The Black Hole

[00:00:00] Welcome to season 5 of the Big Sci-Fi Podcast with Adina Brian, Chris and Steve, the biggest

[00:00:14] sci-fi podcast in the galaxy. The adventure is just beginning here at the Big Sci-Fi

[00:00:20] Podcast, and we invite you to come aboard the Starship tangent. We know you'll enjoy

[00:00:24] the conversation, the laughter, the banner back and forth, and most of all friends who love

[00:00:29] hanging out to talk about all things science fiction. Set your phasers to fun, here we go.

[00:00:35] Black holes have been the subject of great study and conjecture in the real world of scientific

[00:00:40] discovery and theory as well as in the imaginations of science fiction writers for years. Nothing

[00:00:46] holds a greater mystery or holds a tighter grip upon our imaginations like black holes

[00:00:52] do. They have been part of countless sci-fi stories, books, television shows and films. It's

[00:00:58] interesting to point out that a country preacher was the first to theorize about the existence

[00:01:03] of black holes. His name was John Michelle. This first mention was in, are you sitting

[00:01:10] down? 1783. Michelle was one of the most brilliant and original scientists of his time. He studied

[00:01:19] at Cambridge University where he later taught Hebrew, Greek, mathematics and geology. He

[00:01:24] made groundbreaking achievements in measuring the force of magnets as well as writing a book

[00:01:29] that helped establish the science of seismology. But we are not here to talk about John. The

[00:01:36] crew of the Big Sci-Fi Podcast has gathered together this day to talk about the film produced

[00:01:41] by the Walt Disney company way back in 1979, the year of my birth by the way called

[00:01:48] Mickey Me Feel Old. You're welcome. Called The Black Hole. This film has all the makings

[00:01:56] of a grade in classic sci-fi film. Kind of. It had the potential to stand out and alone

[00:02:03] in the genre, but it falls short and more way than one folks. In this week's episode

[00:02:07] we'll unpack this grand old flop of a movie and discuss what we love about it because

[00:02:12] there are some cool things in it. And while we don't love about it, plenty of those two

[00:02:17] end why. Before we get into our banter full discussion, see what I did there instead of

[00:02:22] wonderful banter full, we'd like to take a minute to recognize and thank our family over

[00:02:27] at Trek Geeks Podcast Network of which we're a proud part of. Make sure to check out all

[00:02:32] the amazing podcasts at trekgeeks.com. And while you're at it, make sure to head over

[00:02:37] to Trek Long Island's website to register for the second annual Trek Long Island Convention.

[00:02:43] We're going to be there. The sci-fi sisters will be there as well. Dan and Bill from Trek Geeks.

[00:02:50] Join us along with an amazing lineup of actors, podcasters, authors, artists and more from

[00:02:56] our beloved Star Trek. Now on with the show and by on with the show, I mean say hello

[00:03:02] to our own real life engineer, the author of the Robot Galaxy series and newly released

[00:03:06] book Lunar Logic Adina Minyona. Hello everybody.

[00:03:10] You guys can say hey to her too if you want to. Alright now okay and world famous YouTuber

[00:03:20] at least in our eyes who has a wonderful YouTube channel, you should subscribe to called

[00:03:24] yelling about Star Trek. He doesn't really yell all that often though. Got a bone to

[00:03:29] pick with you. It's Christian Fox. How are you doing? Hey everybody yeah I get that a lot

[00:03:35] that I don't actually yell that much in the in the website. YouTube channel maybe maybe

[00:03:42] maybe mean the color yelling I'm sorry. Oh what okay. He lives in Canada by the way and

[00:03:50] a gentleman whose personal favorite Trek is Enterprise, our resident retired and all

[00:03:56] around nice guy Mr. Stephen Merck and how you doing sir? It's been a long time getting

[00:04:02] okay no stop. Yes, good afternoon everybody. Good afternoon. Yeah. And I'm you just can't

[00:04:09] help it Kenny. You hear the first part of that song in a matter what room you're in if

[00:04:13] there's a trekky it gets finished. It's like the OH and if there's an Ohio State person

[00:04:19] they say IO and it just can't help it. And I'm pastor Brian Donney here and I'm just happy

[00:04:25] to be a part of this swashbuckling crew today. No idea why use the word swashbuckling in

[00:04:30] there. We're not talking about pirates. You guys aren't pirates. I must be all the

[00:04:35] dodger I'm singing in the morning with my son Brody Tiberius anyways. Let's go where this

[00:04:41] movie didn't shall we and by that I mean let's be entertaining and let's make sure our

[00:04:47] ending is better than this films ending okay everybody. That's for sure.

[00:04:52] So I question I don't I don't think I put this in the podcast notes but is this

[00:05:04] the first time you guys have seen this film preparing for this episode or had you seen it

[00:05:09] before? Yes. First time for question. Okay. I've seen it before as a kid but it was not

[00:05:17] super memorable. Like I could you know the look of it I could remember kind of what the

[00:05:25] I don't know something about the look but nothing about it was truly memorable so it was

[00:05:31] almost like I was watching it for the first time. Okay that's kind of me I had never seen it so

[00:05:37] I'd heard of it and I've seen it on Disney Plus for a long time since that app came around and

[00:05:43] so this is my first time how about you Steve? It was a busy December in 1979 because I went to

[00:05:50] go see Star Trek the motion picture and then afterwards when this came out I went to go see

[00:05:57] the black hole. And the funny weird and the funny weird thing was I have this very strong

[00:06:03] recollection that I like the black hole better than I did Star Trek the motion picture and I guess

[00:06:11] maybe yeah I guess well again this is I'm gonna get about later about Rose colored glasses

[00:06:17] a garter of course but I have this I remember it's like I like the action it was more exciting you know

[00:06:25] Star Trek the next the movie was rather ponderous so this had a lot more action and stuff

[00:06:31] and maybe I was just a younger version of me could enjoy such

[00:06:37] provolody is this film hasn't it? Did you just use the word bravality?

[00:06:42] Bravality. Bravality. I don't even know what that means.

[00:06:47] Vagolas. Like frivolous. Oh frivolous. Okay, I know frivolous. Forget about it okay.

[00:06:53] So so we kind of got a little bit of Steve's initial feeling and we'll let you

[00:07:00] go deeper on that if you'd like to Steve's course but let's just go around the zoom room here

[00:07:05] what was your initial feeling as you watched this film?

