Tron

[00:00:01] Do not change the station. What you're hearing is coming from the big sci-fi podcast in the Trek Geeks Podcast Network Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of

[00:00:11] Wait a minute receiving a new transmission. What is that? What am I seeing? It's big. It's really big. Oh my god Welcome to season 6 of the big sci-fi podcast the biggest sci-fi podcast in the galaxy

[00:00:25] Join our crew Adina Brian Chris and Steve as we travel the Milky Way looking for the best that science fiction has to offer Make sure you're strapped in tight because we're going to have a lot of fun talking all things sci-fi

[00:00:39] Stay tuned to this channel for the next audio transmission Welcome to today's electrifying episode of the big sci-fi podcast Today we are diving into the digital realm to revisit the groundbreaking universe of Tron And it's visually stunning sequel Tron Legacy these iconic films pioneered computer generated imagery and

[00:01:05] Also left a lasting impact on pop culture in the sci-fi genre From light cycles to the grid. We're going to unpack everything that makes Tron a cult favorite for some anyway

[00:01:18] But before I do I would love for my co-hosts to introduce themselves Brian. Hey, it's Brian from Ohio and Steve Hello, it's Steve from Los Angeles, California. So happy to be here with my best friends

[00:01:32] Awesome. Well, and I'm Adina and thank you Steve. That was really sweet from Maryland and we're missing out I don't know why I had to just add it like that and we're missing our fourth co-host tonight Chris

[00:01:44] But we don't feel bad because he just got married. Yay, Chris So we're sorry you're not here Chris, but but we get we get it we understand your priorities. It's okay Yeah, yeah Only once though man only once to us. Oh, he's so tough

[00:02:03] And well, please listeners if you love the big sci-fi podcast then please leave us a review on your favorite platform reviews are what help us get seen more than almost anything else believe it or not and

[00:02:14] If you're on Facebook come and find and join the big sci-fi podcast Facebook group. Okay. Now if everybody's ready let's talk about Tron and And the first question I have for you guys is well

[00:02:27] When did you first watch Tron and or Tron legacy? So Tron came out in 1982? Yes Did you watch it back then? Did you watch it growing up? Who wants to start? You know, I was a mere three years old when this film came out

[00:02:44] And I rushed right to the movie theater Anyway like can somebody lift me up so I can see You know, I was Sucking my thumb and having a good old time. No, I watched this In an edited for TV version. I'm sure sometime in the

[00:03:04] late 80s perhaps even early 90s would have been the first time and I remember watching it at the time. My dad was real excited about it. Mm-hmm I was like what is going on? I had no clue what was up or down in that film and

[00:03:25] Why were there people in real life and the same people inside the program? What was that? You know, so I just I remember being utterly confused thinking it was kind of cool But I had no idea what was going on in reality. So that was that's my original

[00:03:40] Experience with this film. Well, and then what about Tron legacy that I saw when it came out When Disney Plus put it on Okay, I've seen that in the last six months ish That was was that the first time you saw it six months ago. Yes. Yeah, okay

[00:03:58] Okay, what about you Steve? Well saw Tron when it came out in the theater in 1982. So I saw it then Again, you know, you were okay five years old In in in I would like to say in dog years, but that would make me much older so anyway

[00:04:18] Actually wouldn't be in dog years if you said it was five times four or seven. Anyway So we saw Tron in the theater when it came out and then the same thing with Tron legacy when they came out in

[00:04:29] 2010 we saw that in the theater as well. So but again for this I watched Watched Tron about two months ago on Disney Plus and then today for this watch Tron legacy and was able to Compare and contrast the two. Yeah

[00:04:49] Yeah, what about you with Dean? I just watched Tron yesterday the original on Disney Plus so So yeah, I don't remember when I first saw it. I know I saw it as a kid at some point

[00:05:04] Probably not in the theater just because we didn't go to the theater a lot. I more likely saw it on VHS Some point in the mid 80s and what is a VHS for our listeners who think you just spoke another language?

[00:05:18] I know I know no, I have a feeling that most of our listeners probably do know But yes on a on a tape, you know, I had a VCR

[00:05:29] I one of these machines and it was recorded on a magnetic ish tape and anyway, and you know that's coming back again Everything that's old is new again Polaroid film

[00:05:42] Regular 35 millimeter film record players and I think now people are they're reselling or starting to sell VHS machines again I mean as Just like a kick for vintage for people who like vintage stuff or I know I just think it's you know

[00:05:59] It's cool to be old I guess I don't know but that's just what it is it's I mean record sales are out out running CDs these days and Records are how old you know? wild that would be wild if VHS if they actually started making movies and

[00:06:17] Putting them in VHS format That's weird. I know all right. That's weird. It's just it's like it wasn't common. He's just making a few stating fact Okay, well so So if you had asked me though up until recently, what's the actual plot of Tron?

