Our Top 3 Characters from Star Trek: Voyager

[00:00:00] This is the Big Sci-Fi Podcast, the biggest sci-fi podcast in the galaxy, a proud part of the Trek Geeks Podcast Network. Season 6 was a blast, but Season 7 is going to be even more fun as we continue to go where no podcast has gone before, deep into the sci-fi universe. Join Idina, Brian, Chris, and Steve as they explore television, film, and literature for the best sci-fi has to offer.

[00:00:26] Even if you're not a sci-fi fan, you'll love the banter and the epic tangents as these four friends talk about what they love. We invite you to sit back and relax because the journey is just beginning on this season of The BIG Sci-Fi Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome to The BIG Sci-Fi Podcast.

[00:00:47] Now, I need to tell you that I remember very clearly 30 years ago. The year was 1995. It was January. It was cold. It was the middle of my third year of college. And while I was a deep Star Trek Next Generation fan and a fan of Deep Space Nine as well, I remember being very excited for Voyager because the female captain.

[00:01:14] I remember that feeling of this is a big deal and it's about gosh darn time. I remember watching that first episode in my dorm room with my roommate, Tess, who might be listening to this. Shout out to Tess if she is. Now, honestly, beyond that initial feeling, I don't remember much from back then. I know I watched a lot of the original series and its original run until about 1996 or so.

[00:01:37] I stopped only because I was in my last year of college. And yes, for anyone doing the math, I was in college for five years earning two degrees. But life was taking priority. But now, you know, we're not here to talk about my life. We are here to talk about Voy. Specifically, my co-host and I are going to talk about our top three favorite Voyager characters.

[00:02:00] Before going any further, I want to do two things. One, remind you that if you're not already subscribed to this podcast on your favorite platform, please do so right now. Just a little click. Little click. Next, I want all my co-hosts to say hello and ask, did you watch Voyager in its original run or did you encounter it a little bit later? Let's go. Brian, we're going to start with you. Everybody, it's Brian from Ohio. Still living in Ohio. I don't know why I say that every time. I just do.

[00:02:29] I watched Voyager in its original run on UPN. I was very excited, had the remote control for my VHS recorder player, and I was ready to stop recording at every commercial and start recording when the show came back on. So I didn't have to watch the stupid commercials when I rewatched the episodes. And so I watched probably, I think, through the fifth season solidly. And then I kind of lost interest, but it was also life.

[00:03:01] Life does that. Yeah. Life gets life. But I am happy to report that I am starting Voyager from scratch as of last month, and I plan to watch the entire series through. Okay. Chris. So I'm trying to remember if I watched it through the original run because I was in the fifth grade when it ended. And I remember like it was a big deal when when it was ending. And I know we had like family over. It was like a whole night to watch that two hour finale.

[00:03:31] I loved it. And I it's this is a weird thing. Like, I don't remember watching it all the way through, but I don't remember watching the final and thinking that, oh, my gosh, I miss so much. Like, I felt like I knew everything I needed to know in that final. So I feel like I must have watched it maybe on and off or like saw most of it.

[00:03:54] But I do remember distinctly when I was really young and kind of dumb that it took me a while to get warmed up to Voyager because in my head, all starships were supposed to have round saucers. I had a really tough time getting used to the oval saucer or the not oval saucer, but, you know, the oval shape of the ship. But it took me a while to get used to that.

[00:04:18] And then I remember in grade six, I would just come home every night and at four o'clock on the new VR in Ontario, Channel 20, I would watch Voyager. And I just fell in love with the series. And it's it's always when I go back to. Cool. And Steve. Brian, the reason why you always say hi, this is Brian from Ohio is because it's embedded to say the Ohio.

[00:04:44] So you're like, yes, it's just it's just a natural way that you do your introduction. And I love it. I'm proud to say I know how to spell Ohio all by myself, too. I don't have to yell out O-H randomly and expect some other person to say I-O, which is what we do in Ohio for the football team. So anyway, just for the football team. So if I come to visit you, I can't just go to like we can't go to like a shopping mall. I can randomly yell out. If you if you if you yell out in Ohio, O-H, someone will yell back.

[00:05:14] I-O. I guarantee it. That's a challenge. It's for the Buckeyes. Right. OK. It's for the Ohio State Buckeyes. So anyways, I digress. Thank you, Steve. I appreciate it. You're welcome. And I digress as well. Back to what we are to talk about, which is when did we first or when did I first start watching Voyager? And of course, it was when it came on because it was a new Star Trek series. So I had to turn it on and I had to watch it.

[00:05:42] But I said this countless times. By that time when Voyager came out, I was getting really burnt out. So I didn't watch it all the time when it was on or watch it religiously as we did next generation or even to some degree Deep Space Nine. So I but I did watch it on and off and I enjoyed it. And and I have to agree with you, Chris.

[00:06:10] No, I didn't have the whole family around for the two hour finale, but I was very happy with the way they closed off the show. I was very satisfied with what they did. And I think that was a fitting end to its seven year run. So there you go. Yeah. And I have a feeling because this is the 30th anniversary of when the show began. We're probably going to wind up talking a lot about Voyager over the next few months here and in other forums.

[00:06:36] I know I'll be very shortly on the Star Trek cruise, which has a very Voyager theme. And most of the entire original Voyager cast is going to be there. So, yeah, this whole spring is going to be like very Voyager centric. You should buy yourself a used Plymouth Voyager minivan like I am. Then you'd be in great shape. And yes, I did buy that in 1996.

[00:07:03] So I did own a Voyager during the whole time Voyager was on TV. So there you go. Oh, that's great. That's awesome. I did try and name my car the Delta Flyer. And I say try because I thought it was a great idea. And then I just forgot to refer to it by the Delta Flyer. So I just pulled up my car. But in theory, it would have been a cool idea. Nice. It would have been. It would have been. Okay. So now this is the way we're going to do this.

[00:07:27] We are going to work backwards from three to one because everyone's coming with their top three favorite characters. So that means I'm going to go around and ask everyone to talk about their third favorite. Then we'll do another round with the second. And then, you know, so on. Folks at home, feel free to play along. Like who are your top three favorites? Who are you about to agree with or disagree with? Make sure you let us know on our Facebook page or by sending us an email.