[00:07:10] Oh my god. Let's do this in two parts here because this is really for the sake because we've

[00:07:16] kind of gone here a little bit what do you feel about it originally and as far as the rewatched

[00:07:21] did anything change for you all that stuff? Well the only two people that this would apply could

[00:07:27] be would be a dina into myself because you seem to remember having watched it once I do remember

[00:07:35] having watched it once but okay I'll go open by saying like I said before much like some of

[00:07:42] these films that we see like explorers and others where you know I was wearing rose colored

[00:07:48] rose colored glasses for way too long think about how wonderful the movie was now great it was

[00:07:55] and then you're watching you're going wait what? Yeah I don't quite remember the ending and

[00:08:04] a holy moly you know so that's that is the problem is that if you if it's been so many decades since

[00:08:12] he's seen something yeah you might always remember the good times and not the bad and in this case

[00:08:20] even though Trek is a much slower film again and we just recently we did the same thing where we had

[00:08:26] watched the motion picture now watching going what was I thinking the motion picture is so much

[00:08:33] better film than this was all the way around much better from a dina what about you? Well so like

[00:08:43] I said I'm I am certain I saw this but I have no memory of what I felt about it then which mean

[00:08:51] you know given that I do remember a lot of films from my childhood and this doesn't stick out

[00:08:57] means obviously it did not have any any there was nothing lasting but now and watching it now I

[00:09:06] couldn't wait for it to be over it I was not the one right spot in it for me was the cute robot of

[00:09:15] course the cute snarky robot Vincent was that was a highlight for me and again the funny thing is

[00:09:22] the dialogue that Vincent had would have gone over my head as a kid I would not have you know

[00:09:28] gotten any of it and now like hey he's got the best line in the whole film I loved it I loved it

[00:09:34] yeah played voiced by Rowdy McDow who is also was in the Planet of the Apes all sorts he was in all

[00:09:42] sorts of stuff and let alone Disney films he was all over Disney films in that era but Chris how

[00:09:48] about you this is the first time seeing it like myself what did what do you think about it just

[00:09:54] general speaking so I have to say this upfront it's not a good movie I would not claim into good

[00:10:01] movie but I had a lot of fun with it I love good terrible dialogue for one thing I love because we

[00:10:07] were talking last week about this simple dialogue of silent running and they just took that to

[00:10:15] the max it was a lot of hey Charlie what do you think of that thing over there oh that's a little

[00:10:19] weird we better investigate it and I loved it I like the dialogue was great um I like the captain

[00:10:27] Nemo S. Dr. Ryan Hart was interesting the mystery was compelling and I liked how

[00:10:37] just cheesy it was like it was just it's one of those movies where I feel like I had heard this

[00:10:42] was a bad movie so going into it I was not expecting something amazing so I feel like having that

[00:10:47] mindset and just like okay let me watch a cheesy sci-fi movie from the 70s and I had fun the ending

[00:10:54] was weird um we already mentioned the motion picture and I really just wanted to open up by saying

[00:11:00] time to impact 20 seconds and in real time 20 seconds yeah no let's take two weeks traveling

[00:11:16] through Vager to see where we're gonna get in this film yes you know what listen and let's just

[00:11:21] switch gears all together let's just talk about the motion picture instead of the black

[00:11:26] so what are my problems with the motion picture is you have captain Kirk right I'm just kidding

[00:11:31] everybody right right right right good so I watched this film in two parts but I started it

[00:11:39] originally months ago with my family my son and I were the only two intrigued by it and so we

[00:11:47] always do pizza at night and movie night on Fridays almost religiously it's just like our thing

[00:11:52] as a family even if we do something really awesome our kids get a little upset with us because it's

[00:11:57] pizza and movie night you know they love that time we love that time I got to choose the movie I

[00:12:03] chose the black hole halfway through my wife and daughter said we're rebelling against your choice

[00:12:10] we're watching something else so I actually started all over again and watched it from start to

[00:12:18] finish the other day and I'll just I'll never get those hour and 48 minutes or whatever back now it's

[00:12:28] interesting I was gonna say I'm sorry I didn't interrupt you Brian yeah but your your daughter and

[00:12:33] your wife survived the first half of it which as Adina says this is the movie where the first part

[00:12:40] was rather intriguing but the second half right so it was very disappointing that second half of

[00:12:49] the film the first half I will say did enough for me to intrigue me it was slow moving but it did

[00:12:57] enough to intrigue me the problem with this film the major problem with it for me besides some of

[00:13:03] the special effects that just don't hold up the matte paintings stuff like that they're just

[00:13:09] clearly obvious in this film especially interior shots of the ship the outer space stuff was okay

[00:13:18] I don't really have any problems with that it was the interior of the ship where they clearly had

[00:13:23] matte paintings and stuff like that but the second half of the film just the payoff did not

[00:13:30] it just there was no payoff yeah it was just not existent the weirdest thing about the interior

[00:13:36] of the ship forget the quality of the you know the sets or anything like that but just the fact that

[00:13:41] they have like this kind of like 19th century early 19th century like dining room thing

[00:13:50] in on a spaceship which is which is a very odd choice because like did they launch with that where

[00:13:59] did that like I feel like that that's a weird thing that they would launch like way up high too

[00:14:04] on top of the well okay so assuming that ship was that form factor of the ship

[00:14:11] was that room converted later into that or I don't know just that was just such a weird

[00:14:18] weird choice they needed in dining yeah and why didn't it look future why didn't it look

[00:14:26] more futuristic it was very right why did it look like it was from 100 years in the past

[00:14:31] yeah it was a very weird choice maybe what you said early about doc captain Nemo and 20,000

[00:14:38] leagues under the sea and they were looking going for that look yeah I think so I mean in a

[00:14:46] my own encounter to not counter but like even Trek does that sometimes like the president's office

[00:14:55] in Star Trek 6 it is all full of 19th century furniture no no again that's not it's on earth yeah

[00:15:02] right you know I so I could yeah I can completely accept keeping something on earth in the future

[00:15:09] kind of you know historical because we do that we do but in a spaceship away from earth

[00:15:16] that's that's what's weird yeah that's a little yeah yeah I don't know that's pretty nip nicky when

[00:15:22] there's so many other worse things to talk about the characters yes if you want to get into the

[00:15:36] characters yes yes if you want to get you want to continue talking about cinematography and all

[00:15:40] the stuff that's fine you want to talk about let's do let's talk about the kids just looking at

[00:15:44] that Steve because there's a couple interesting things to note here at least for me okay that's

[00:15:50] that it was one reason I was intrigued by this film originally Maximilian Schell who played Dr.