[00:06:37] I wouldn't have been able to tell you I only like I think I only retained The kind of like a few of those images in my head, right? You know of kind of like the grid and the bike and and that's it

[00:06:49] So I could not have told you anything about the plot and then I didn't see Tron legacy It's always been kind of in the back of my my mind

[00:06:56] I remember when it came out I was like, oh, you know, I should probably check this out and one thing led to another I didn't you know 2010 was kind of a busy year for me because that was when my older son was born

[00:07:06] So I was kind of busy dealing with you know being a mom for the first time. So I only so I rewatched Tron this weekend and Then Tron legacy Okay, and we rewatched Tron. I forced

[00:07:22] Chose it as our family movie night. I like just declared it was my choice and I'm choosing Tron Like a use of the word force yes She played the mom card. Yes, I did I was like this is my it's my turn, you know

[00:07:37] I've had enough, you know of other choices of movies that we've seen a thousand times already right, so I was choosing and What was interesting is my five and a half year old Was glued to watching it he Wow, he was

[00:07:56] We weren't those things we weren't sure if it was gonna hold his attention or what? No, he watched all the way through and was attentive, you know attentive to it the whole way through

[00:08:05] My almost 14 year old on the other hand fell asleep about 20 minutes in and woke up about 10 minutes before it ended and Wasn't terribly upset that he like missed it. Mm-hmm

[00:08:18] So yeah, and actually and the funny thing is so as I was watching it I'm still not sure I can tell you what the pot was There's a lot of and this is really kind of weird for me to say because this is you know

[00:08:31] Everyone who knows me knows. I love all things computers and robots and AI and all these things so And as well as things like I want to completely utterly love this movie to death and

[00:08:45] And I don't I like it, you know, I mean so it is really hard and I was struggling the whole the whole way through And hoping I'd feel a little bit differently about Tron legacy and we'll talk about that in a minute

[00:08:59] But what was interesting is and I was wondering the whole time is like again is my five and a half year old What is he? What does he how is he like?

[00:09:06] like paying attention and not losing it and to him at the end he made a comment that was like It was basically the blue guys versus the red guys and the blue guys won and

[00:09:17] It was he just boiled it down to like some kind of simple thing and that was that was enough for him Interesting and he was right as a most as opposed to in the second film The white guys won and the red guys lost Well, I that's interesting

[00:09:36] So very now that I hear Your son's Thinking processing through what the story is about. He's not wrong No in that and you know, that's very interesting. But also I just have to say this Or we get much further is the great David Warner being in this film

[00:09:58] Of all sorts of acting Legacy stuff, but you know, we we love him for Star Trek 5. We love him as as the Klingon Chancellor and Star Trek 6 he played an incredible Cardassian Captor there are four lights, you know

[00:10:22] And in so that was kind of fun I had forgotten he was in this film actually ah So yeah, Dina. I'm kind of with you like Watching it again just yesterday at the time of recording this I

[00:10:37] Was really intrigued and I remember as a kid not like being just kind of interested in it But going I have no idea what's going on. So therefore I wasn't all that interested

[00:10:48] I was like I'll be fine never to watch this again, you know, but watching it again. I appreciate The graphics much more for what they did and I Just you know, it's it's I agree with you Like the some of it is a little bit convoluted and

[00:11:08] kind of where Where does it all smooth out for me? Like it's it's kind of like they had all these ideas and brought it all together and then in legacy We see more of a fleshing out. It seems like if I remember

[00:11:22] To where we see this world, but you know what what really got me? I'm sorry Steve. I'll let you know Okay, what really got me is in legacy if I recall there is a very much a religious kind of religious religious theme to this and

[00:11:40] I didn't remember that in the original film, but there are hints of that In the original film that I caught this time. Do you believe in the user? Yeah Yeah, that was to me. Yeah, of course. I didn't catch that as a kid probably either

[00:11:56] But yeah, but even still, you know The okay it was gorgeous both movies were gorgeous, you know Tron The original Tron was gorgeous for the time and yes, I can absolutely still appreciate What that was and you know in 2010 Tron legacy this yeah

[00:12:13] I the the CGI on that was amazing. I mean how they like when the programs like shattered You know into all these I mean, there's just so many things that were just gorgeous about it

[00:12:26] But I was still struggling through legacy with the world building and the consistency of the world building and and trying to wrap my head around this And I I'm you know as a writer

[00:12:39] I try to think about well, how would I fix it and how would I do it better? And I was really struggling because I'm not really sure It's like they were in some ways You find you too much slash like in little random things

[00:12:56] Just to solve some had to fill in a lot of blanks in the first a lot of spaces in the in the first film I think you know, I mean we just kind of come up on on Flynn's and

[00:13:10] We don't really learn a lot about him other than he made this game and the other guys stole all the rights to it Or whatever, you know And so yeah

[00:13:18] It's kind of it's kind of this hip and I love that old couple walking through that game video game rooms Remember that That was fantastic whose parents were those

[00:13:30] Got in the film or grandparents and yeah, but anyways, yeah, I felt like the first one. There's just a lot of gaps that if they would have had more time they could have fleshed out it would have honestly, I I

[00:13:42] Didn't care about the care like the characters all that much even the little love story. There was kind of yeah you know yeah, no, I mean and that's a You know they say so in the first movie what I was struggling with is

[00:13:59] They just kind of made things happen to make it convenient for the story to the big one being all Sudden Flynn kind of like can magically control. Yes Environment it's like they did nothing to set that up other than he's the main character

[00:14:15] And as a user he has that freedom to do that. That's the difference is opposed I think that's the point they were making was he you know their program so they have to follow a set pattern But as a user he could modify the pattern

[00:14:31] Granted, you're absolutely right what you're saying. It was simplistic for the time I think they were spending more on the graphics the wow factor that it was that they made something of this nature and You're right Brian the evil character of depicted by David Warner was