[00:07:52] And guys, when I call on you to do your third choice, feel free at that point to talk about potentially the struggles and how long it took you to come up with this list. Do you have any honorable mentions? Were you facilitating or vacillating on your picks? And I really want to start, Brian, with you. Oh, no. So I have had some trouble picking my top three.

[00:08:20] And right before we started the show, I had not. There was one I was going back and forth. And then I decided I was going to go a different route and actually change some of the order of my top three. Although my number three has remained solid the entire time. So it was it was I've been thinking about it all week. I thought I'd have it down this morning and then I'm like, I don't know. I'm going to have to think about it. And so here I go.

[00:08:48] My third favorite character from Star Trek Voyager is Counselor Deanna Troy. Hey, OK. All right. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But that's good. So you guys took way too long. I'm going to have to. No, I was. I was really out there. I was processing going. Wait a minute. Did she appear on it in a guest role? Like one episode? Would you just like a walk on like, hey, do you know how you doing? Hey, hi, guys. And then I'm just kidding.

[00:09:18] Or maybe they watched an old movie with her on or something. Dina made fun of me last one of our last Star Trek episodes because she said I was picking Deanna Troy centric episodes for our top ten. You did. Because you did. Nothing wrong with that. But you did. You were making fun. Just to clarify to the audience. Yeah, I wasn't making fun. I was just pointing it out. Yes. Yes, indeed. It felt like. All right. OK. So finally, my number three is. He's still deciding in his head. This is why.

[00:09:48] No, I'm not. I have it written down right here. My number three is solidly Ensign Harry Kim. OK. I first of all, I just couldn't help but root for the guy in every way, shape and form. He had a hard time in love, had a hard time getting promotions, which is what we always talk about as Star Trek fans and nerds about Harry Kim. Right. But man, he never gave up.

[00:10:17] He might have complained every now and then to his good buddy, Tom Paris and whoever would listen, frankly. But Harry Kim, man, he's he's that person. You could depend on him. He was there. He was a good friend. He wanted to he wanted to make everyone on that ship proud and was happy to be a part of the crew. And so and I just I just he was one I really liked.

[00:10:44] I remember in the first season, he's just one maybe for a younger guy at the time. I felt like, man, I can see a lot of myself in him, you know, really wanting to please people will do well, but still a little bit lacking in some confidence in different areas. So it resonated with me. And as the series progressed, yeah, he didn't really get all the promotions maybe other characters did or you would think he would get.

[00:11:13] But I just I felt like he had a good character and I love the way Garrett Wong played him, too. I just felt he did a fine job. And that's that's my number three. I resonate and relate with Harry Kim. OK, Adina knows this and I know this. But I'm going to ask you this. Did you watch last week's episode of a lot of Lower Decks? I have watched like one point five episodes.

[00:11:39] Would you please take a moment to go watch last week's episode of Lower Decks? In January by last week's episode, we're referring to the penultimate Lower Decks episode. Yes, we record these ahead of time. Yes. So, yes. So by hopefully by the time this is airs, you'll have watched it and we'll go from there. OK. All right.

[00:12:07] Well, and what I'll say about that Lower Decks episode is anyone generally people who are if you haven't seen it yet, people who are fans of Deep Space Nine and Voyager should watch that episode. Yeah. Even Enterprise. Enterprise. You bet. Yes. There is there is a lot of fun in this particular one. Yes. Or even a movie called First Contract. Contact. There's also. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would watch the movie First Contract, though, too. It is. It's a mafia film.

[00:12:37] It's a mafia film. It's a mafia film. OK. OK. Steve, you're going next. All right. Who is your third favorite Voyager character? Now, I put these down. So I'll go in order of how I wrote them, how I came to each one. Maybe that's why this is it. And this is three and the two and one. And I also gave myself three requirements, a why, a reasons and a character. And I do that for each one of these.

[00:13:05] So my first choice, third choice of the first choice is Captain Janeway. Now, the why. And it was for Star Trek the first time a woman was in command of a starship. This had never been done before. Mm-mm-mm. As a lead of the TV series. It had been done in, like, an episode here or there. Right. Right. But in full command. Yes. I just want to make that distinction.

[00:13:34] Or for the length or for more than just a regular character. Because that would have stayed true until they decided to, in Enterprise, bring upon us Captain Hernandez, who was captain of the NXO to Columbia. Or then even into Strange New Worlds. Mm-hmm. Captain Battelle, who's also the love interest of Captain Pike. And she's been appearing in all three seasons.

[00:14:02] So she's been an established captain of a starship. But what I. Well, wait a second. Wait a second. No, I'm going to go. I'm going to go back. Okay. Okay. Well, because back in Next Generation, in the first season, Trilus Scott, they had established that there definitely clearly were female captains. Oh, and Boyd Troll. We just didn't see them for more than one episode. Yeah. And Boyd Troll also has a first female captain, too. I think maybe the first female captain. Yeah.

[00:14:30] Because she's in charge of, she's in command of the, not Custodoga, Saratoga. And had a chance to be more of a developed character. But again, that's just one point. That's just one point. Even like the Strange New Worlds. Of a Trek series. But even Strange New Worlds, like she's not a main character, you know. No, but she's more of a reoccurring character that's been through all three seasons. So again, just as a point. But again. Yeah.

[00:14:55] Now the reasons were, and she might have been the most practical captain of any of the starships. She seemed very level-headed. She knew what she was doing. I mean, she was stuck in the Delta Quadrant all by herself with her crew. And she had to make these decisions. And I think that because of that, I really liked the way that she was portrayed.

[00:15:19] And her character always stayed true to herself and to her crew and to those that she encountered along the way back home. And man, she does a great Catherine Hepburn impression as well. You know what I mean? That was when the first time I saw her on screen, that's the image that popped into my head was Catherine Hepburn, which is actually a compliment because Catherine Hepburn always played smart, intelligent, powerful.