[00:15:56] Hans Reinhart Academy Award winner for Judgment at Nuremberg he played the was he the defending

[00:16:04] lawyer I think he was the defending defense lawyer for all of the Nazis which was a heck of a job

[00:16:11] to have to have back then but so Academy Award winning actor Robert Forster has been in all kinds of

[00:16:20] stuff he was kind of the captain the ship he played Tim Allen's dad in last man standing too on

[00:16:27] that sitcom most recently that's cool and then of course you have Anthony Perkins who's famous for

[00:16:33] what role Steve all right Cole mommy are you in the basement oh you need a little more you need

[00:16:43] a little more suntan you've struggled up mom what's going on here right and then my favorite

[00:16:49] character of this film is not the robot although Vincent is a close second I loved Harry

[00:16:57] Berth Ernest Borgnein's character now here's why I like they didn't give him a bunch you know it was

[00:17:03] the dialogue like we discussed is all pretty simple but Ernest Borgnein is a master of reaction

[00:17:12] if you watch just him on this film he is acting 100% of the time the door comes down as he's exploring

[00:17:21] this ship and snooping around and he the way he responds to it is it's just brilliant like

[00:17:29] to me Ernest Borgnein was the closest to interesting of all the characters I wanted more I wish

[00:17:37] we could have learned we get like zero backstory about these guys don't we yeah it started out okay

[00:17:43] story no back story yeah it started out okay when the movie started and you've got the guys who

[00:17:48] were like in charge of the ship kind of more the the middle you know you've got the captain lieutenant

[00:17:52] of the ship and then you got the people who are clearly scientists and how they were responding

[00:17:56] to something external it started out like this is going to be okay it was fine yeah yeah and then

[00:18:04] I you know I don't know when it turned but yes and I you know as soon as they stepped on the ship

[00:18:11] yeah I did not like Dr. Reinhardt's character at all and there were plenty of times where like

[00:18:18] his emotional reaction or non-reaction was was wrong it was just completely like when Durant is killed

[00:18:26] like so right leading up to that he says Maximilian and then that's when Maximilian goes to kill

[00:18:32] like and you don't actually know that that's coming because it's like a slow approach it's weird

[00:18:35] and then they just stand there and everyone lets it happen and then afterwards you know he's like oh

[00:18:40] well he was a good guy like Maximilian why did you do that but he's like flat it's well even

[00:18:44] that it was very contrived because that robot was not a fast moving robot Durant had every

[00:18:52] obviously the actor had not he had to stand there and take it as an actor in portray being killed

[00:18:58] but that thing was so slow moving it was just like it was like come on now the actor did a fine job

[00:19:05] Perkins did a fine job pretending like his little blades were cutting into his chest or stomach

[00:19:11] or whatever but it just I don't have a complaint about that part but yeah I don't think I liked

[00:19:16] a thing a single thing about Reinhardt's character because it was like up and down and not in the right

[00:19:21] like it was like he was missing beats all over the place let me let me reach you what I wrote down

[00:19:28] yes and I kind of disagree with you Adina because I said my two favorite characters are

[00:19:34] Dr. Reinhardt and Vincent as you mentioned earlier when I wrote his

[00:19:39] shell is the only character has the fun of portraying two distinctly different characters

[00:19:45] the mad scientist and the scientist interested in discovering the mystery of black holes

[00:19:51] and who cannot love Rodney McDowell as the voice of Vincent he had the best lines in the film

[00:19:57] always saying quotes that were that best fit the situation like you had mentioned Adina

[00:20:02] as for the true Disney characters that has to be Bob the old robot boy spiced slim pickens

[00:20:10] that corneal prospector like robot that gives his life for the others all the other characters

[00:20:16] to me were extremely wooden I mean really you know just yeah but Ernest Borgnein as the coward

[00:20:25] he he you know his he was there to be in total contrast to the two hero characters played by

[00:20:33] Forrester and I forget the other actors name um and and then as far as Max and he the robot

[00:20:42] yes thank you Timothy bonds and as far as Max and million the robot he to me ends up as

[00:20:50] Emperor Zorg in this toy story movies yes so I mean yeah there wasn't that many actors and all

[00:21:02] the zombies the zombie crew I mean really how stupid and all the robots that they had

[00:21:10] that were bronze I mean they moved like wooden soldiers from a bad parade it's yeah there's

[00:21:17] just a lot of wrong it was Terrick Chris how do you think of the zombie robots whatever

[00:21:27] so I thought the concept of the humans being turned I don't know what like what he specifically did

[00:21:33] like they lobotomize them I think yes the only reason I know that part is because it says on the

[00:21:38] Wikipedia page of the web app yeah that's what I'm on right now and I it's interesting concept I'm

[00:21:45] like if you have a cool concept one of the great things to do in any story is to build on that

[00:21:50] concept let's have a payoff let's explore it but they didn't they just kind of said oh yeah this

[00:21:56] is a little weird and then they moved on we just got to get out of here which I get but it's just

[00:22:01] like they could have either find a way from incorporating that more into the story or just don't

[00:22:05] have that concept well we had enough issues with them having 18th century furniture in the dining room

[00:22:12] how many people decide to put a zombie on batten on their spaceship you know you might not

[00:22:17] hey you know something Christ we might need to turn all the crew into zombies let's put a zombie

[00:22:21] on meter in there or something like whatever you call it the zombie 2000 whatever that lobotomize

[00:22:29] that would you normally carry around is something to lobotomize your crew with but that's the thing

[00:22:34] is I want to know was that technology launched with them or created in the couple decades

[00:22:42] that they were out there and without a doubt but we but we don't have an effect that they leave all

[00:22:48] these kinds of holes they don't really answer their even their own questions also also is this not

[00:22:56] in science fiction history I'm gonna go out on a big limb here wow is this not the worst use of

[00:23:03] massive amounts of space aboard these space stations oh yeah I mean huge open I mean they're

[00:23:13] driving along in that car that kind of you know elevator car thing is massive amounts of unused

