, I'm, I am, I love that they are so physical in this second season and they're

[00:46:49] really just kicking some blood.

[00:46:51] They're action heroes.

[00:46:52] They are.

[00:46:53] They are in the vein of today's female in a sci-fi which is that's the way.

[00:46:59] I was thinking, I was like just like you know, Kira and Naree.

[00:47:06] Hey, baby.

[00:47:07] Hey, hey, hey, hey, you have a role that was written for a man right originally but that

[00:47:14] was played by woman why because we can because these traits are not exclusive to men.

[00:47:20] You know, and I think that I'm so if that I will be forever grateful to the show for showing

[00:47:26] these two characters in this way.

[00:47:28] Like no matter what happens, you know, it's super important for us to be seen or for us

[00:47:36] to see ourselves right.

[00:47:38] I can fly to ship, pick the ship and kick your ass.

[00:47:41] Right.

[00:47:42] I mean, or I can be Queen Serath and that outsmart you and you know like like I think Lily said

[00:47:51] it she was like, oh that's you.

[00:47:53] When we were saying, why can't I remember her name?

[00:47:58] Um, the robot.

[00:48:00] Demo's out.

[00:48:01] Demo's out.

[00:48:02] Yeah, I want to say Madam was out for some reason.

[00:48:05] We are saying that she's the one but I know Lily was like, oh, that's the one.

[00:48:11] That's the girl is the ones the pretty girl.

[00:48:14] The pretty girl with all the pretty clothes is usually the ones in your life.

[00:48:18] I know.

[00:48:19] Because you don't take them seriously.

[00:48:23] Like, you know, and they come in what a plan and they've already.

[00:48:27] They've already found you out.

[00:48:28] They knew they know what's going to work and they use everything they have to just rule your

[00:48:33] life.

[00:48:34] Oh yeah, I love watching her play day against dawn.

[00:48:38] Yeah, because she just put on he don't know what's happening.

[00:48:42] No, don is forever just being led around by his nose.

[00:48:46] But I'm so glad this time, this season at least dawn got the girl.

[00:48:53] And and yes, I have to.

[00:48:56] Yes, yes, yes.

[00:48:57] Right.

[00:48:58] That was brilliant last season.

[00:49:00] Yikes.

[00:49:01] I love that.

[00:49:02] You know, another, another brown woman that I want to give a mad shout out to you for me is,

[00:49:08] um, brother constant.

[00:49:09] Yes.

[00:49:10] Yes.

[00:49:11] Yes.

[00:49:12] That is my girl.

[00:49:13] Is a bellow, right?

[00:49:14] Is a bellowed.

[00:49:15] Is a bellowed.

[00:49:16] Locked.

[00:49:17] Locked.

[00:49:18] Okay.

[00:49:19] Oh my god.

[00:49:20] Did she fall off?

[00:49:21] What?

[00:49:22] I love her.

[00:49:23] She's so endearing.

[00:49:24] Very.

[00:49:25] She's so.

[00:49:26] She's got great lines.

[00:49:27] She has the best lines.

[00:49:28] You know, and she's so like, you know, brother comes just so self-effacing.

[00:49:33] Like, you know, like, you don't.

[00:49:35] I'm like that.

[00:49:36] You're just like kind of every, every person.

[00:49:38] Like, you're me even at all my insecurities and just doing the damn thing anyway.

[00:49:43] And laughing at myself knowing that I'm tripping over my own feet, knowing that like,

[00:49:48] I'm not executing gracefully.

[00:49:50] And like, this is not my forte.

[00:49:52] I'm not going to stand up.

[00:49:53] Like with my mother necessarily like my mother's a diva.

[00:49:56] Y'all, my mom is a true diva, right?

[00:49:58] So like she walks into her room.

[00:49:59] She's just grace and like, da da da da.

[00:50:01] And I'm like trip, trip, trip, trip, trip, trip behind you know, like, I know that.

[00:50:06] Right.

[00:50:07] I'm good that, but I have to love that about myself.

[00:50:10] And that gives me my confidence too, you know, is it?

[00:50:13] That's why I love Brother Constant.

[00:50:15] But I also love that brother Constant has faith like true.

[00:50:20] It's a, that's another aspect of black womanhood, you know, like whether it's,

[00:50:25] I don't care what you call your faith.

[00:50:27] And it doesn't have to be a religious faith.

[00:50:29] I'm not necessarily talking religious faith.

[00:50:32] But we act with faith.

[00:50:34] We step out on faith every day,

[00:50:36] and that we exist on this planet, you know, like white people walk around like I know I'm good.