[00:14:54] Great the in legacy the evil character is Q So frightening that's so scary and then you know in the original Tron of course David Warner in reality is the bad guy who steals the program and takes away the rights of Flynn in the second film the

[00:15:17] Company is run by an idiot Who doesn't yeah Do you know when Windows I think was when Windows 89 came out and and there was Bill up on stage on presenting it to the press into the world and the blue screen of death appeared and

[00:15:41] He didn't know what to do to fix it and he's yelling at people fixes fixes fixes And so the scene in the beginning of that when they're showing off their version number 15 or whatever it is and the guy and you know, the son of when Sam he

[00:15:59] Sabotages it and he looks like an idiot in the nation. I get the only thing I go back was thinking about that event happening too, but But the other thing and I just want to finish is that these two movies are the same film

[00:16:12] Nearly the same storyline the same characters the same devices It's just that in the new movie everything has been upgraded But we don't know how that happened unless that's what Flynn was doing in the internally They don't explain that yeah, they don't explain really what he was doing

[00:16:34] But I think you said something a minute ago that made me have a thought about with clue in the second film And I think this was one of the things that was convoluted about the second film. So in the first one

[00:16:46] It was kind of clear in the good You know who the the good guy and the bad guy was and it's reinforced by the visual It was like, you know so David Warner's character both in the real world and then Sark in the in the

[00:17:00] Digital world they're both the bad, you know where now in the new movie you see the visual of Jeff Bridges character you see him as a good guy and as a bad guy and that's kind of

[00:17:12] It really limits your ability to like again get emotionally attached and care about who are you supposed to care about? So I think that was kind of like a not a not a great

[00:17:23] Decision on their part and they decided to have you know, okay. We're gonna digitally young a youngify Young a youngify Yeah, Jeff Bridges but when he's the old guy in the ropes all I could think about was the big Lebowski

[00:17:45] It was laid back he's a lot philosophical that's what the big Lebowski was, you know, and I'm going it's It just was Even fighting his own self and then there was a lot of dead times in legacy where they just kind of and an action and then and

[00:18:06] An action and it just it wasn't really It wasn't Considering that Tron was made for 17 million and legacy was made for 170 million dollars. Oh my goodness Wow, the only difference is The technology yeah and and Jeff Bridges is probably commanding a higher salary

[00:18:30] Yeah, I tell you what though I was really I thought a powerful scene in the original Tron Was when he they break into What's it called Ecom? Yes, and calm or whatever calm calm. Yeah and calm right and and

[00:18:47] He sits down that his ex-girlfriend or whatever the heck she was they didn't even really explain that right at all it's more of what you gathered and He sits down in that scene where the laser Takes him, you know starts to it starts to

[00:19:08] And he goes backwards like this that was quite visually stunning and dramatic That was like when that happened I was like, whoa that's a pretty cool effect now and That had to be just tremendous Originally for people to see that type of thing on screen

[00:19:26] But that to me was kind of a special moment in the film where he is You know, I just I love the whole and you can't see me at home. I'm trying to mimic it You should see it folks if you could he looks like Keanu Reeves

[00:19:40] In the matrix, I mean I did the whole I look like Brian Donahue trying to look like Keanu Reeves His limbo stick, okay You know, that's the other thing is that I believe they shot that sequence at Lawrence Livermore of that laboratory up in Northern, California

[00:20:00] Because they're the only place that had that type of Equipment to make it look right. I believe that's where they shot that you know, that's the cool thing about film That like when we see the outside of a building in a film or a TV series

[00:20:16] When we're on the inside, it's not necessarily the same building right? It could be a soundstage. It could be another building Or across the world for crying Yes, yes, you're like like we know so many shows are shot in

[00:20:33] Toronto now, you know in Canada and even like famously suits New York based show Mostly filmed on the streets of Toronto You just need a few location shots to put though in your mind The other thing was in legacy all the equipment that he had

[00:20:54] In the lab has been now moved to his facility or his is gaming Place in the underground secret lair that nobody ever knew where it was or whatever Also the fact that when Sam shows up he flows it throws a couple of breaker switches and everything works

[00:21:12] That I had yeah, that was if kids if you don't pay your power bill. Guess what they turn the power off, right? There's no way they could flip throw a switch and get the power back on unless he's been

[00:21:25] Maintaining it but we don't know that we you know, is that an assumption we make or whatever? But yeah, the fact that it was in I mean the neighborhood was a completely abandoned

[00:21:34] 100% abandoned neighborhood if someone was still paying the the bill so I mean like I guess it's technically possible as the dude being like The CEO of a big company he possibly could have had something set up to do that

[00:21:46] Especially if he knew he was going in and out of this thing So it is that out fine And I'm okay also with the concept that he had a bunch of equipment moved to like this other place because we're talking about once Yeah, yes

[00:22:02] Once he you know was a CEO he's gonna have some resources to do some stuff like that legacy I also I just like the name that you just came up with which is a perfect thing for Lord of the Rings

[00:22:15] Flynn the elder so I have it so I've been doing that a lot lately Especially when I think about time travel. I recently completely binged an audiobook series by Scott Meyer It's called the magic 2.0 series and it's great. It's great. I love it so much