[00:23:21] we got busted oh yeah season two for their for their turbo and all the space in between but

[00:23:31] and I think that's just like a science fiction anything yeah as gorgeous

[00:23:35] always enterprise gets dinged quite a bit right in strange award worlds the enterprise is gorgeous

[00:23:42] but it's just unreal is what a kitchen but it's unrealistically big yeah you know so you know

[00:23:49] I feel like the TOS era enterprise even though it had that 60s look in whatever in terms of space

[00:23:56] how much space they all that well that's a much more realistic evolution from current projections

[00:24:02] but again like so no I don't think it's the first like egregious use of space and assuming you've got

[00:24:10] the material out there or whatever that's in everything but there was some excuses for it

[00:24:18] like and I can't believe I'm just trying to justify anything in this film but the fact that they had

[00:24:23] that farm system you know to write a lot of food so you do you know in that version of it

[00:24:30] you need a lot of space so in reality we're trying to what yield can you get in the smallest space

[00:24:36] possible but you know I think that kind of in some ways justify some of the space that they had

[00:24:41] well I don't know okay no no no you've got a point but even think and I hate to say it by

[00:24:46] a film like the Martian the spacecraft that they travel to the earth to Mars and back again

[00:24:53] is a massive spaceship with tremendous amount of room for only six people so it also remember

[00:25:02] oh yeah no they had all like a whole new museum they had a large meeting area their kitchen area

[00:25:07] was very large it was very spacious and of course again to pay on the site you're going to build this

[00:25:15] I mean Adina you would realize you would build the spaceship to fit the amount of people on board right

[00:25:20] well right but it's people on board it's space for growing stuff it's space for storage stuff it's

[00:25:26] space for trash you know there's a there's a lot of things you know and how much space do you

[00:25:32] do will use like what we're doing these days for habitats that we might be designing in real life

[00:25:37] right now we have full the ideas to have full-of-way exercise equipment then then pops out

[00:25:42] but then folds away but I mean if you look at the International Space Station which nominally only

[00:25:46] houses three to six people at a time it's also technically there's a lot of space there

[00:25:52] now it's cluttered with all everything but there there is actually quite a different yeah I'm looking

[00:25:57] back at the Martian spacecraft right now and given the kind of movie it is and the things it doesn't

[00:26:04] seem to be ridiculous to me well compared to this film yes oh yeah no but I'm saying even just

[00:26:11] even just as a natural evolution of what I know in real life and the reason why is because

[00:26:17] in in real life if we send a few astronauts out to Mars where they're alone for six months

[00:26:24] you know they can't get other supplies from Earth they have to have everything they need

[00:26:30] they have to have spare parts they have to have everything this doesn't look really as enemy

[00:26:34] okay because it would be you would think that the largest amount of space would be devoted to as you

[00:26:39] say storage fuel food water oxygen replacement equipment all those things like that that you would

[00:26:48] need because I mean to this day looking at the Apollo 11 or the Apollo capsules and for three

[00:26:56] people to live in there as long as they did in the space that they were allotted that's truly

[00:27:01] amazing and have a bathroom in there as well yeah think of you know what we refer to with that

[00:27:07] is like it's like a camping trip you know it's like a camping trip and we this is the terminology

[00:27:12] we use more thinking about designing stuff habitation spaces for space you know are we camping or we

[00:27:17] trying to provide more of like a hotel like experience or even more something more permanent than that

[00:27:21] so what's the whole guys were doing they were camping yeah okay what we're trying to do now in

[00:27:27] real life is kind of evolve a little bit from the camping mentality to more of a hotel kind of

[00:27:32] mentality but then even there it takes the kind of resources that we have and one of the reasons

[00:27:37] you know that you have a modular space station looks like it does is limitations on the size

[00:27:43] that we can launch you know because we're still developing expandables and inflatables and all

[00:27:49] these different things so my point is is yes it's amazing what they were able to do but you know

[00:27:56] they're only in those you know those those those Apollo capsules for like you know all told like

[00:28:01] a week just over a week and the space shuttle two was really amazingly little space for seven people

[00:28:06] you know six or seven people but also for up to two weeks they're camping I mean and you talk

[00:28:11] about campers yeah yeah sending folks to Mars that is like again six weeks without any way to

[00:28:20] get back to earth get resupplied from earth do anything so you really have to have a lot more

[00:28:26] available to you and considering when you talk about camping you look at the uh

[00:28:32] the Gemini spacecraft with the two in there I mean literally the only the only time they could

[00:28:39] stand up was when they opened up the hatch so I mean that's you talk about cramp that's grand

[00:28:45] that's again it's a it was a sign of what they were doing the technology at the time and the

[00:28:50] needs the time which again they're going around earth a handful of times a day or so you know people

[00:28:55] can deal with that when they're studying when this is a new this is a test all that stuff

[00:29:00] very big difference between when we start thinking about going to Mars so when I'm looking at this

[00:29:04] spacecraft that you know as a you know again fictional spacecraft but for the realistic you know

[00:29:12] scenario of the Martian this seems of this definitely seems an evolution of what we know our current

[00:29:18] technology and what are thinking could possibly be okay all right so shall we move on to the next

[00:29:24] where I think we're talking about the black hole if you do I know we've been sorry about that

[00:29:29] here I want to learn tangular we uh Kristen I should have our own separate conversation while

[00:29:36] you guys are will muting call each other and say we don't know what they're talking about but uh

[00:29:41] how about start the weekend can I say you also remember this past weekend I just came off of doing

[00:29:47] a presentation at a convention on space habitats so I'm currently it's all currently right in my brain

[00:29:54] this is like the big conversation this weekend so go ahead Chris uh guy with the mustache what's

[00:30:00] his name again because he had one he has he had a great line where he's like us the taxpayers

[00:30:03] dollars or something Ernest Borgnein that's yeah yes I'm like okay that kind of is at least there

[00:30:08] is sort of addressing but it's so large but you're right it but I feel like most sci-fi is guilty

[00:30:15] of that mm-hmm yeah I kind of felt like this ship was over the top extra space though yeah it was

[00:30:22] just a top and and I will say this though the bright shining part of this film at least the first

[00:30:28] half of the film is the music score I was gonna say really intriguing opening oh the love it

[00:30:35] yeah I mean really intriguing and different sounding uh but once all the action started it just

