For All Mankind

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: This is the BIG Sci-Fi Podcast, the biggest Sci-Fi podcast in the galaxy. A proud part of the Trek Geeks Podcast Network

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Season 6 was a blast

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But season 7 is going to be even more fun as we continue to go where no podcast has gone before

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Deep into the Sci-Fi universe

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Join Adina Bryan, Chris and Steve as they explore television, film and literature for the best Sci-Fi has to offer

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Even if you're not a Sci-Fi fan, you'll love the banter and the epic tangents as these four friends talk about what they love

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_01]: We invite you to sit back and relax because the journey is just beginning on this season of The BIG Sci-Fi Podcast

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_04]: What if

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Are two words that begin a sentence that always ends with a question mark such as

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_04]: What if America lost the revolutionary war against the British?

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_04]: What if Einstein's theory of relativity did not work out?

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_04]: What if Hitler was assassinated before the start of World War two and what if

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Abraham Lincoln or JFK were never assassinated?

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_04]: These are all of course

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Hypothetical questions which brings us to the TV series

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_04]: We are here to talk about with two of the people that have been the technical directors for all four seasons of the upcoming

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_04]: fifth season of

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_04]: For all mankind Mike and Denise Okuda

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_04]: For all mankind might be the greatest. What if TV series as it opens with two simple questions?

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_04]: What if the USSR landed first on the moon and

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_04]: What if NASA was allowed to progress in such a way as to colonize both the moon and Mars?

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Today we are here to interview the people who have made this series

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_04]: grounded in reality and

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_04]: Fiction all at the same time

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_04]: Mike and Denise thank you again for allowing us the big sci-fi podcast the honor of

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_04]: interviewing you on this groundbreaking TV series and to say hello to these two greats

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Might I use the method used on the series?

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Hi Bob

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_04]: There you go

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_04]: and

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_04]: With us today

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_04]: We would to interview Mike and Denise we have the best team of podcasters

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_04]: The world is ever known and that is not hypothetical. They are a Dina hi Bob Chris

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Hi Bob, and I'm Steve. Hi Bob

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_04]: However, the fourth member of our crew is Brian and he is off being a good dad and a good coach

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_04]: So without further ado, let's dive into the nuts and bolts of for all mankind

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_04]: But before we begin let me warn you we are going to be spoilering the heck out of the series

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_04]: so

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_04]: You have not watched it yet

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_04]: You have been warned or you can go and watch all 40 episodes and then come back to this podcast interview

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll wait for you. So to begin with and the first question I'm gonna ask is

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_04]: How did you get involved in for all mankind in the first place since you've been there at the beginning?

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_03]: we worked with a

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_03]: For all mankind series creator Ron Ronald D. Moore

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Back when he was a staff writer and then later a producer on Star Trek the next generation and

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Star Trek D space nine

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: And then Ron of course went off to have a very successful career doing such shows as as as

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Galactica and quite an impressive slate of material

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Originally I had heard about

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: The series through a job I had at the art director's guilt

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: We would get information on series and development and I came home and I said hey Mike

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: This sounds like it's ready made for us. I'll send our resumes into the art department. So we did so

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: We got a very nice letter back that basically said we're all staffed up

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Dan Bishop the production designer and you may know that name from many projects

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But specifically madman, which is one of our favorites

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_02]: He's a brilliant production designer

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, so I went oh well, you know, we weren't fast enough or something and then we did hear from

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Ron and

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Asked us if he would like to come on and be technical consultants and also Steve Oster was working as a line producer

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_03]: It was coexec coexec. Yeah

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, we had worked with Steve on Star Trek deep space night. So we knew Steve

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_02]: They both knew us so that's kind of how it started and of course, it's very different than what we usually do

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: We usually work in the art department, but our job is technical consultants and

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's kind of how we got started

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Interesting interesting. So it was kind of like you know homecoming to work with Ron on this series

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_04]: But did they you know

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Homecoming was a very good word

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_03]: We've been continuously working but mostly we work from our home office even before the pandemic

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_03]: so

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_03]: when Steve invited us down to Sony Pictures to

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: To see this is before we started shooting for a season to see the sets in progress

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: We stepped onto the soundstage and suddenly there's this distinctive smell

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_03]: This the smell of cut wood and of sawdust and of and of machinery and of ozone from from electrical circuits and

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_03]: And and drying paint and it just suddenly hit us and and yes

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_03]: We were at in that instant back home. Yeah, not on a starship but on a filming soundstage and I

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_03]: We both had forgotten. Oh what that felt like very visceral

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Really kind of funny that you mentioned smells of wood and ozone because if we were in an actual aerospace

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Facility and we smelled any of those there should be some alarms going on

[00:06:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Since the

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_03]: A few about ten years or however many years ago

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_03]: There were a bunch of new environmental protection has put in place

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So that smell has become a lot more benign

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It used to be really quite nasty because we used to use all kinds of lacquers and things which were not good for the environment

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And certainly not good for the people at work on the stage now

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_04]: It's it's kind of like that new car smell just makes you feel like okay. This is right, you know Chris any questions, right?

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_05]: so what

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_05]: What is your day-to-day like when you're?