[00:22:32] It starts with a book called off to be the wizard and it's a mix of fantasy and sci-fi where Basically, they discover that like some computer programs are responsible for all the universe There's time travel and there's a recurring character that

[00:22:48] She's there as her younger self and her older self and so they call her Brit the younger and Brit the elder and so Okay, I didn't just come up with that I had that in my would go I hear that Peter Jackson is making

[00:23:02] sequels to Lord of the Rings or prequels again or something really and if Jeff Bridges is in it I I mean, I'm gonna go see these films no matter what but Jeff Bridges as as a Some sort of wizard Maybe he could be Flynn

[00:23:18] You know, I do want to say I have never thought of Jeff Bridges this way until watching these two films recently But there are certain actors that have something about their face in particular their eyes

[00:23:32] That is just magic on screen. Oh, yeah other other people who had this If we go way back with like kind of a Cary Grant Just something, you know, we see like or even even like the Rat Pack Dean Martin Frank

[00:23:49] So they had just something a spark in their eyes. It just made them cool and and I'm gonna progress here, but you go to like the oceans 11 films with Brad Pitt and What is the name George Clooney?

[00:24:03] Those two guys have something in their eyes that just make them cool on screen and and they captured the essence of kind Of the Rat Pack I think better than all the other actors In those films, but Jeff Bridges has that spark even in the original Tron

[00:24:19] There's something in his eyes that makes me go. I like this guy. He's cool It really is his cheekbone Well, but you brought up a good point and you're right because in legacy when they're on the what you call it the The

[00:24:39] Solar sail solar solar. Yeah the solar crap and he's in the you know kneeling position he's Meditating and then his he opens his eyes and they open up and you're right

[00:24:51] I mean that caught my attention of his awakening and and that's acting with your eyes, which is really good Yeah, I'm going back a ways too But one of my favorite Western actors not not Western in the world But like cowboy Westerns is Gary Cooper

[00:25:09] I knew one of the best Westerns of all time in my opinion still to this day But there's a story with him That he was very kind of tone. He was not a flamboyant actor

[00:25:22] He wasn't like a John Wayne who was a good actor and but John Wayne was very animated Gary Cooper was much more withheld within he did a ton with his eyes

[00:25:35] Mm-hmm. There's a story of one particular director saying Gary. We need more. I didn't see anything and he said watch it again Mm-hmm, and then he watched it and he saw it in his eyes and he went oh

[00:25:49] That's so good, you know, as I think Jeff Bridges is one of those actors. He just got those eyes I think I'm act really well You could probably put a ton of makeup on this guy alien makeup and his eyes would still do the job. Yeah. Yeah

[00:26:03] Yeah, no, he's He's a very charming, you know, I mean between him and his brother Bo. He's the more Charming character where Bo is more of the you know, the gritty kind of a guy

[00:26:16] But then again, yes, you said he's done Westerns Jeff and and he's come across as that same type of character So very versatile they learned well from their dad their dad taught them well how to be good actors Yeah, the dad being Lloyd Bridges yes, yes

[00:26:33] So Adina, yes I guess I am a little surprised. I was expecting you to come out Absolutely loving these films. I know so I'm a little surprised Because I well I really truly enjoyed

[00:26:51] The original Tron yesterday when I watched it. I it was I understand why I didn't understand it As a kid I understand why I didn't understand as a kid. I understand why both of my kids had the reactions that they did

[00:27:06] It was you know, there was enough action and just I think the the kind of the bright neon stuff kept my younger one And again because at some point it was simple enough to just basically say Red and blue good and bad

[00:27:19] But I understand why my older kid who is looking for more sophisticated stuff just Could you mention that in the past yeah, and yeah, and I think I'm I'm kind of there as well so the thing that I really I love the idea of

[00:27:35] personificating like you like taking Computer elements and taking bits and bytes and like I love the idea of anthropomorphizing that stuff. I love it I love the concept but I need it to Hold together in its own thing and they didn't give enough information to make that worthwhile

[00:27:57] And especially like when we get to Tron legacy, so it was you know, I could probably fill in the gaps on Tron But then we get to Tron legacy. They introduced these characters and kind of sort of I'm gonna say factions ease

[00:28:11] But they didn't really tie it all together and how does this exist in a digital world, right? Right, so it just I couldn't I couldn't do it Go ahead. Oh, sorry Steve. I just I think that watching the original Tron I Was going man

[00:28:31] You know what film this could remind me of is the Hunger Games in a way when they're fighting and doing and all this stuff You know Except of course Hunger Games is much more. Yeah, much more explained and background all that stuff

[00:28:45] But it like if it was just and maybe it was a technology thing but maybe some of those things would have been more exciting for me if there were somehow a crowd watching them throw The frisbee around or you know, I don't know

[00:29:03] But then again the concept is different than and then later on in in legacy, you know, there is Q and he's got his giant army of What minions or whatever they are, you know reconverted programs? What do they do with it? Nothing. It's still just the battle between

[00:29:26] Jeff Bridges and Jeff Bridges and Jeff Bridges loses to Jeff Bridges and yeah, and then Jeff whatever happened Yeah, what happened to Flynn? Did he just stay there was he absorbed? Hey guys, it's Brian with the big sci-fi we are here at Trek Long Island

[00:29:46] 2024 having a really good time. I'm just kind of cruising around the vendor room talking to people seeing what's going on and what's for sale and something that has caught my eye is