[00:30:44] got cheesy and it was like what are you guys doing so we talked about a couple things what what

[00:30:50] do you guys think of are there any good things about the cinematography special effects costume

[00:30:56] sets all this we've kind of talked about sets all right can I talk about the the score yeah

[00:31:01] I'm gonna do we're gonna take over this portion of the book yes right this is John

[00:31:07] I'm gonna twiddle our thumbs okay let's twiddle how is so excited I thought this is John Brown

[00:31:12] like James Bond and then you hear it I'm like oh this sounds like James Bond yeah

[00:31:17] like it's it's funny because if we're talking about the large the size of the ship I'm like

[00:31:23] this does when you have a jay oh John Berry score it feels more like you're almost dealing with a

[00:31:28] bond villain then like in a sci-fi movie so I like to score a lot that was definitely the standout

[00:31:37] I like the first half of the uh what do you what do you call it not the intermission the

[00:31:43] interlude interlude the over yeah over Sure yes which is when the original theater release had

[00:31:50] the overture we'd sit in the theater for quite about halfway through I'm like okay let me just

[00:31:53] skip I need to get to the get to the start of this film yeah yeah for me was definitely probably

[00:32:00] the strongest aspect of the movie I agree a hundred percent my friend the only portion of the

[00:32:06] score that just bothers me is when they're having the shootout yes and it just they recycled the same

[00:32:12] piece of music two or three times in a row yeah yeah and it was just yes and it was just too much

[00:32:20] that was but but you're right the opening sequence when they open up and you hear that music melodic

[00:32:27] pulse yeah it's good it draws you right into the movie yeah and I really I really feel like

[00:32:33] we're answering all of these questions kind of all at once tonight as we record this so

[00:32:39] you're right I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead on to number five here anyone keeping score but

[00:32:45] and I think I know the answer does this film hold up or does it look like it was made in 79 or

[00:32:53] earlier a lot earlier you know I'm trying to appreciate what what Disney you know was doing

[00:33:03] back in the late 70s because you know this is this is a couple years after Star Wars yeah

[00:33:11] and this does it this looks like a decade earlier than Star Wars you know and of course again

[00:33:16] there's different companies involved so I'm trying to remember and in these days we think of Disney as

[00:33:22] fairly on top of the everything um so I don't remember you know back then what their live action

[00:33:28] was known for but this was this was not yeah I yeah the decade or earlier just in color

[00:33:37] the the the prior Disney action films were the computer or time to choose and the Apple

[00:33:43] Dumbling Gang and flubber except here I you know I tell you I like flubber a lot

[00:33:51] flubbers one well yes of course Fred McBerry who do you know I was looking about the film

[00:33:56] and I was this film cost Disney 20 million dollars which at that time was a record

[00:34:03] but comparison yes but in comparison Star Trek the motion picture that cost 44 million dollars

[00:34:12] to make oh wow Star Wars cost 18 million so you're looking like who got more bang for their

[00:34:19] buck did Star Wars get more for the 18 million then it does need the answers yeah yeah without a doubt

[00:34:26] but then you look then we mentioned really about the comparison of to 20,000 leagues under the

[00:34:31] sea which this kind of has that same feel of it the mad scientists who wants to do good and so on

[00:34:38] that movie in 1954 cost nine million dollars at that point the most expensive movie ever made

[00:34:45] but you know that 1954 right 1950 so yeah so you're really you go that's a good 25 years earlier

[00:34:52] so that means what year what year was 20,000 leagues made 1954 when oh Adina do me a favor look up

[00:35:02] when Ben Hur was made okay what was the previous most expensive film before 20,000 really yeah

[00:35:11] okay yeah so okay so it's 15.2 million wow in 1959 yeah

[00:35:22] according to a lot of money yeah wow that's a lot of money

[00:35:25] always you're live but never wrong always a big movie that was mentioned in our group chat

[00:35:30] 2001 that was made in what 1968 19,000 yeah and I didn't look up how much that one cost

[00:35:38] 2000. 10.5. 10.5 million. I'm gonna write that considering the season everything of that. That's pretty amazing. Yeah, you think to though we're talking

[00:35:50] innovators in their field for Star Wars for 2001. Yeah

[00:35:55] They were innovating

[00:35:57] Things I don't think this and Disney isn't it wasn't innovator though in

[00:36:03] cartoons animations

[00:36:05] animation right

[00:36:07] Action at that point. It just it just I it was like they made this film and they didn't

[00:36:12] Innovate with it. They should have tried to innovate something new and because I'm too because I honestly like

[00:36:20] At the beginning of the film I thought it looked pretty good with all the digital effects and

[00:36:26] CGI stuff and then even

[00:36:29] You know some of this I like the exterior shots really weren't terrible

[00:36:33] They weren't the best they were so like but yeah, but I just as the film went on it was just like oh my god

[00:36:39] It's especially with the matte paintings interior shots of the ship

[00:36:43] So now you talk about all of that with a better script. Okay. Yeah, it's a bit bad

[00:36:48] But here's the thing you mentioned about Disney's innovation three years later

[00:36:54] 1982 comes out what's this movie? Tron

[00:36:58] Tron

[00:37:00] Talk about innovation talk about I mean making ground breaking

[00:37:06] Computer animated computer enhanced film all about computers and the funny thing was right after we were done watching the black hole

[00:37:16] Lane turns me she says, you know what I want to let's watch Tron

[00:37:20] Just as a comparison and you could just see how

[00:37:23] Tron was

[00:37:25] Disney at its best and coming up with something

[00:37:28] Completely out of the box. I wonder somewhere along the way someone said you know the black hole was a missed opportunity

[00:37:34] What can we do to

[00:37:36] Well, push the envelope

[00:37:38] According to Wikipedia they were in 2009 considering a remake

[00:37:44] But eventually it did get did get out of the black hole yeah, oh interesting

[00:37:50] But it's not it's neck, you know right right yeah, so then they made John Carter right

[00:38:00] What's so

[00:38:04] How about that ending

[00:38:07] Make heads I've got thoughts but I'm gonna go last because I'm hosting this week. Sorry about that kid

[00:38:13] So how about that ending what do you guys can make?