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Just working on it on a given season

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Again, we mostly work from our home office. They they send us scripts

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Once we start shooting this they send us rockets of episodes and we review them and make comment and

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: That's really the bulk of our job

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: But the the fun part is when they're in control rooms and mission control and spaceships

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: We go down and hang out for for that day at

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_03]: at Sony Pictures and so in

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Television production to something called video village that is now that everything is digital

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_03]: You can have videos or computer screens where you can actually see what the camera sees

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So you have you have the the screens that show what the cameras see and

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_03]: Immediately in front of that is the director and the script supervisor. I mean immediately behind that

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Are writers and producers and another important people and behind them our chairs for less important people

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_03]: but still important and and that's that's a reset and

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Our job is to stare intently at the screen and say well actually she should be hitting that button or

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, no that actually would be flying that way or something like that and then frequently the director or one of the cast members will say

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Is this how this works and our job is to have looked it up in events

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And we are also also on set like during rehearsal and we'll work with the actors on

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, which button should you push or pronounce the pronunciation of words or questions about content?

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Although our cast down through the seasons

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: They're an amazing group of talented people and they're very smart. So they will think of questions that

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't usually hear and that it just very much impresses us

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_02]: um

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's it's very different and you know, we're pretty busy at home

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it kind of just depends where we are in the production cycle

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: But you know props will send us questions and ask for us to

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_02]: You know offer some papers that have to be on somebody's desk or

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Diagrams that have to be on a white board or you know that type of thing and that happens a lot too

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_00]: So what I find really interesting about this show is

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_00]: unlike many shows which are either

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Based on reality or fictionalized you've got this hybrid here that starts off at a time period

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: That was was real and starting off in the the mid to late 60s

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And then with that point of departure

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's like an really from my point of view an acceleration of the timeline

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Like we're looking at the end of season four. We're kind of looking at 20 years ago

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But almost with a modern eye

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_00]: You know when we look at the mission control center and so what was is that like to merge?

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: the real and

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of projected fiction but a protect projected fiction that is also still kind of I guess real

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_03]: That's uh, that's an extremely good point

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: That's an it's a huge part of the show

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's a real tribute to our art department to our our first production

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Designer dan bishop and our present set our production designer set read

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And their

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_03]: assignment was to start the show off with essentially museum quality

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_03]: replicas of the

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Of the real mission control center of the real Apollo spacecraft

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_03]: But then fairly quickly if you look through like about halfway through the first season even though they're in

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_03]: an authentic Apollo spacecraft start looking at the control panels. You'll see oh the

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_03]: The the Apollo guidance computer has been replaced by a small crt screen and there and there's uh, and there's a

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_03]: DOS ish

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_03]: graphic user interface that they that they use to fly the ship

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_03]: again our people introduced

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_03]: CRTs and

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_03]: computers into mission control

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_03]: Sooner than it was in the real mission control

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_03]: But as the show progresses

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It starts to

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_03]: veer into more advanced technologies fairly quickly and

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Is almost science it's science fiction in that this is stuff that hasn't happened yet

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_03]: But as to the greatest degree possible it wants to be grounded in real science. So there will be

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_03]: a

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of propulsion this ship is using

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_03]: So this has this consequence on on the

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_03]: On the countdown before you have an engine burden

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's that that's something we do a lot of research in because we're we're not aerospace engineers. We

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, they brought us in because we we have a sense of the context of this stuff

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_03]: but

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_03]: You all you always have to do research

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Right and and i'll say and for our listeners who might not

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Know I do work in the aerospace industry. Um, I am an engineer and a lot of my career was has been in

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: command and control centers, uh, the software that folks use to control satellites

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the kind of software that I spent a lot of my career working on and responsible for

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So I spent a lot of time in

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Some nasa control centers and some of our commercial, you know private control centers as well

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And so from that point of view this show completely blows my mind on how everything about it is so believable

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Like in that what if had things been a little accelerated this this all makes sense

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_03]: It's eerie and it's fun. I got it. I got it. I got it. That's great. That's great

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you mentioned that you get the scripts

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_04]: And then you review them and you make

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_04]: recommendations and notations

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Were were all

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_04]: 10 scripts for seasons one or two or three or four already

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Created when they went to you and that you reviewed them and when you did and as you read them you went what?

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Ted Kennedy's president of the united states how'd that happen?

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_04]: You know did these things kind of surprise you as you were reading them and

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Evolving in front of you as it did for us the viewer when the when the episodes were more done and we were able to see them

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_03]: They always surprised and delight us and yes, we always love the uh, oh

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_03]: John Lennon is still performing. Yeah, that was a good one. Yeah, uh-huh and especially the way that they'll

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_03]: in the first season

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_03]: there was a

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_03]: because

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Apollo 11 did not land

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_03]: as

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_03]: as land

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Right the Kennedy family did not have

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_03]: A celebrate a party that they had planned to watch the moon landing as a result

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, Kennedy never went to to chap a critic as a result

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, marriage. Oh, co peck co peckney didn't die as a result

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Kennedy's political career wasn't ruined as a result

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Kennedy became president

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Ted Kennedy became president right right

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that that that they figured these things out on the

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_03]: First day of production of the second season

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_03]: We were sitting with uh, Ron Warren in mission control

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and admiring all the space shuttle mission patches

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And I noticed that the uh

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_03]: The challenger mission patch was it was up on the wall

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And I and I mentioned to him, but you know, there's a tradition in NASA that

[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, that a mission patch doesn't go up on the wall until this ship comes back

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And the and the crew is safe

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_03]: So

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Is this a mistake or did challenger not happen in this timeline?