[00:50:44] I mean like there's a difference like there's a privilege confidence.

[00:50:48] Right.

[00:50:49] Right.

[00:50:50] They get it every day there that were firmed to be great.

[00:50:53] Right.

[00:50:54] A firm to be white, firm to be a white woman white, uh, white man.

[00:50:58] It's everywhere everywhere.

[00:50:59] Everywhere.

[00:51:00] Everywhere.

[00:51:01] Everywhere you see everything.

[00:51:02] Do you have you guys ever searched if you use a gift or a gift?

[00:51:05] I'm not going to enter that debate.

[00:51:08] But just so everybody knows what I'm talking about, either one.

[00:51:11] It's up to you.

[00:51:12] Have you ever searched like happy birthday?

[00:51:15] Oh, like I searched happy birthday and then I put black woman with it.

[00:51:19] You have to.

[00:51:20] You have to because otherwise black women are not going to come up in the gif.

[00:51:24] Oh yes, the search.

[00:51:26] Yes.

[00:51:27] I always do.

[00:51:28] Um, a meme, a gif, gif, um, I always put black, um, capital B and then you get weird

[00:51:35] shit.

[00:51:36] Then you have to do it too.

[00:51:37] So I don't put black.

[00:51:38] So then you get the blood, the weird shit.

[00:51:40] You get weird shit.

[00:51:41] I searched specifically happy birthday, black woman and I got like 10 eye roll and sisters

[00:51:48] like with attitudes.

[00:51:49] Yep.

[00:51:50] You know, I'm like, I said happy birthday, black woman.

[00:51:53] If you just search black woman, look at all the negative.

[00:51:56] It's negative.

[00:51:57] You see search white woman and see what you could, which is all like a learning sexy happy.

[00:52:04] Yep.

[00:52:05] And jelly.

[00:52:06] You know, black woman, you get angry and um, you know, and what I love about brother constant

[00:52:13] is that brother constant knows that she's an outsider, but it's that set.

[00:52:19] It's her recognizing that she's not this other thing that gives her all her confidence and she

[00:52:24] doesn't try to be anything else, but what she is.

[00:52:27] Yeah.

[00:52:28] Yeah.

[00:52:29] Yeah.

[00:52:30] That's what I love about her.

[00:52:31] She is so okay with herself.

[00:52:32] Oh my God.

[00:52:33] So.

[00:52:34] And everything.

[00:52:35] I just love that.

[00:52:36] I mean.

[00:52:37] I don't know.

[00:52:39] She's great.

[00:52:40] She's great.

[00:52:41] Right.

[00:52:42] Right.

[00:52:43] She was the first one to run into the test of act to get out to get over there.

[00:52:47] You know, he was in the thing and she's like, well we're going to go get him right.

[00:52:51] Right.

[00:52:52] There's a lot of challenges going in.

[00:52:54] Thumbs up their butts, you know, I got the water and the food.

[00:52:57] Okay.

[00:52:58] I love her.

[00:52:59] I love her.

[00:53:00] Yeah.

[00:53:01] I got a shout out for one other one too that I love the uh, the makeup that they did on this one.

[00:53:05] She bends light.

[00:53:06] Oh please.

[00:53:07] I was right next one.

[00:53:08] Oh yes.

[00:53:09] Yes.

[00:53:10] Oh my gosh.

[00:53:11] With all of us I watched East Enders, all right.

[00:53:15] You're sick for these vendors.

[00:53:17] She's on East Enders as well.

[00:53:18] Is that where she started?

[00:53:20] Yes.

[00:53:21] She's almost not recognizable under that makeup she has on which is just I just stopped the TV screen

[00:53:29] to see what they did to her because I loved the way she looked but I love the.

[00:53:34] I love the space.

[00:53:35] She bends.

[00:53:36] She bends white.

[00:53:37] She bends light.

[00:53:38] Yes.

[00:53:39] Like that her mother.

[00:53:40] I love that her mother.

[00:53:41] What was the mother?

[00:53:42] She is center.

[00:53:43] Something like that.

[00:53:44] So the mother.

[00:53:45] I love that the mother.

[00:53:46] With a plan she wanted to, you know, she just came because she wanted to see her daughter and then to find out that they are also looked there.

[00:53:57] They're like slaves.

[00:53:58] Right.

[00:53:59] There's an empire and now, you know, that whole rules that they went through which was.

[00:54:04] I mean, I don't ever, I don't want to say what happened because you need to watch it.