[00:38:19] To be in heaven and hell is that like the it's a punchline

[00:38:23] Hey kids, let's have a metaphor right here. Okay, cuz we don't know what to hell to do with the end of this film

[00:38:29] Literally

[00:38:31] You know it's like okay, they're floating in space. There's there's evil doctor

[00:38:37] Ryan Hart and Max a million all of a sudden they're mailed together and you can see his eyes through the hole

[00:38:44] Right come on kids

[00:38:48] So thoughts

[00:38:50] That would mean that robots go to heaven do

[00:38:53] No, they go to hell

[00:38:56] I'm talking about Vincent oh Vincent well yeah, that's true. No. Yeah

[00:38:59] Well then that week you make a new movie called all good robots go to heaven

[00:39:06] That's a good I have better luck describing and parsing out the ending of 2001 than

[00:39:15] Good Chris

[00:39:17] What's so brilliant about

[00:39:19] 2001's ending is he was still debating it like I have been trying to figure this out for a long time

[00:39:25] Fan-tav I think there's even like TikTok videos where

[00:39:30] Stanley Kubrick has like sort of explained it and even then people there's still so many questions

[00:39:36] But there's questions with this one, but it's not the same. It's not like it's a brilliant like what does it actually mean?

[00:39:42] It's just like okay right after

[00:39:45] Thinking about it again. Yeah, okay, no wait

[00:39:48] That's not true you'll think about it when we produce the episode and get it out

[00:39:57] Didn't Neil deGrasse Tyson say that if you were to enter a black hole

[00:40:02] You would be in long-gated like spaghetti. I mean, I still know where I heard something of that nature of what would happen to you

[00:40:09] Watch the other black hole movie. That's really good

[00:40:14] Event horizon

[00:40:16] I was gonna say interstellar even though I wouldn't call it a black hole movie, but okay

[00:40:19] So the reality is we don't have any direct measurement experiments

[00:40:25] or anything that anyone wants to say about what would happen as your approach to black hole is all

[00:40:30] You know some theoretical speculation, but yet, but yes

[00:40:34] What deGrasse Tyson is saying about that is true. So really at the end of the day

[00:40:39] You know we know okay the earth has some mass and we feel you know

[00:40:42] We live in what we call one g one gravity

[00:40:46] We know if you look at the sun there's a lot more mass

[00:40:49] So assuming forget the temperature for a second assuming you could stand on the surface

[00:40:53] You'd be crushed because you'd be pulled in the weight now just consider

[00:40:58] More mass not larger, but more massive and massive and massive so

[00:41:04] Everything you know you feel that gravity more and more and more and more and more at some point it crosses the limit

[00:41:11] To where nothing could eventually like nothing can at least mathematically be predicted to come out and so

[00:41:19] Light is also affected by gravity. So even light gets pulled in which is why we call it

[00:41:27] You know the term is a black hole and

[00:41:30] Again in a lot of science things get named and sometimes the names are unfortunate

[00:41:35] But that's just what it is but yeah, the end of the day

[00:41:38] It's like as much mass as you could possibly have school you know like

[00:41:42] Mathematically predict squeezed into a spot

[00:41:45] Then nothing comes out. So

[00:41:48] Yes, because if you have something

[00:41:51] You know the earth is actually pulling on your feet more than it's pulling on your head

[00:41:56] You just don't feel it because we were built to survive this environment on the Sun on Jupiter

[00:42:01] You might actually start feeling it so the more mass then you'll feel that more so

[00:42:06] Yes, it's a gratitude. It's not wrong about this. Okay, so that's I did hear correct about that

[00:42:14] And again and then designing a spaceship that has an anti-gravity device

[00:42:19] That's all fiction fiction. I know it's just like it's just like really really okay

[00:42:25] But that's you know again, we accept I'm okay with that too in this movie as much as I'm okay with just the fact that

[00:42:31] The enterprise you know just has some kind of magical

[00:42:36] Antigrav system so they seem to be in just you know

[00:42:40] And I'm okay for the purposes of when we watch Star Wars when we watch Star Trek and a lot of it is

[00:42:45] We accept it because honestly, it's easier to film. It's easier to produce if they had a worry about gravity

[00:42:51] It would just be a much more expensive thing

[00:42:53] So let's just they've got some magic technology because it's a future or you know galaxy far far away a long time ago and that's fine

[00:43:00] And you know just seeing it enough I read that they

[00:43:04] Originally were gonna try to film this whole film without gravity

[00:43:10] And they were in so as they started filming you'll notice the opening scene. They're all floating

[00:43:16] In the Palomita

[00:43:17] They realized what a pain in the butt that was gonna be and how long it would take in expensive all that stuff

[00:43:23] So that's when they actually wrote in hey, we need this anti-gravity whatever thing to yeah

[00:43:29] So that we could just but at least in modern films we do have

[00:43:34] Devices spacecraft that produce a gravity by centrifugal force

[00:43:40] That's in

[00:43:41] 2001 that was in the Martian and other films where you do have a rotating portion to create an artificial gravity

[00:43:50] Yeah, and we we have to be and then again people have to be very careful because it is

[00:43:56] What they're still do it? They're still taking some leaps in doing that in film and it is still these are we're talking about films

[00:44:02] It also again do have a big budget too

[00:44:05] You know the Martian was not a small budget film so it's still expensive to film it and so I get

[00:44:13] Even in Star Trek which has big budgets. I really get it's a convenient thing if you're in a situation where you can

[00:44:19] Manufacture tech, you know just invent yourself some technology just to get around production costs

[00:44:23] I have no problem. I'm as long as your self-consistent within your story in your universe

[00:44:30] I'm okay, you know it works. It's okay and their ships can stop in space

[00:44:36] Like get stopped like 90 loading a little bit

[00:44:40] It's impossible to no no no so it depends on where you are

[00:44:45] And depends on what yeah, yeah, it depends on where you are and depends on what you mean by stop

[00:44:49] You know if you are truly in between stars

[00:44:52] You know if you're moving and you apply a thrust the other way, you can stop relative to

[00:45:01] Anything you can do if you're in orbit

[00:45:04] No, you don't you don't just stop

[00:45:07] You're moving with respect to something. What is that something and to some perspective like a geo-synchronous spacecraft

[00:45:16] From a certain point of view looks like it is hovering over the surface of the earth

[00:45:20] It's not it just happens to be rotating at the same rate as the earth is rotating

[00:45:25] So it's all a matter of your frame of reference and such too. Okay, I would think you look more like the times they just say