[00:15:49] Well-spoken. Well-spoken characters. And I think that's what I liked about her as the captain of the Voyager. Okay. So you've got Janeway. And so, Chris, who was your third pick? Who was your top third favorite character? Yeah. Picking the top three characters, that was easy. As soon as he said it, I was like, I know who I'm doing. So just to repeat, Steve, for me, it's Captain Janeway.

[00:16:15] Like, for a lot of the reasons Steve mentioned, I think it's so cool to have a character like her who is, you know, the first female lead of a, like, of a Trek show. I love the fact because I don't think we've seen this a lot where a captain, because usually we, like, I'm not even really sure if all captains have their specialty. But you think of Picard as being his specialty is diplomacy.

[00:16:36] But she's a scientist first, so she's able to get in a lot more of the, like, involved in the science-y aspects of the show, which I think is really unique. I love that she, from watching the show, I feel like she's able to capture the diplomacy of Picard, but is equally as capable as Sisko at combat, at tactical situations. So she seems like a very well-balanced captain. And I just, I love watching her, and I love the way she speaks.

[00:17:06] And maybe it is the Captain Hepburn-ness, but there's just something about her that I always enjoy. And I'm just always so thankful that, okay, she's one of the greats. And it's always frustrating, because when I try and rank my favorite captains, it's like, well, I'd like Janeway so close to number two, is, like, probably the second, but could probably be number one. And then it's always just hard to decide how I feel. But, yeah, so she's great.

[00:17:29] I love her, and, yeah, I think she's, like, the perfect, she's the perfect captain for the show, and I think Kate Mulgrew is just the perfect person to play her. Yep. Yep. Okay, cool. So, for me, I had serious angst issues somewhat akin to Brian, although not with my whole list. My top one and two picks, those were easy.

[00:17:55] I've been doing a rewatch of Voyager in the last few months, partly in anticipation of with the 30th anniversary coming up and seeing all the cast on the cruise. I was like, okay, I'm going to rewatch the whole thing. So I'm somewhere about at the start of season six. Wow. And it's reaffirmed, I think, some of what I would have thought, you know, if you'd asked me this a year ago, I think I, you know, it's reaffirmed. Watching it has just kind of solidified that.

[00:18:24] But my third pick, that was the hardest. And part of it is because, like, I don't want to leave anyone out because I generally am a fan of all the characters. There's no one, there's no character that I dislike. So I feel bad not including all of them in a top three, but I can only, you know, I can only pick three.

[00:18:47] So I want to give some honorable mentions, but then I don't because it then will narrow down my top two and one. Let's do honorable mentions at the end. At the end? Okay. Yeah. Well, because, for me, like, everyone is an honorable mention. I love everybody. I love this show. Yeah, and I also want to say that, like, in the whole people are allowed to change their mind. I am too.

[00:19:12] It's possible that in the past I've said that Janeway is my number one favorite. But I'm also putting her at number three. Oh, wow. Just like Chris and Steve. But I think I've probably said, and it's just because, you know, you go through moods. And I definitely go through moods where I'm like, I am in a Janeway mood. Janeway is the best, you know. And, but as I'm rewatching it, there are two characters that I think are more consistently over the decades.

[00:19:43] Oh, wow. I can't wait. More favorite-ish. I can't wait. Okay. So Janeway is, so three of us put Janeway as number three. Okay. It's kind of cool. Wow. Let's just, I think at least for this next round, let's continue the same order. So I'm going to go back to you, Brian. Who is your number two favorite Voyager character? My number two favorite Voyager character of all time is Counselor Deanna. No, I'm just kidding. Pete and repeat. Pete.

[00:20:13] My, uh, Chris mentioned Barkley. Yeah. I loved Barkley and TNG. He's in the same episode as Troy. Yeah. Right. That's the job. Loved him, uh, with here on Voyager. It was cool. They used him to bring him back because he was, he didn't get enough on, he had some great episodes in TNG, but not enough in my opinion. And so anyways, my second favorite is Tom Paris.

[00:20:42] I love Tom. Uh, first of all, I just loved that they used, um, the actor, um, that they, from first duty, because that was one of my all time favorite TNG episodes and his character in particular was intriguing. So the fact that they kind of based that character off of, um, him and then decided, why don't we just use the same guy? Uh, I thought it was really awesome.

[00:21:10] And I just, I loved his restorative story, his redemption story throughout this series where he was kind of, uh, made some mistakes, kind of screw the universe type guy. Um, given up, given up on his life. And Janeway saw something in him and wanted to give him a shot. And he, in the long run made mistakes along the way, like all of us do.

[00:21:39] But, uh, I just love that he had that type of redemptive story that, um, he, he had still had potential, even though he'd made some pretty big mistakes to ruin his life. And he was given another shot. And because of the help of the rest of the crew and the family, they became, he found a place to fit in. He wasn't the outcast. And it was interesting. He was, you know, he wasn't a Maquis, but he was still an outcast kind of. So they went a different route with that.

[00:22:08] And I really loved it and loved his growth as a character. And Robert Duncan McNeil is, I just always appreciated him. Mm-hmm. And can I say that his, as part of his redemption arc, his relationship with B'Elanna, that is absolutely one of my favorite relationships in Trek. I love the Riker-Troy relationship. But after that, I think this is one of my favorite relationships. And the reason is because it felt very natural.

[00:22:38] Yeah. It took time. It wasn't like instant, you know, it took time and you saw it develop. You saw them banter. You saw them flirt, you know, like it took time. Saw them angry as heck at each other. Yes. Yeah. You really did see them in all different kinds of phases. Mm-hmm. I always think of like Monica and Chandler just because like you don't ever like when you start watching the show, you don't instantly think about it. But then when it happens, it seems like, yeah, all right. I get that.

[00:23:08] This makes sense the whole time. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like it just, it worked. And they are, and I just love how Tom changes and I love how Belana changes. And they just really are probably, yeah, one of the best Trek couples for sure. Yeah. Okay. So we got Tom Paris. Okay. Steve. Number two on the list is The Doctor. Now the why? Because he was played by frigging Robert Picardo. That's why.