[00:54:08] I mean, there are so many, there are two rules that go on in the last two episodes that will blow your mind because I don't think anybody caught on.

[00:54:17] And then the outcomes.

[00:54:19] One was heartbreaking and one was thank God.

[00:54:23] Right.

[00:54:24] Right.

[00:54:25] And I don't want to go into that because I think you should really even if.

[00:54:29] Just even if you watched it, watch it again.

[00:54:32] Yeah.

[00:54:33] So good because they told you that this was going to happen like this was planned.

[00:54:37] You know, like.

[00:54:39] Oh, so there were a lot of loses.

[00:54:42] So there were three rules is not two because even with empire, there were roses.

[00:54:46] So yes.

[00:54:47] So every storyline had a rules that actually worked out pretty well for most people.

[00:54:52] Yeah.

[00:54:53] Yeah, yeah.

[00:54:54] For the majority of people.

[00:54:55] Yeah.

[00:54:56] So good, so good, so good.

[00:54:57] And I think that the show stands on its own.

[00:55:01] You know, I think that if you are a foundation book lover, just divorce yourself from that.

[00:55:10] And just enjoy the show for what it is.

[00:55:13] Yeah.

[00:55:14] You know, don't get stuck in the book.

[00:55:16] Just enjoy it because even though this is such a departure from the book in so many ways.

[00:55:22] It's still really good television.

[00:55:24] It's really incredible.

[00:55:26] It's really wonderful storytelling.

[00:55:28] Yeah.

[00:55:29] It's wonderful direction.

[00:55:30] It's wonderful production.

[00:55:31] It's everything everything.

[00:55:33] Everything the acting is tapped to everything about it is tapped here and wonderful.

[00:55:37] And okay.

[00:55:39] Sabrina says, no.

[00:55:42] Hey, hey, keep going.

[00:55:45] You know, so I don't know.

[00:55:47] I just I'm I am a big fan of the show.

[00:55:50] Yeah, you know, even though I was confused as hell.

[00:55:53] For a lot of it.

[00:55:55] I love the confusion.

[00:55:57] I love trying to help.

[00:56:00] And going back and understanding like, ah, this is like I'm a lover of science fiction and fantasy.

[00:56:06] And why I've always read these books since the earliest age because my mind likes to be engaged in solving a puzzle.

[00:56:12] You're always dropped into a world that you don't know much about.

[00:56:16] And you're in your along for the ride to find out about it and these characters and what's going on.

[00:56:21] So I mean, those of us who love this genre, these genres, you know, who loves speculative fiction.

[00:56:27] We we like to think.

[00:56:30] You know, I mean, we like our easy stuff too.

[00:56:33] We like our brain pudding as well.

[00:56:35] But we like to think, you know, and this show will make you do that and it's worth it to think.

[00:56:40] You know, and there's also some gorgeous dialogue in the show.

[00:56:44] I mean, just so sometimes it's just so poetic that you just got to go back and listen to it again.

[00:56:51] You know, and I think that that's one thing that I missed on the first watch.

[00:56:56] Like you can watch it many times.

[00:56:59] And you're always going to get something new out of it.

[00:57:02] You should watch it many times.

[00:57:03] Very textured, very layered.

[00:57:05] And you talk about gorgeous.

[00:57:07] The way it looks.

[00:57:09] I mean, I love that they are not in sound stages.

[00:57:12] You know, right?

[00:57:13] It's all on location.

[00:57:15] They're all on.

[00:57:16] Wow.

[00:57:17] And I think I was listening on the podcast like the first season or something or the second.

[00:57:22] See, they shot like one of the season they ended up shooting in like 10 different countries.

[00:57:26] Wow.

[00:57:27] It could look like it.

[00:57:28] It looked like it.

[00:57:29] Yeah, I believe it because it looked like it.

[00:57:31] It was just in a place that I've never seen on the screen before.

[00:57:35] You know, some places you're like, you know, that looks like you.

[00:57:40] Right.

[00:57:41] I mean, it's true.

[00:57:42] I know we can do it again.

[00:57:46] Well, you know New York again.

[00:57:48] Yeah.

[00:57:49] Central Park again.

[00:57:50] Okay.

[00:57:51] You know, it does slash Central Park again.

[00:57:55] But it just looks so gorgeous.

[00:57:57] It's, I mean, that's a, that's a character.

[00:58:00] You know, the location because it.

[00:58:03] Everything they do has to do with those locations, you know, the dialogue goes around the location.

[00:58:10] The, you know, it's just.

[00:58:11] They just did such a great and they do good.

[00:58:14] Good some good space porn too.