[00:45:32] Come like enter all like

[00:45:34] You know take us a full stop, but then they just stop and then they usually that's when they're not in orbit around

[00:45:39] They're like in between all the gravitational bodies

[00:45:43] Yeah, but you could actually do have an opposite force applied

[00:45:48] To against a gravitational body to in counter stop if you're a full stop

[00:45:54] Yeah, yeah, well again if you're in orbit

[00:45:58] No, if you're away from orbit like yes

[00:46:04] Unless you're doing some other magical technology to you know be not in orbit yet. Just be there

[00:46:11] Welcome to physics class 101 with the big sci-fi podcast

[00:46:16] We can take it all back. I think like

[00:46:19] It's like okay, you can complain about the gravitational field or whatever they had

[00:46:24] But I feel like okay, that's that's fine

[00:46:27] Again, it would like I think all those things would be forgiving if it was a better film

[00:46:32] I enjoyed it because it was terrible

[00:46:34] But if it was actually a good film, I think it could get past

[00:46:38] A lot of those things

[00:46:41] Like a week we have that so it on a pillow

[00:46:44] I'd like this I like this film no bad would you say this so was bad even though I liked it

[00:46:49] What was those exact words? I like that. I think we should I like it because it's like there's like

[00:46:54] It's like the movie The Room with Tommy was so word like it's so bad that it's

[00:46:58] It's enjoyable. There's

[00:47:01] Oh hi Chris oh hi Steve oh hi Chris

[00:47:05] Yeah, sorry, no idea what you're talking about

[00:47:08] So okay, you gotta bring this back bring us back Brian is

[00:47:13] Guys, I just apologize for asking you to watch this film. I thought it was gonna be much better than it was

[00:47:20] So for me the ending of the film I feel like they just didn't like how did they wrap this up?

[00:47:25] They threw in some action they threw in some special effects of them getting sucked into the wormhole

[00:47:31] It's almost like they tried to do a little

[00:47:33] 2001 e

[00:47:35] trippy thing and then next thing we know

[00:47:39] This guy is apparently in Hades in hell

[00:47:45] And the robot maximum millions there and they come together in a very awkward moment and

[00:47:51] He's inside the robot all of a sudden and so

[00:47:55] Is you know, what are they saying there? Are they saying

[00:47:58] He and the robot were the same he created this is his

[00:48:02] Judgment for being so it really frankly playing God

[00:48:07] With everybody on the ship and with his desire to kind of

[00:48:12] you know

[00:48:13] Trump everybody's needs above

[00:48:16] Below his own desire to find out what a black hole is all about so very strange numbers are

[00:48:22] Guys two more questions, and then I can alleviate your pain in your torment this evening

[00:48:28] Is this film worth watching as a point of interest for the discerning science fiction fan or

[00:48:36] Should we tell people don't waste your time?

[00:48:40] I don't think so

[00:48:42] Unless you really want to make a film

[00:48:45] It's always good to watch the bad ones too

[00:48:47] But I'd say if you're just looking for something fun to watching your sci-fi fan

[00:48:51] probably not

[00:48:52] Okay, okay

[00:48:55] What I wrote is yes

[00:48:56] You should watch this. This is a unique

[00:48:59] science fiction film that should be seen

[00:49:02] You you might not like it, but it is part of a series of science fiction films that we

[00:49:08] We've reviewed and seen

[00:49:10] And that may not be great

[00:49:12] But we was we still watch them because we should including

[00:49:17] moonfall moonfall

[00:49:19] But even though

[00:49:21] cheesy films like this and cheesy films like star wars

[00:49:26] Our films that we should see because they represent what was coming out in the late 70s and films

[00:49:33] And these only led to better films that came from them. We learned from these films

[00:49:40] Chris and I are both the guest

[00:49:43] Hey, hey, I don't ever use that term

[00:49:45] We're most dismayed

[00:49:47] perplexed hey, hey if if if start check the motion picture wasn't so ponderous

[00:49:53] And comparing it to wrath of con that makes wrath of con see like whoa

[00:49:58] Well, that's great compared to

[00:50:02] Uh

[00:50:03] So yeah, you know they do lead to better films they do lead to better films

[00:50:08] so

[00:50:09] I'm gonna say and I think I'm one of the ones who I'm fairly forgiving in the sense that even if the movie is not necessarily

[00:50:18] um

[00:50:19] Even could be a little difficult to watch usually I'm like well in the

[00:50:23] If you want that full round, you know well-rounded sci-fi education

[00:50:27] I'm usually the person to say yes go watch the film

[00:50:30] In this case, I'm like it is this there's nothing about here that you need that will round out your sci-fi education

[00:50:35] Absolutely not

[00:50:37] If you want a Disney film from that era and this is one we should probably cover because this is one

[00:50:44] I feel like I do have a reasonable memory of

[00:50:47] um

[00:50:49] You know escape from which mountain

[00:50:52] I've been out to watch that one too. Yeah, there's like other did if you're looking for like that Disney fix with a sci-fi

[00:50:59] way

[00:51:01] That one um and it's from a little later uh what is it light of the navigator

[00:51:06] Oh, I see there was also recommended like

[00:51:09] Yeah, so I feel like there are other movies

[00:51:13] That will be more worth your time way more worth your time and of course tron

[00:51:19] That you know at part of that again, they're gonna be 70s 80s films so expect them to be 70s 80s films but that definitely have much more

[00:51:28] um

[00:51:30] There's still something more there this this is just yeah it's so basically flat

[00:51:36] I was gonna say maybe our tagline is we watch these films so you don't have to

[00:51:41] In this case yes

[00:51:43] Yes, you know, you know, I'm final yeah go ahead Chris

[00:51:48] Two final thoughts one. Let's make it very clear

[00:51:52] That we are not saying that Star Wars is a bad movie. We do not want to compare it to the black hole and say no

[00:51:59] No one says Star Wars is a bad movie. Steve called it cheesy

[00:52:02] It is cheesy

[00:52:05] It's cheesy

[00:52:08] I'm sorry, but they even said the actors even said while they were going aren't really this script these words were supposed to say these things

[00:52:15] Steve I've never just

[00:52:18] But I but that's okay. I love Star Wars. It's a great film. It started something

[00:52:23] But it is a cheesy movie

[00:52:25] I wouldn't know I feel like maybe we don't spend an episode

[00:52:30] Just gotta be another

[00:52:34] And the second point I want to make it also recommended or not recommended

[00:52:38] But there's another movie that Disney plus related to with a certain Joey Trebiani in space

[00:52:46] Which I feel like this is rigabella anybody lost the space

[00:52:50] That was like the reading from like 2010 or something

[00:52:53] Then we're talking about some lady stuff

[00:52:56] Oh, this one I recommend that's all I'm saying. I'm just saying it was related to go under related 1999

[00:53:02] It was that

[00:53:04] Yeah, yeah

[00:53:07] John was it hurt?