[00:23:38] Jeez. He was one role that was almost like the role was written for him. Like they, they, they decided before they even put, you know, they're like, okay, who, what we gotta, we gotta find a role for Robert. Okay. We're going to make him The Doctor. Cause it just, it just worked. It just fits so perfectly together. I, I just can't think of a more perfect actor to play a particular character.

[00:24:03] And either way, he, to me, he might be one of the most endearing characters to ever put on a Starfleet uniform, even though he doesn't wear a uniform, he's just a hologram, but that's okay. And, and his acerbic wit, the humor and the compassion all were on display every time he appeared on screen. Not sure any other actor could have played him as well as Robert Picardo did.

[00:24:33] And, um, one of the reasons, the reasons why I chose this is because he's a hologram. I mean, he can slip into any situation and then be gone until he's needed once more. And this gave the writers a lot of freedom to develop his character. Also, since he is a computer image, much like Data, he can develop, does the series went along, allowing him to be, is to change and become more involved.

[00:25:01] And I can't remember when, when in the series they developed the admitter so he could be solid. In three. You know, and so that, that was something they added in, which was a great idea because now it made him three dimensional. And I think that really, really worked. And as far as his character goes, well, now, I don't know. We've talked about this is Neelix, the inspirational and moral center of the, of the show.

[00:25:30] But I really think it was the doctor because anyone could come to him for advice. They can go to him for help and get some understanding. And he was always there for them. And sometimes the crew didn't like what he had to say, but he really, pretty much was right. Most of the time in his interaction with the crew. Yeah. He was one of the, the few at the time. So this is, you know, 1995 at the time he was, I think the one actor that I was familiar

[00:26:00] with when the show came on and I knew him from China beach. Oh, right. Right. That's right. I watched that in high school. Yeah. Uh, I didn't really know, even though, uh, Robbie Duncan McNeil and, and, um, Tim Russ had done a lot of next gen. Yeah. But I didn't really know him. I mean, he had, he had done some, yeah, he'd done some next year. I didn't, I don't think I really know him. And then Robbie Duncan McNeil and Kate Mulgrew, they were soap actors and I had never

[00:26:30] ever been into soap. So like, so yeah, Robert Ricardo was the one that I kind of knew. Oh, and Ethan Phillips. I somehow, I don't remember what I knew him from, but I seem to feel like I knew him too. But yeah, that was, I remember when it started having at least one actor that I'm like, oh, I know who that is. You know, I recognize that guy. It was kind of, that's always kind of nice too. It's nice to get new people, but it's also kind of nice to have some familiarity sometimes. Yeah.

[00:26:56] And he was, he was a seasoned actor when he came on the show. Oh yeah. Between TV and movies and stuff. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chris, who is your number two pick? My number two was seven of nine. I think there's so many reasons to like her, but I just found that Jerry Ryan just was able to play such a unique character. And like, I get, there's so many places to go with this, but it's her redemptive story

[00:27:25] and it's her growing and you get to see the change you'd like from when she's just barely human again. And she wants to go back and then you get to see her develop and develop her relationships. Um, and I think it's one of the perfect examples of the classic outsider character that you have in track, the outsider character who doesn't really understand people. And it's kind of like wants to be away from them, but then kind of slowly develops and you fall in love with them.

[00:27:53] Um, and I just think one of the unfortunate things about her is because she's so attractive and because of the outfit that they gave her is I feel like now it's changing, but for a long time it was like, she was the, I can't, the, I can't, the, I can't. And people were so focused on that, that they didn't see how incredible seven of nine the character is. Um, and she just has so many unique storylines and I think it's, uh, like a way to really get to know the board without having to constantly see the board and see them beyond just, oh,

[00:28:22] they're the bad guys, but we get to understand them more. So I think seven of nine is just phenomenal. And then seeing her in Picard too, it's just like how it's so great to see a character like her who's still the same character, but also just totally different. Um, yeah, yeah. Seven of nine for me. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm going to say as my number two pick is also seven of nine. Get out of town. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:47] But now I have to say, so I agree with Chris on a lot of this, but the things I want to add is I think when Voyager first appeared, I don't think I appreciated the character as much. I liked the character, but it's also partly remember I wasn't fully watching and digesting the show religiously week after week, but now on the rewatch and I have on the benefit of the rewatch is having seen Picard. So having seen the character evolve.

[00:29:17] And now I think that I know more about Jerry Ryan in that in the episodes where seven saying Jerry Ryan can sing, you know? And so there's a lot of that, like, I think appreciation that kind of dovetails into the love for the character. But also in my rewatch, there is such a philosophical thread throughout Voyager that has now become

[00:29:47] very obvious to me that might not have been obvious back then. And also, again, I was a lot younger than I am now. And I really like philosophical threads. I'm going to plug my book for a second because like Lunar Logic, the philosophical thread is free will versus self-determinism. And that kind of where there's this ongoing debate and discussion. And so in Voyager, there is this ongoing debate and discussion about individuality and what

[00:30:14] that means and, you know, being an individual versus submitting to the will of a group or of a call it a boss, a manager, anything, you know, you work for someone or you're beholden to do what they ask you or want you to do. And it's very fascinating on the rewatch. And the fact that Seven will go toe to toe with Janeway, you know, in a lot of the whole,

[00:30:41] wait a second, a couple months ago, you were saying, I need to be an individual. And now you're saying, I have to submit to your collective and, you know, and made Janeway and it would really make Janeway think. And so I really love those threads about Seven. And then, of course, what, you know, the character developed into into Picard also kind of helped. So, yes, my second pick is also Seven of Nine. Okay. Great character.

[00:31:11] Just in such unity and harmony here on this show. Well, it's amazing. It's all we do. We never disagree, ever. I will say, too, I think Seven of Nine is interesting for a couple of reasons. Is Chris is absolutely right. That character was deep, deeper than some people thought because it was hard to get past the outfit.

[00:31:35] And they definitely brought her on board for a particular to get to gain a certain demographic for sure. But the writers did a phenomenal job of giving her actual stuff. And I it was so intriguing to me that here is a character who was captured by the Borg at a young age.

[00:31:57] And she's struggling with being human again and actually like recognizing there was also a level of unity and peace being a part of the collective where that she appreciated. And she found the human life initially very chaotic and hard to understand in loud. And so I thought that was really fascinating that they would go there a little bit with that.