[00:58:16] So the space porn is good.

[00:58:18] It's incredible.

[00:58:19] I want to give a shout out to whoever's making.

[00:58:22] The miniatures or the drawings or the renderings were ever.

[00:58:26] They're called.

[00:58:27] I am giving you the Emmy right now.

[00:58:29] You are.

[00:58:31] I enjoyed watching it.

[00:58:33] Sometimes when I actually, you know, I really, I stopped it to just look at the picture.

[00:58:38] Yeah.

[00:58:39] To see what all they had in there and I just love the jump chips enough space.

[00:58:45] They invict this.

[00:58:46] They have this.

[00:58:47] Just thought of that.

[00:58:48] Yes.

[00:58:49] Was incredible.

[00:58:50] You know, yes.

[00:58:51] They did the thing.

[00:58:52] I love that.

[00:58:53] Mm hmm.

[00:58:54] And I know that we got to, we're about to wrap it up on here.

[00:58:58] You know, I just want to say that the.

[00:59:01] Our main impetus for doing this show today about foundation was not just that we love the show, but we love what it does.

[00:59:11] To center blackness in the universe right and in the future.

[00:59:18] And you know, and it's just such a cool trick that's being played on up ending this version of storytelling that like started with Isaac Asimov who came out of his own tradition.

[00:59:32] All white, white, white, white, white and white male, male, male, that first book had one woman I think in there and she was a side character and she was a shrew.

[00:59:41] You know, to recenter like just by placing these women at the center of the storytelling.

[00:59:48] It starts to tell a whole nother story.

[00:59:51] You know that I don't think Isaac Asimov ever would have dreamed of telling you know but it's right.

[00:59:57] I think he would exactly I think he would have liked it.

[01:00:00] Yes.

[01:00:01] You know, so it's like the it's the germ you know and it gave the seed germinated and grew into this tree.

[01:00:13] Like so I love how we are centered in this in this universe.

[01:00:19] So that's my that's my joy with the show.

[01:00:22] That's my human.

[01:00:24] Yeah, we're not we're not covered up and make up.

[01:00:27] We're not alien. We're not other human.

[01:00:30] I love it now.

[01:00:32] So thanks guys everybody at Apple and everybody on the crew of foundation in all capacities, you know, thanks for giving us some great stuff.

[01:00:44] It's amazing. We thoroughly enjoy it.

[01:00:46] So can't wait for season three.

[01:00:48] Yes.

[01:00:49] So many so many questions.

[01:00:51] So many questions.

[01:00:52] Oh my words so many questions.

[01:00:54] I know.

[01:00:55] I know.

[01:00:56] Now I feel like I'm going to go back and just do straight season one and two all three together.

[01:01:01] We're going to pretend it's Star Trek.

[01:01:03] Okay.

[01:01:04] Yep.

[01:01:05] Yeah, it's it's high praise.

[01:01:07] That is high praise foundation.

[01:01:09] Hey Sabrina, you want to let people know where they can tell us their thoughts about foundation if they have some that they want to share with us?

[01:01:16] Sure will.

[01:01:17] So you can find us at sci fi sisters dot com.

[01:01:20] That's s y f y s i s t a s dot com.

[01:01:24] Join us on the mothership and the sci fi sisters book club both on Facebook on tiktok, Instagram and threads.

[01:01:32] We are sci fi dot sisters and we're also on the Twitter or X as sci fi sisters.

[01:01:40] Become a patron of sci fi sisters today at patreon dot com forward slash sci fi sisters.

[01:01:47] The Trek Geek Networks presenting sponsor is fan sets go to fan set dot com.

[01:01:53] Depends and memorabilia from all your favorite franchises visit fan sets dot com and use trec deeps all caps for an exclusive 10% discount after listening to this podcast please rate us and leave us a review.

[01:02:08] We might just read it on an upcoming episode before you finish.

[01:02:12] I'm sorry, just please remember to subscribe to our YouTube channel that sci fi sisters ink please subscribe rate like post share.

[01:02:23] I don't care what you do just hit the lake.

[01:02:26] Thank you.

[01:02:27] Thanks everybody for listening.

[01:02:29] We got a shout out the baddest engineer in all universes that would be dose the anonymous one.

[01:02:36] Dose dose dose dose dose dose dose dose dose.

[01:02:39] He's responsible for all the music you hear on our show as well as our production services and if you're in need of his services hit him up on Instagram at dose underscore

[01:02:49] the anonymous underscore one and we love you guys.

[01:02:53] We'll see you next time peace loving hair grease.

[01:02:56] you