[00:29:58] My new friend Andrew from Trek a texture who does all sorts of amazing things with wood and With Star Trek with Star Wars I'm gonna introduce you to Andrew here

[00:30:09] Let him kind of take over the microphone and share what he does and where you can find his amazing artwork Hi everybody. My name is Andrew by trade I am an architect which during the kovat years got a little slow

[00:30:23] unfortunately, and from that because I am as some people told me a PhD level knowledge of Star Trek guy. I need something for my idle hands to do So I decided to deal into the artwork of Star Trek Unfortunately from probably many of you have known

[00:30:41] Star Trek has a lack of fine art and unique items in the convention and just in the ether in general So I took it upon myself to hopefully change that I took a lot of the artwork

[00:30:53] I've originally done that were signed by our other actors and other things I produced over the years and turned them into three-dimensional wood art models Originally they started out with the Starship scenes and some of the interior sets and then it kind of went down the rabbit

[00:31:07] hole to designing entire Starships Legacy models LED lights coasters you name it I then expanded out towards the Star Wars world because they need their love to doctor who a bit of Nintendo Etc, etc being that the architecture background has made me make beautiful artwork fine detail and

[00:31:29] Hopefully would you guys consider screen accurate? Representations it'd be great for everyone to take a look at that when you have a chance You can find me on Instagram at trek a texture also my website trek a texture comm TREK a

[00:31:45] Tecture in case people need to figure that out and I hope you have a good look and hope you enjoy it all Thank you very much. Thank you, Andrew. Make sure you check all that stuff. I'm telling you guys. It's phenomenal artwork

[00:31:58] You're gonna love it. You're gonna want to buy as much of it as you can. So check that out, Andrew Thanks again, my friend. Thank you live long and prosper So you've mentioned also that there is another Tron movie coming out there is

[00:32:17] 2025 called I think you wrote down and I looked it up Aries. There is no trailer for it. Yes. I did not see anything So the question is is it all gonna take place in a cell phone now?

[00:32:30] Well, but even 2010 I feel like even into the 2010 they could have Fit it into modern networking and modern computer systems and they didn't even try they didn't even try and again I not that they had to try not that this has to be right quote unquote real

[00:32:48] But it I don't feel like they tried to just even make it stick together in any in any way of digital enos, so like back in in 1982 When anything computing was new to almost anybody?

[00:33:02] Anybody yeah simply calling it a program worked that that part, you know, like some little bits of it worked but now in 2010 I feel like they should have maybe

[00:33:12] You know differentiate between like packets because you know network traffic is defined by packets and there are different kinds of packets And I feel like they could have probably used some modern real terminology to describe so you have network packets versus you have maybe network data or

[00:33:31] You've got headers and and this is actually almost make me want to write a story where I anthropomorphize all the actual real Data things that are happening inside a computer and inside a network ladies and gentlemen when Adina is not writing

[00:33:46] She is actually writing some more thinking about writing Well, there was one scene in legacy where where? Sam says oh it's on Wi-Fi and he goes what's that? Right, so then he's been trapped in this machine Well before Wi-Fi even existed

[00:34:05] Well, but where is he really see that? I guess that's the thing is like where is he actually really trapped and I think that's the the The thing is cuz then you come back. I mean he got Right. No Just Sam when did came back?

[00:34:20] When the younger came back. Yes. Remember this the Sun comes up with right, right? Yeah, yeah, and he stays behind we don't know what happens to him But again, you're right when he went back when he went back into the machine at some point after

[00:34:39] The last Tron movie the first Tron movie. Excuse me We don't know where he is At least we knew that he was part of the program that was running at Ncom Here originally but in this one when Sam is sucked into the the digital universe

[00:34:58] Where'd he go? I mean was he in the why is he in the worldwide web or what? Well, no, he can't know he can't be he can't be and and I think you know now that I'm thinking about it is given that

[00:35:09] Lindy Elder had brought all this equipment into The video game basement. Mm-hmm. That was probably an isolated system. He probably just had whatever isolated system from the lab

[00:35:22] So it's not wasn't just a laser it was a laser in an isolated system not networked to anything else in modern So it's just this one. So maybe that's all it is. It is just this one

[00:35:32] Isolated computer and that's where this is all happening, but it would have to been upgraded the software somehow some way to create The universe that appears in legacy compared to the universe appeared in Tron evolved itself Okay, so we saw

[00:35:50] Yeah, sorry go ahead I think about the Nanites from Star Trek next generation Season 3 episode 1 evolution when the Nanites get loose and then they basically evolve So I would say think of it like that. It's there's some kind of evolution happening there. I

[00:36:07] also wonder though if it's just the difference in Technology of filmmaking too if they yes, of course if they just said let's just make it look modern Without explanation of you know, would people go see a film with the same exact type of graphics or no similar to

[00:36:25] Unless they want to play your pong. Okay, that's fine You know, yeah But again, I feel like if for for any of the characters to not know anything about the real world That means they have to truly be I so you know

[00:36:36] They have to be super cut off super isolated and so yeah It may be that whole world existed in the one, you know The one machine or set of machines he had in his basement. That's true

[00:36:46] But they don't clarify that we just have to assume these things yeah, and I was I was very taken aback Legacy is a beautiful film The cinematography is gorgeous. The effects are pretty good the young Jeff Bridges