[00:32:26] And then also, I loved that she went toe to toe with Janeway. My only beef with Janeway, especially originally, was it felt like almost like she was never wrong. You know, like like they they really it was like her way or the highway much more than Picard, Kirk or Cisco. And so I loved when Seven came along.

[00:32:55] She really challenged that. And I loved that Janeway. Push. She like you said, Adina, she thought about it. She she considered. And I think that's that was a beautiful partnership in those two characters coming together and having those moments, because it was really it was seven was antagonistic even to Janeway. And though Takote was, too, from time to time.

[00:33:22] But I just think it was really it really created some incredible drama and was wonderful to watch. But now you have to, though, appreciate and I think you guys do appreciate the fact that the key difference between Janeway, Kirk, Picard is Janeway is alone with her crew in the Delta Quadrant. She does not have Starfleet to rely. She has zero colleagues. Yeah, I can I can absolutely see.

[00:33:51] Yes, it does have to be her way if they're going to survive and not disseminate into like, oh, my God, chaos. What the heck is going on here? We're 70,000 years from home. We're never going to get back. Yeah, she kind of had to at the very, very beginning have an absolutely firm, rigid hand on the whole situation. You know, kind of like I always loved I always love the Next Generation episode attached when Picard and and Crusher are sharing thoughts. And at some point she's like, which way do we go?

[00:34:20] And he's like, oh, this way. And she's like, wait a second. You don't actually know. No. And he's like, he's like, well, yes, when you're a leader, sometimes if you don't know, you still have to have the confidence of I do know even you might be wrong and you'll own it if you are wrong. And so Janeway had a to some degree at first she has to rigidly have that everyone has to believe in her. Otherwise, it all falls apart.

[00:34:48] Now, after a few years and they're comfortable together as a crew and she had the Starfleet and the Maquis merge into a crew, then things could less, you know, like she could lessen a little bit and step back and think and let others opinions sway her. You know, like she could loosen up a little bit. But at first, at first year, she had to be like no nonsense my way or the highway in a way that Picard and Kirk didn't have to be. Right. Yeah. Yep. Nope.

[00:35:19] I agree with you. I agree with you all. A hundred percent, Adina, on what you just said. That's exactly right. She was alone. I just heard. Starfleet, what she had to work with.

[00:35:40] Otherwise, if not, yes, theoretically, they would have just devolved into chaos because thinking, here I am floating in the middle of the ocean on a raft. What do I do? Gee, Bob, you look delicious. I think I'll eat you. Because you don't know what's what, you know, you don't know if you're ever going to be saved or not. But you had to keep that moral center going. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:37] And I thought that's why I just love that season finale. I wish they went a little harder, but I have thoughts about it. I still love it, but I have issues with it. But I feel like that's for another episode. We'll save that for when we get into more about Voyager in the next. When we've all rewatched the entire seven seasons. Now you're making me have to do something, Adina, that I didn't have planned. And now I guess I'm going to have to. Okay.

[00:37:05] So I will say this for Captain Janeway, too. Like, I don't think, I don't recall anyone getting pregnant in any weird ways like Trip did. That wasn't anyone's fault, I don't think. Yeah, but he had a... You never put your hand in... Oh, wait a second. Wait a second. No, no, no, no, no. No. Did someone get pregnant in a weird way? Who? Yes. Who? The Janeway Paris lizard babies. Uh, yeah. Yeah. That's true. That was a weird way.

[00:37:35] Yeah. He breaks, like, the Warp 10 crazy speed barrier and morphs into some kind of thing. And then she morphs into some kind of thing. And then it's clear that as they're morphed cells, they made babies. Yeah. That is absolutely a weirdness. But did they have a nipple on their wrists? That's the question I asked. Because Trip did. Okay. Anyway, we're devolving, folks. We're on a raft right now. And we are devolving. So let's get back to... Let's get back to Steve.

[00:38:05] We call them pepperonis in my house, Steve. My kids. Anyways, anyways. All right. I digress. I digress. We're down to who our favorite, favorite, favorite, at least in the moment, our favorite Voyager character is. And we're just going to still go in the same order. Let's do it. Steve's still laughing at the pepperoni joke, ladies and gentlemen. So he's crying, I believe.

[00:38:31] So anyways, I've got some good, funny pepperoni stories. Okay. For off air. Well, thank you. But anyways, my favorite character, and this is where my list got shook up a little bit. I'm going to go with Captain Catherine Janeway. Okay. And this would not have been my choice originally.

[00:38:52] But now that I'm a parent of a daughter and just everything has changed. I want her to see more characters on TV like Captain Janeway who are confident, who know how to be nurturing. Adina, we've talked about this.

[00:39:18] But they're not necessarily, they don't have to be known only for how they nurture and the roles for that. That she can have variety and creativity and be good at a bunch of different stuff and just go for it. The sky's the limit. And so as I've rewatched just the first four or five episodes, I've got a new appreciation for Janeway.

[00:39:42] And also, I've got a co-pastor at our church that's a female. And I believe in that. I believe in equality in that way and equal leadership, co-leadership, whatever the right word is there. But I just, I think that I want to see, I want my daughter to know she can go for it.

[00:40:05] And characters like Catherine Janeway are even in this day and age, in my opinion, rare. Not as, her character was, and we've talked about the women of Deep Space Nine too in various episodes. But her character was not just a breakout thing for Star Trek. It was for all of television.

[00:40:34] Yes, that was why, yeah, I remember that. Just, it was tremendous. And I didn't appreciate it back then because I was young and immature. And, you know, but I just, I'm tremendously impressed. And I want my daughter to see more roles like this on television. Not sexed up. I'm glad they eventually got away from that with Seven of Nine.

[00:40:57] But not, you know, I just, I just think we, we, it's really easy to put a woman in a tight, tightly clad outfit these days still. And I'm shocked that we don't get more upset at that in all kinds of parts of entertainment. A lot of us do get upset at that. A lot of people do. Yeah. They might be ignored. And that's kind of, you know, kind of the problem. But again, we also, I say we have come a little bit of the way. Yeah, sure.