[00:53:10] William hurt William hurt that's right. Yeah, Joey Trebiani my goodness

[00:53:14] Oh, yeah, you know

[00:53:16] As a humongous friends fan and I saw that movie in the theater being a humongous friends fan and anxious to see

[00:53:24] Matt LeBonk and other things

[00:53:27] And I'm a big sci-fi fan

[00:53:28] That was not my favorite movie either but I don't think I would say I wouldn't want it again

[00:53:32] I

[00:53:34] Would watch that again just to see if I remember it correctly. I'm gonna

[00:53:38] I'm gonna say guys this film falls so flat. I appreciate everyone's

[00:53:44] Appreciation of it on some level or

[00:53:47] lack of any appreciation for it. Um, I'm gonna say and Steve man. I just

[00:53:54] I just I feel so bad my heart hurts that I disagree with you so much about cheesy Star Wars and about

[00:54:02] People watching this so I say avoid this at all costs. It is not worth the time go by the soundtrack or

[00:54:10] Or better yet don't spend money on just find it on Spotify or YouTube or something and listen to the soundtrack. It's interesting

[00:54:19] Yeah, so guys

[00:54:21] Let's let's not let's not waste any more time here or or you know

[00:54:27] I feel like adina's like just

[00:54:30] Ready to sign off at any moment and guys we need to care for adina's mental health tonight. Okay, so what

[00:54:38] What on a scale of one to five?

[00:54:42] Okay the brine donny hue classic rating system

[00:54:47] Like Steve call or whatever Steve calls it

[00:54:50] What would you rate this film will start with a

[00:54:54] A resident nice guy and I want to make sure I point out he's so nice. I'm so sad. I disagree with you tonight

[00:55:01] What what uh, what would you rate this film?

[00:55:05] One to five stars or less than one you know, I have to give it something and

[00:55:11] Okay, I'm gonna give it 1.5

[00:55:14] a 1.5 because

[00:55:17] there is

[00:55:18] It is worth watching just for the

[00:55:21] Understanding of what the film was

[00:55:24] um, but I wouldn't really on my own now go back and watch it again. I've seen it. I'm done. Right. That's fine

[00:55:31] But I would not say don't watch this. I would not say I would say do watch it

[00:55:36] Just be ready for what you're gonna see

[00:55:39] right Chris

[00:55:42] I'm using the IGN scale which means nothing but I always this is how I rate my movies

[00:55:47] Because one is just like awful unbearable. Don't even bother with it to me. This is a four or five

[00:55:54] Good really not good but

[00:55:57] No

[00:55:59] We wait

[00:56:03] Out of 10 that's a

[00:56:07] Oh, one to five yeah

[00:56:09] We're here more like 2.5 you're around 2.5 then we're all if you guys could have seen the eyebrows raise when Chris said a four or five

[00:56:19] It was

[00:56:22] I always think I was thinking that Chris has got some Disney stocky needs to go up

[00:56:26] So he wants to make a little more money or something right so okay, Chris

[00:56:29] I have to from one to five stars yeah

[00:56:33] One to five stars

[00:56:35] Yeah, one you know, I'm gonna say it too

[00:56:37] Okay, okay, too good. That's fair. Yeah, Adina

[00:56:42] I'm also in about the one and a half category where at least a half or more goes to Vincent alone

[00:56:49] Yeah, yeah, okay, what's this having grace? Hey, it's in that we can all agree. I think tonight that makes me my heart warm

[00:56:57] I'm gonna give this a one as well. Okay, and

[00:57:02] I just I feel like I'm giving it a one

[00:57:06] Because of three factors the music score

[00:57:11] Ernest Borg-9 who who I loved in macaels navy group watch and macaels navy the television show

[00:57:17] So I've got a warm spot for mr. Borg-9 in my heart and Vincent

[00:57:23] um, I wanted to like it because of

[00:57:27] Uh dr. Reinhart that actor

[00:57:29] uh, I

[00:57:31] I've seen judgment at Nuremberg several times which stars our own

[00:57:35] William Shatner as well Spencer Tracy

[00:57:38] uh just

[00:57:40] incredibly

[00:57:42] well done film

[00:57:45] But it's so disappointing that this role could have been much he could have been the movie

[00:57:52] His character could have been the movie it could have been a shining light in the film and it wasn't so for that

[00:57:58] I give it a one and

[00:58:01] Any any final thoughts before I sign off tonight

[00:58:06] No ladies watch

[00:58:08] Watch gold finger

[00:58:11] Okay, if you really want that if you want it if you want to enjoy the soundtrack of this movie just watch gold finger

[00:58:16] Okay, that's it cool

[00:58:18] Uh, and I will say this I will my final thought is I will probably watch moonfall before I watch this film again

[00:58:25] Whoa, so

[00:58:28] Starship troopers folks

[00:58:30] Never starship troopers or even robo cop

[00:58:33] robo cop oh my god

[00:58:36] We're bringing up all of

[00:58:38] Poor Brian. He's gonna go over PTSD movie PTSD

[00:58:42] There's good stuff. Let's talk with the good stuff all right

[00:58:45] Well folks I apologize once again for asking my really good friends to watch

[00:58:53] The film the black hole. I had no idea how terrible it was

[00:58:56] I thought it looked pretty good and intriguing and it was

[00:58:59] Intriguing at least for the first half of the film

[00:59:02] But then it all just went but do we all over the television and I was I just had to watch it because after all

[00:59:08] I picked this episode in this film to watch so

[00:59:12] How do you guys feel about it? Would you let us know we are serious when we say please email us

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[01:00:23] Tastic, mm-hmm. I did their fan

[01:00:27] Tastic lots of fans will be there anyways remember we're on this trek together folks

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[01:00:46] You