[00:37:03] Yeah, there were moments where I thought it looked really good moments where I thought that's it didn't look good But it was probably phenomenal for 2010. You said it came out. Yeah, blue people away

[00:37:16] That technology was there but watching the original I was still blown away by how sharp it looked It still holds up to a degree is it the best-looking film from that era maybe not but I just It's still no

[00:37:33] I've got a feeling that it might be one of the from that time in 1982 compared to what was out there It really it was an animated film it was really I mean when I saw it it was I was blown away Mm-hmm. I remember being that way just

[00:37:50] Because again, it was 1982 and if you had a next-team computer you had a lot of power on hand You know your head was the five and a quarter inch floppy disk that could hold about 800 no 640 bytes of information. So, you know, I mean it was it was amazing

[00:38:09] Compared to what was out there. But again So you upgrade it completely for 2010? You give it a tremendous a welfare Like you said a lot more digital power to be able to produce an even better film

[00:38:22] Yeah, you know, but again is it a story wise is it a better film and the answer is I think No Compared to the original Tron, but I also don't think story wise the original Tron was great. So To me they're about it was it's definitely

[00:38:39] Effects-driven like films are effects driven With some good players and actors in them that make it believable at least, you know Like like that's the thing is you put terrible actors in the original Tron film It had good actors in it. Yeah, let's pull off this fantastic

[00:38:58] Fantasy thing, you know, I mean it's just it's tremendous. It's a well done all the way around What was about the music? Oh, thank you. You just thank you a demon

[00:39:08] You just got that into my I was thinking the same thing. Go ahead Brian. What did you think of the music? I thought it was pretty good Not you know, again, it's not gonna be a soundtrack

[00:39:18] I go and listen to like some other films that are class have classic soundtracks to them But it was interesting. I felt like it never got in the way I felt like it helped with the drama and helped me

[00:39:30] Get excited when I needed to and go all when I needed to and was this for Tron or Tron legacy I'll have to watch it again to remember to watch that

[00:39:41] You know what got me about legacy was when they're in the club with the blonde haired gentleman whose name I can't remember this tame at this moment and they showed the two DJs up in the booth and I'm thinking That's deaf punk

[00:39:58] So that the end of the movie I'm going okay who did the music? Deaf punk they did the music over that now so I remember they're going okay. They got a little cameo of themselves

[00:40:08] That's in the film. What I thought there is a there was I had totally forgotten about that. It's kind of cool They I remember in the original film watching it and there was one point in the movie One thing I always look for in scores for films

[00:40:24] Mm-hmm is that one moment where everything rises above and it's it's sometimes a heroic moment Sometimes it's just a dramatic moment. It's a breakthrough Thing where oftentimes composers will shift gears just a little bit to make it stand out even more

[00:40:42] There was that point I can't remember the exact scene And maybe it was when they broke free on the solar sail ship and he made the other Track appear, you know with his right power But where the music shifted a little bit from obvious digital

[00:41:02] And synthesized music to a little more like it sounded more true orchestra Just it had this kind of sailing, you know Victorious kind of thing and that was really nice I remember going oh that's so well done because it's a distinct moment in the film in the story

[00:41:22] And the composer just did a great job of pulling that out So I appreciated that in this and I looked up the composer for Tron and the name was not familiar in any way shape or form so yeah, I didn't recognize an yeah, it may have been a

[00:41:36] Just someone who was into electronic music at that time Well, you know now I'm gonna look that up while we're talking Okay, if there's other films this composer did that we might recognize. Okay, please do so while you're doing that

[00:41:49] I'm just gonna say so it was Michael Sheen's character Zeus thank you Michael Sheen. Yes, that was it and I'll be honest I didn't really I didn't like so I liked the music in general in both films. Mm-hmm

[00:42:01] I like that kind of to me it all had a 70s I Don't know art film. Well, I don't know They had some kind of quality that I just associate with the 70s in it

[00:42:13] Which I in a sci-fi way which I like right but I did not like that scene with Zeus at all and Zeus that's his name. Thank you. Yeah. Well, and that part of the the part of the thing was

[00:42:28] And this is where the world building is falling off for me. Mm-hmm Why is there a bar like why are these? entities and Like there's a bar and there you got entities attending the bar and entities serving and working them

[00:42:43] I like why are like again and I am all for anthropomorphizing stuff But it's gotta you gotta explain a little bit of why are they doing completely and utterly human?

[00:42:57] Stuff in this not a digital world. Are they supposed to be like how are they? How did that happen? How did that develop where that come from again? They're all programs They're all programs and why programs want to go to a bar and have people serve them drinks

[00:43:14] Yeah, you're right it is and then you have an MC that's right. I mean he was a great he was a funny character He was probably the lightest moment in the entire film with his his lucite cane and at you know, and and Doing more Broadway than

[00:43:31] science fiction But yeah, what was the point? And so last last night, but you know the night before recording this I also watched the first episode of the animated series Tron uprising. Mm-hmm, which is supposed to take place between the two it came out after

[00:43:50] legacy, but it was to take place in between the two films and It starts out I guess you know the the hero character that the main character he is Well, and this is where it gets me too. He's like a mechanic

[00:44:07] He's like, you know, he starts like that's his like job or something. He's fixing the bikes These digital bikes like I don't understand. Why is he doing this? Every it it's that's where this is all falling apart for me