[00:41:26] You know, we've come a little bit of the way. But yeah, no, I remember that feeling. Because right, there were, you know, I've said this before on the show with Deep Space Nine. It was awesome to see you have Dax, you have Kira, you know, they're these strong women in non-traditionally, you know, non-nurturing roles. But then, yes, Janeway, now you have someone in a leadership role. Like the, like, top person. Yes. Right. Right.

[00:41:52] Also, probably, since she's the captain, like, also probably first on the call sheet, you know, and she's, like, lead, like, not second lead, but she's the lead of the show. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you've got Janeway. Catherine Janeway. Okay. And my grandmother and my mother's name. So they're both Catherine. Excellent. So I always love that. Okay. Steve. Steve.

[00:42:17] Well, when you were talking about your second choice, Adina and Chris, I just was very quiet. I really didn't offer anything because, as you might guess, number one is your number two choices, and that was seven of nine and the why. Now, as I remember back, and I'm not thinking now, I'm thinking back when I was watching the show in the late 90s.

[00:42:46] And I was feeling like the show became flat-footed. And they were going from planet to planet, and they were trying to find their way home. And I was thinking back, this is kind of becoming a USA version of Space 1999. The moon is off, floating separate from Earth, encountering different creatures, and all they want to do is make their way back to Earth to get the moon back to Earth. It's okay, which was silly in its own sense, but that's okay. So.

[00:43:15] Not as silly as Moonfall, though. No, no, no. We were so close. You're welcome, guys. You're welcome. We have to have a moonfall timer, a clock, or something. Yes, yes. How many times did it get mentioned? Yes. Sorry, continue. It's counter-bite, how long did it take us to bring up Moonfall into an episode? Aye, aye. And we digress. Okay, Seven. You were just, Steve, you were talking about Seven.

[00:43:45] Back to what I was talking about. So there was a point where the show kind of needed a new character. Somebody completely different, off the ship. And how do you do it? Well, you throw in somebody like herself. And it gave the writers a new character to develop. Now, granted, as we've already mentioned, you know, they picked an actress who could wear the cat suit very, very well.

[00:44:13] And that sure ended up a lot of posters being sold to a lot of teenage boys who watched that series. But that's okay, you know, because they portrayed her as smart, not just pretty. And that was what worked really well. Now, they could have put her into a standard uniform. They could have taken that away. But they chose to do this.

[00:44:38] And that's okay, because they allowed her to go past her looks and the fact that she, the way she was, and become more of an interesting character. Now, one of the reasons why is being a Borg that allowed the writers to develop her humanity as the seasons went by.

[00:45:00] And the trust had to be developed between her and the crew since she was a member of the most terrifying characters they've ever encountered. And she was portrayed as cold and unfeeling. And that allowed her character to be developed over many other characters in the series. And that's why I think that's, you know, in those few seasons that she was at the end, they really had a chance to do that.

[00:45:27] But as far as character goes, she might be the most endearing character in all of Voyager. Now, as I said, I was burnt out from watching the show for so many decades. So this was something that was out of the ordinary. And that was good. And coming out in the fourth season, she injected something out of the ordinary that was good. But then, as you could see, she lived on in Picard, where they took away the catsuit.

[00:45:58] And she became a more developed, even more developed character from Picard, right down to still one of my favorite scenes in all of Star Trek. In the second season, where she appears, she transports into the park. And the little girl looks at her and says, are you a superhero? And she just whispers. And that just says so much about her. And then, going to season three of Picard, they really developed your character.

[00:46:27] And she became even more of an interesting and likable person to the point where we are all hoping that she ends up with her own TV series. Which I'm sure would be very happy with. But I really do. So, you know, again, looks aside. And I'll say this. As an older woman, she is more beautiful. Oh, she's gorgeous. Than when she was, when she was, when she was in her 20s.

[00:46:55] You know, there's few, there's few actresses that were chosen for their young looks, like Bo Derek. But when she became, when she, 20 years later, when she was much older, she was more beautiful. And again, I think the age, you know, 20 years on her, now 30 years almost, from when she portrayed her character from one series to the next.

[00:47:20] Like, she looked better from more of a strong character. She's no counselor Deanna Troy, though, in my opinion. But whatever. I digress. Well, what I get to say. I know why. I might have said, I might have said this before, but that whole idea of, you know, her character in Picard. So, she's a few years older than me. Just a few years older than me. And looking to her character in Picard, as well as Michelle Hurd's character in Picard. Yeah. From a, as a 50-year-old woman.

[00:47:50] Like, the fact that I have these, you know, women who are in their mid-50s. Kicking butt. Like, real, like, have this serious physical role. They're not, you know, like, because 30 years ago, a lot of women like that would be playing a dowdy grandmother. Where here, these role models that I have right now are kicking butt. Yeah. Like, nobody's business. It's amazing. And I love it so, so much. And so, yes, that's one of the reasons why I love Seven.

[00:48:20] And I will also add this. You put Seven of Nine and the Doctor together in any scenes. And they steal the entire show. From the mating episode, where the Doctor ends up falling in love with her. And she shuns him. And he's crushed. To the episode we talked about when we had Phyllis Strong on. Where they juxtapose characters. Yes. And they did it so very well. Yes, that was so much fun. I'll say this.

[00:48:49] I want candy and, like, they're chocolate and peanut butter. They're just, like, one of the best duos in track. I love it. I wondered where you're going with that, Chris. Yeah. All right. Speaking of Chris. I really want Reese's Peaches. Here we go. Okay. Okay. Who's your number one pick, Chris? So this is Steve's number two pick. For me, it's the Doctor. Okay. I love the Doctor. I love so much about him. I love the fact that he has, like, the dry wit. He's sarcastic.

[00:49:19] But at the end of the day, you have the really interesting character that grows. And it gets into the really, like... I think what Star Trek does better than any other franchise where they have... Is someone a real person just because they're... Like, they did it with Data where it's like, oh, he's an android. He's a real person. They did it with the Doctor. And I just love how they explored that. And they explored the fact that he is able to grow beyond his programming. And he's able to get into things like opera. He's able to fall in love.