[00:44:19] It all looks great and actually the animation in this in that series. I love the look of the animation It's got a very to me. There's a certain comic book feel style Like I really liked it. Although my older son, you know, Frank he was watching with me

[00:44:31] He was not a fan of that particular style of animation, but you know, whatever but again, it was still I Kind of if if I try to imagine and say like this is not in a computer or whatever

[00:44:46] And I just say this is like an alien world or something like that I'm good. Well, and I think there's actually in in in the uprising series I think it actually could be very good if I

[00:44:57] Take away the this is supposed to be a digital world inside a computer You know And this is a good point Adina because you work in a digital world You work in a world of ones and zeros where things happen where there's there switches doors

[00:45:15] It switches open switches closed data sent from here to there and so on to achieve at a final Conclusion of doing something you want something to happen. You go through the process something does happen but in this movie as a computer programmer

[00:45:32] To me I can understand why you're going Well, this is a load of what? Well because it just doesn't fit how you understand computers do work. Well, yes and no I mean, I think it's it's not that it's the fact that I don't think they

[00:45:48] Did anything to explain how this world came about? like I feel like they could they could and You know I know a lot of times when in any kind of media when questions aren't answered

[00:46:02] That's where headcanon comes in and we figure out but this is just too like they didn't give us really much of anything to build that off of and so then the space is too wide open and then that's when you're like

[00:46:14] Well, you want me to make it all up myself. Like it's right too open. Okay. Well, here's the thing I just didn't I have watched the entire fallout series

[00:46:28] Crime mm-hmm. This is based on a video game and a video game has if you do this that happens if that happens This happens whatever and they've taken a digit a video game and made it a linear story From a beginning to a middle to an end

[00:46:45] It was excellent graphic graphic can do that so if they had made this more of a linear story as to This leads to that to that as opposed, you know I supposed to a computer program where if you do this that happens and if this happens that happens

[00:47:03] It is nothing to do with it being a computer for it. It's like there's there's really zero explanation Yeah for how or why any of this exists? There is a little bit at least in Tron in the first movie

[00:47:18] You understand there is this computer system of N con and there's a stuff in and you know that you're going in There and it's simple enough that it kind of hangs together when you get strong legacy

[00:47:30] We don't know where they are. We don't have no idea how this came about we have no idea of the evolution like just the the only bits that you know, just saying that okay well it started out because

[00:47:38] You know you had clue in Tron and you know clue went and you know took took the programming instructions to the extreme But then then all sudden you have these different species and again you have a bar

[00:47:51] Like and you have McCann like where what so no they could they could have done it the fact that it's a you know Like other things that you know, we have video games and we make stories out of video games

[00:48:02] That's that happens. There's been several of those and that is not not analogous to me to the problems or something Okay. Yeah, okay So let's hit rewind for just a second because I found some interesting stuff on our composer Wendy Carlos, oh that's it That's really okay

[00:48:20] Thank you fantastic Add it in that was Steve everybody. Yes Unbelievable. I'm in ah, I'm in awe of your rewind sound effect Read this off of the Always right never wrong always reliable Wikipedia. Okay, absolutely Carlos came to prominence with switched on Bach in 1968 in Alba's

[00:48:47] 1968 an album of music by Yohan Sebastian Bach performed on a moog synthesizer Which helped popularize its use in the 70s and won her three Grammy Awards Its commercial success led to several more albums including further synthesized classical music adaptations and

[00:49:07] Experimental and ambient music so that's incredibly interesting to me She composed the score for two Stanley Kubrick films a little film you might know called a clockwork orange Oh, wow another little film called The Shining that's that

[00:49:22] That the clockwork orange that to me is this that what I was saying about this like kind of 70s sound ish to me Yes, that makes that It's it's also interesting like you think of kind of almost like music being this kind of

[00:49:40] Eternal thing but her music is out of print totally now Really? Wow So that's into even being a three-time Grammy Award winner And then having worked on such iconic three iconic films really in different ways Because when people think about

[00:50:00] Synthesized music to my bite my brain always goes back to Blade Runner and what Vangelis was doing and he worked on that So that's to me. That's like he's the you know, I don't know if he's the king of digital music

[00:50:13] But he sure was there at the forefront even My most beloved composer for film Jerry Goldsmith was well known for how he and we're gonna talk about a little film He composed music for the Planet of the Apes in our next episode right and so I

[00:50:32] Can't wait to talk about the music for that film. Oh that was groundbreaking stuff. He was doing using different types of instruments and synthesizers Make make us feel what we need to feel so yeah, yeah that'll stay tuned folks

[00:50:48] We're gonna talk about that in another episode of the big sci-fi Podcast and of course that film has one of the greatest One-liners of all time in a film and we won't say it here. We'll wait for the next

[00:51:02] Yeah, well cuz right because we're still talking about Tron, but I think we're getting We were talking about Tron and I think we are getting close to you know, we're at the time where we want to do our How many thumbs? Yeah, okay Okay, yeah

[00:51:21] The stars one the five stars Right, this is true. This is true I think I mix myself up between stars and a thumbs up thumbs down. That's okay got you well, that makes it a long day

[00:51:42] Five digits you got five digits on your hand. Okay, how many is this a pinky or a thumb? I don't know Who wants to go first I'll go first. Okay. Go ahead. Oh, you said Steve and I said, okay, I'll go I'll go first. Go ahead. Okay because

[00:52:02] The met the movies hold a really strong feeling about especially in the nostalgia of Tron I actually gave it a four and a half because it has such great nostalgia for what it was being groundbreaking digitally beautiful a

[00:52:19] linear story where you went from us beginning a middle and an end and a conclusion at the end Legacy I give a three. Oh Really and I give it a three even because it's not Tron but digitally and From the look of it. It's a beautiful movie

[00:52:39] And if you can get past what we've already discussed and just look at it for the quality of the film It was I think it was pretty good. So I'm being very generous with a three on it Okay, thanks Brian. I

[00:52:53] Am gonna give the original Tron a four star Okay, and For many of the same reasons I was really impressed with how this film looked and how it sounded and the general vibe they were going for all of the

[00:53:10] Big gaping holes in the story and character development set aside This had to have been quite the experience originally in the theater And so for those reasons and because I like Jeff Bridges I like Bruce Fox lightning or two. Oh

[00:53:30] Someday we'll talk about Babylon five somehow and we'll think how to do that but You know, I I give that a four for all the reasons Steve so I won't go over that Okay, as far as legacy goes I'm not afraid. I think three is a really good

[00:53:50] Fair rating for the film. Okay because of the visuals because of the music because of the acting in it It's a stunningly It's just visually stunning and I think that deserves kudos M is it a film? I'm gonna go back to and watch over and over

[00:54:10] No, but neither is Tron but every few years. Yeah, I'll go back and watch these two films And So I think that you know if I give a film a one or two I'm probably never watching them again, but a three I might go back and watch them

[00:54:25] So okay, I think I think that's a fair. I think Steve we are in total unison on this Yeah And I give it I give it that extra point five just because of nostalgia Because it takes me back to 1982 going to the theater. Yeah Okay, and now I

[00:54:42] Feel like I've been having been struggling with this Been shocked by some of my reviews on very famous sci-fi film So and I've been four out of five doctors do not recommend this film, you know, so go ahead if you're gonna be

[00:55:01] Brutally honest, please Adina be brutally honest It's not maybe it's not it's not that bad. It's not That But it's not that good either I think I'm in free territory or a little under three or both films, okay or yeah, and I and I think the

[00:55:25] only reason I'm Being that generous is because of the appreciation of the special effects because that for both films. It was amazing. I Think the music was amazing for both films but and and there's something about the original Tron that it definitely got into

[00:55:46] Pop culture and pop culture sci-fi and I think there has got to be some appreciation for that as well for the original Tron so I feel like the first original Tron is maybe like a three and Legacy is two and a half Yes, okay. Maybe maybe

[00:56:05] I'm but Jerry's out on the The Animated series the uprising and then I might might watch it I am curious about the upcoming movie Aries and I would definitely give it a try and

[00:56:18] I always like to put this in terms of you know, should other people who might have missed this film You know should they go back and watch this and I think the original Tron. Yeah This is kind of again one of those

[00:56:30] To round out the sci-fi education history education. It's worth Watching it's a legacy. It's a legacy as opposed to the other film called Think you could probably It might depending on what they're doing with the the forthcoming film

[00:56:50] It might be one of those you kind of if you want to see Aries, you might need to see this, you know, yeah Yeah, that's where I'm at. I wonder if Aries will flesh out more and give us more of what we're

[00:57:03] Talking about in between the lines a little bit. I don't know. I look up the the Wikipedia on it So, you know, it's always right kids. It's right up there with Funkin Waggonil's dictionary It says they're all new characters oh

[00:57:19] Interesting all new characters. So this may be just a whole different idea of what computers are and bring it up to 2024 standards of what we understand computers to be what they can do and all that

[00:57:36] But a kids if you really want to see a great movie that explains the world of computer games May I recommend Wreck-It Ralph? Oh Amazing see it's amazing and it's the same concept if you're in the machine you're seeing how the machines work

[00:57:53] You're in the video game. You're seeing how the characters interact with each other and they're likeable characters They really are so yeah Exactly, and this is where I say is like that whole concept of being inside the machine and the personification and anthropomorphization

[00:58:08] Yeah, I can understand because they they world-built it they kind of they show took you these characters and they showed you what their day-to-day life was and and they They did that, you know, like yeah Wreck-It Ralph is was great. We could we could talk about that one

[00:58:23] That's a sign absolutely There's there's Yeah Wonderful films. I mean really plan for another day. Yeah, John C. Reilly as Ralph is just beloved Okay. Well, all right. Thank you guys so much This is this has been awesome

[00:58:43] And I guess that's a wrap on our electrifying journey through these digital landscapes of Tron and trod tron legacy Now we hope everyone who's listening We hope you enjoy delving into these iconic films or at least iconic film plus a sequel as much as we did there go

[00:59:01] If you have something to say about this film The first and best way to do that is to come find our Facebook group or the big sci-fi podcast Another great way to interact is to drop us a note at the big sci-fi podcast at gmail.com

[00:59:15] Or you can find us on Instagram or Twitter So now until next time keep your circuit safe and your identity identity discs ready This is the Dina and the big sci-fi podcast signing off from the grid Stay connected while spreading goodwill and kindness throughout the universe

[00:59:32] And may you live long and prosper with limitless adventures until the next episode of the big sci-fi podcast