[00:49:49] So I just... I love watching him. And I really just love the two, like, Seven and him together. Because I think they both really helped each other. And I think he was such a great mentor towards Seven. Mm-hmm. And really helped her, you know, find her humanity. My gripe against the Doctor is the fact that in-universe, he was the one that developed her suit. Because apparently it was, like, some kind of material that was supposed to help her skin regenerate after getting all the fork implants removed. Which is fantastic.

[00:50:19] It makes him look a little creepy considering how tightly fitted it is. But... Also, at some point, is the suit working or not? You know what I mean? Right. She could have lost it after an episode or two. Exactly. So I think that's more normal clothes. But I think the Doctor is just such an amazing character. And I really just love... Like, love his growth. And so, for me, he's probably the number one reason I watch Voyager. Even though I love everybody, I want to give a shout-out to Chakotay. Because I don't think people talk about him enough. Agreed. For me, I think he is.

[00:50:49] And I've said this before on my podcast and my YouTube channel. That he's not my favorite First Officer. But he's the best First Officer. Because of how much he's able to blend his... Like, not his Maquis-ness. But he's able to help the Maquis work with Starfleet. And he's able to help kind of integrate that crew. And just, like... And also the fact that he's able to really, like, challenge Janeway. When maybe she's not doing the right thing. And he's able to have that conversation with her. So just shout-out to Chakotay. But, yeah.

[00:51:19] Favorite character Voyager of all time? The Doctor. The Doctor. 100%. Nice. I'll say this about Chakotay. If you walked into a bar and a guy gave you a lot of trouble, you'd like to have him to say, Oh, you got a problem? I'd like to introduce my friend, Chakotay, here. Yeah. The argument ends right there. You walk out of the bar without anything happening. Also, can we acknowledge one of the greatest times? Probably not to Janeway's liking. But one time he was trying to discipline one of his Maquis guys. So he, like, punched him in the face. Mm-hmm.

[00:51:47] When they were in the mess hall. I forgot about that. Ha, ha, ha. And ladies, good choice, dude. And ladies and gentlemen, our hosts for the evening. Yeah. Who has the final say? The final say. And anyone who knows me even a little bit is probably not going to be surprised by my number one pick. And it's interesting to also look at, like, how we kind of line up with each other. And I would have to say, I match Chris. Oh, it's not Troy. Okay. Okay. Okay. No, it's not Troy.

[00:52:15] I match Chris's pick. I also pick the Doctor as my number one. Mm-hmm. And, yeah, in the rewatch, like I said, it's just totally solidifying that, yes, the Doctor is my favorite character. Mm-hmm. And, again, it is because I really love robots and AI. You know, Data is usually my favorite character in Next Generation. And I say that because sometimes I have moods that I might, you know, go somewhere else, but consistently Data is. Mm-hmm. And so it's not surprising here that the Doctor would be.

[00:52:44] And it's interesting to see his growth. And it's interesting to rewatch his growth as we watch the development of real-world advanced algorithms take place. When, like, well, how did the Doctor grow? It's because he's got all this input. That he's thinking about, for lack of a better term, and using. And then that's where his output comes, which is really what we humans do, too.

[00:53:14] But it's more, it's, you know, human programmed or human deliberate when it's, you know, when you're talking about an AI like the Doctor. And it's very interesting. And when I think about the differences between, you know, what makes, you know, the Doctor different than a real-world AI system, and it is the fact that the Doctor can go out and have his own unique experiences. He's not just being fed information that other humans experience.

[00:53:41] He interacts independently with, or the same thing with Data. This is true with Data. You know, he interacts with people and the world, you know, so something can happen to him with no humans around. You know, he could be in a room and something explodes and he's dealing with it, you know. So he's an independent entity.

[00:54:03] And it allows him to process all those inputs along with all the knowledge he has to make his own, you know, to develop and make his own conclusions and take his own actions. And it is interesting to watch the added pieces, the going from, you know, please state the emergency. And he's just very limited to his world opens up and it opens up and it opens up. And so, yeah. And then, of course, you know, Robert Picardo is just awesome in playing him, just adds to the fun.

[00:54:33] And there's so many, and I agree with what, you know, Chris said about the pairing of Seven and the Doctor. Yeah, yeah. Because you kind of have them helping each other. They're both kind of on a similar journey, you know, kind of in some ways finding their humanity-ish. And it's just fun, you know, for them. So, yeah. So, the Doctor. Plus, I invite any of our listeners to go back and listen to our interview with Robert. Right. It was a pleasure having him on our show.

[00:55:02] And we just got to see just how he is who he is, you know. It's almost like John Billingsley is John Billingsley, regardless. And whatever role he plays, he's always John Billingsley. And I think that's the same thing about Robert Picardo. So, he is Robert Picardo, and that always shines through whatever role he's playing. I think that's the wonderful thing about him.

[00:55:27] And it's funny that you go back and mention that we interviewed Robert Picardo because, you know, when I was struggling with, well, what is my third choice? My number one kind of honorable mention there, the person I was struggling with was Tuvok. Oh, really? Yeah. Which we haven't mentioned at all this evening. No, right, no. And I feel bad because Tim Russ was, you know, we had Tim Russ on the show, too.

[00:55:48] No, and that's, I really do love the development of the Vulcan character and that they were able to go beyond. Because up until that point, this is before we knew T'Pol. So, up until this point, you know, our dominating, like, knowledge of Vulcans is Spock and Sarek. Mm-hmm. Period.

[00:56:14] You know, and so we get a very monolithic, one-sided view of these are Vulcans. Mm-hmm. And so now here we have Tuvok, and it actually helps us develop the Vulcan culture a bit. And I really enjoy, I really enjoy the Vulcan world building that happened there. And that's actually one of my favorite aspects of Enterprise, too, with using T'Pol to develop, again, even further the Vulcan culture. Right, right, right. I will say, Tuvok made my honorable mentions.

[00:56:44] Yeah. And it was hard not to put him on my top three. Mm-hmm. Because I went by two criteria. With Harry and Kim, it was originally what characters resonated with me. Janeway is the Brian today as you're hearing him come through the microphone, you know? Yeah. Because we're allowed to change our minds. Right. But Tuvok is a definite honorable mention for me. Mm-hmm.

[00:57:09] I'm a little surprised, Adina, that B'Elanna didn't make it into your top three. I know it probably was a little difficult. But she was also like, especially as I'm re-watching even just the first few episodes, like, they really, they did way more character development on this show than I really remembered. Especially for her being a Klingon. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:33] And like, so I will say, I do have a little bit of a gripe with Voyager because I feel like they kind of plugged in some of the Star Trek formulas with characters. Mm-hmm. There is definitely the Doctor being the Data character. The Lana kind of being like Worf in a sense, not exactly the same. There's a lot of nuances there.

[00:58:10] Mm-hmm. And all of the actors did such a super job of making these characters their own. They are iconic now. Mm-hmm. They are beloved. Mm-hmm. And, you know, there's a ton of people that Voyager is their Star Trek. Mm-hmm. Yes. And that's pretty cool. So my other honorable mentions are B'Elanna Taurus. Mm-hmm. So I want to say something about B'Elanna. Yeah, go ahead. Before you move off of her.

[00:58:35] And kind of, this is actually one of the most disappointing parts of my Voyager rewatch, I'll be honest, is that in rewatching it, and actually B'Elanna is one of the reasons I'm rewatching it. Because I'm actually, in addition to this whole 30th anniversary watching Voyager, I might be working on writing some stuff about engineering and engineering a Starfleet point of view. And so I'm paying attention to her as an engineer.

[00:59:05] Mm-hmm. And I'm not happy with what I'm seeing. I'm seeing, like, everyone else do engineering. And, yes, she's doing two, but it's not, like, I guess I was expecting her to be more Geordi LaForge-like. And it's not happening. I mean, there's a lot of development with her, with her Klingon side, and a lot of that stuff. But, and all the B'Elanna-centric episodes have to do with her. Right. I was hoping for more engineering. Yeah. If that makes sense.

[00:59:35] But I'll say one thing. The series gave her a chance to develop her skills, and she's become a heck of a director. Oh, yeah. And she has become a heck of an actress in other roles. Yes. Including, including Star Wars role, you know? And don't get me wrong. Yeah. I like how she's played. I like, you know, Roxanne Dawson. I like how, I like the character. I'm just disappointed that when I went back to specifically look at her as an engineering character. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:05] And I was kind of looking more for a Geordi LaForge or even a Miles O'Brien, and that's the part I'm not getting, which to me is a writing thing. Mm-hmm. And even then, you know, they did a good job of developing her as a person, but that's not what I currently, that's not what I want right now. Yeah. What Star Wars role are we talking about? Didn't she, wasn't she in... No. That wasn't her? No. I'm confusing her when they're the actress. Yes. Sorry about that. But she's an amazing director.

[01:00:34] Are you thinking of Ahsoka? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's Rosario. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry. I mistake the two. No, but she's... Strike what I said, folks. But she's an amazing director to include. She's directed episodes of Foundation. Yeah. Okay. I think she directed some House of Cards, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's up there. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. All over the place. So, Lana Torres, Barkley, of course, one of my all-time favorites. Star Trek characters.

[01:01:03] Loved that actor in the A-Team, too. I'm not going to lie. I just like the A-Team connection. And I'm going to say Neelix. Yeah. And I just have to say, just that opening episode when he's able to bathe in hot water and he's singing very loudly and bombastically. Just hysterical. I laughed all.

[01:01:33] I did not remember that in the opening episode of Voyager. And so Neelix, he had some good humor. And he was definitely the comedic guy, but also the guy everybody loved and trusted. And, you know, and he had a kind of a chip on his shoulder. He had to work hard to fit in and prove himself. And I hated the... I really never became a fan of the makeup.

[01:02:01] For me, it just was kind of weird. But Ethan Phillips, man, he's the dude. He's the man in different ways, just like Robert Picardo is. And Tim Ross and all those guys. First Star Trek convention I went to, he was on stage. And literally, I couldn't stop laughing. The man was so funny, so entertaining. So, yeah. Yeah. And again, I was kind of burnt out from the series.

[01:02:29] So when I saw him without makeup and just being who he was, I went, wait a minute. That's the same guy? This is hilarious. Vigorous, you know? But again, you know, as I said, I have to go through now and do what you've requested, Dina. I also have one more. Stop re-watching it. Yeah. I do have one more honorable mention for the show, and that's Counselor Deanna Troy. No. Is well. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[01:02:59] The guest starring role of Porthos when he appeared on Voyager was just delightful to see a little beagle on the... No, that happened. ...rappening things because you're funny. Steve-o. Okay. I think there, we're going to wrap it up from here. Okay. Wrap up our episode. You know, I'm going to say, I am a little surprised. You know, I wasn't sure going into this, you know, what to expect. Were we going to, like, be close to the same page or completely on opposite ends?

[01:03:26] It's really interesting that, you know, so me and Chris had identical lists. Steve, we were one off. You know, you were one off from me, one off from Chris. I was the weird one. And Brian, you were the weird one. No, but that's good. I mean, like, again, I had no idea what to expect. Right. Right. And this is really interesting. And so listeners, again, you know, I want to know what you thought. What did, you know, who's your absolute favorite character? At least right now from Voyager. You know, whatever you tell us now, 10 years from now does not have to be the same.

[01:03:55] You're allowed to change your mind. So send us an email at thebigscifipodcast at gmail.com or find us on our Facebook grouper page and let us know what you think. And just, of course, thank you for listening. We're so happy that you're here. We appreciate you very much. Now, time flies. And before we know it, Trek Long Island 3 is going to be here. So grab your tickets if you haven't.

[01:04:20] And at Trek Long Island, make sure you stop by our table and say hi to us at that awesome convention that's going to happen May 30th through June 1st in Huffag, New York. Of course, be kind to everyone because it costs nothing. Until next time on The Big Sci-Fi Podcast, live long and prosper. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of The Big Sci-Fi Podcast. If you're having fun and enjoying the podcast, we ask that you would share the love by liking,

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