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And Ron kind of looks at us and grins and says, okay

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_03]: So here's what happened. They figured out the oving problem

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_03]: And then for reasons that he he wasn't going to tell us at that at that time

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_03]: uh

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_03]: the

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_03]: The

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Challenger was uh, challenge was fine

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_03]: But this sets up a cascade of events which uh, I don't know how much spoiler you want to get into but that uh,

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_04]: We've warned we've warned our our listeners. Yeah, everybody knows for shame if they haven't watched all 40 episodes. Okay for shame. Go ahead

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Haven't seen the show

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Stop now and

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Watch it

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_03]: It's much better

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_03]: For for our directors and cast and writers to tell you then then it is what we're telling you

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_03]: But

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Ron yeah, yeah, Ron Ron told reveal to us that the the oving problem was something that uh, that ultimately turns uh,

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, margo

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Who is uh, who was he was our favorite character favorite character into

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't I don't recall the word you can use but essentially as

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_03]: A silviate asset and that has huge implications later on

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_04]: But I did like the fact that the that that her that she did this because she didn't want to see other people die

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_04]: She didn't want to see russian astronauts

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Have a problem. So she wanted to assist in some way

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of this show is a is very consciously about doing the

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Doing the wrong thing for all the right reasons. Yeah. Oh, I love that stuff. Yeah

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_03]: so

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_03]: At the very beginning they they set up uh, margo's relationship with werner von bergen

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Who's on one hand?

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_03]: an amazing engineer and a hero of the space program and someone that that I looked up to as a kid

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And then margo as we did discovered

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_03]: In his career he did some awful things. He was part of

[00:17:16] Just

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_03]: unspeakable horrors

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_03]: How do you reconcile that?

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And margo has to fight that then and then she later of course has to fight it with the obering issue

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we're just like everyone else who likes the show. I mean when we get a script

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: We know we're going to be learning things. We don't know what we're going to be learning yet

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But we read in anticipation. Oh my god. What's happening to so-and-so and the

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_02]: When we got the script which was entitled brazil

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Where

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Sergei is assassinated. Yes

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_02]: that

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Just

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Blew our minds and we're like yep. Oh my god

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course we felt

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Terrible because margo can seem to never have happiness

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and um

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: a

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And there was this little tiny glimmer of hope that they could go to brazil together and

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And continue their life together and work in a space program and

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Limmer of hope and then it just

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Out of left field

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it jumped off the page and then when you watch the episode you just think he's enjoying the burger and

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, even though when he was gonna happen it still blew us away on scale. It was just like oh my god

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, oh I was gonna say so when you're reading a script and you're reading something like that

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_05]: How long does it take you to read the script?

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Process it and then go back and be like okay now we have to actually be analytical

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_05]: We now that we've dealt with this major reveal or this horrible thing that just happened

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You usually have to read something several times

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_03]: because you process different things and

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It's

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Very common you read through something and you go okay. That's uh, these are the notes. I'm gonna make and you went

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Holy crap this this very minor thing here

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Ripples backwards. So we have to make sure that every time they did this

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_03]: We we note that they need to do that. Mm-hmm

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: We worked on a project called the Star Trek encyclopedia and

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_03]: We like to say that these things are incredibly obvious

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_03]: This is in hindsight

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And it takes a while to get to the point where where you can see the incredibly obvious

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you might see the incredibly obvious that I missed

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_03]: But I will have seen things that you haven't missed and our job

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Is to try to catch as many of the things that

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_03]: All four of us all five of us would have would have caught

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And and and you're never perfect, but you do your best

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the thing is that for the first time that we read a script or the first time we get a rough cut

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_02]: We watch it as a watch or read it as an entertainment. We don't

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You have different portions different hats that you put on and the first hat I think is entertainment. We're reading it

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: We're

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we like the characters are trying to figure out what's going to happen

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: We read it as an entertainment. We watch a rough cut as entertainment

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we go okay kind of assimilate it and then we go back with a different hat on

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And and and do our job and

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But you go over several times

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not just a one time or a two time read

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'll say this that you know, you mentioned about Sergei

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_04]: The show is brave enough to allow some of our favorite characters

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_04]: Lives to be lost

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_04]: My gosh the story and

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Here's the interesting thing

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Gordo

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Drove me crazy as a character

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_04]: alcoholic

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_04]: overweight

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_04]: just

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_04]: A failure his wife Tracy

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, she was the the original

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_04]: um

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know instagram girl where she was you know so popular

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_04]: but then

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Their lives ended with such a noble way

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_04]: That when you see them together in the airlock and they're holding each other and their lives and

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry getting emotional again

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_04]: It

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_04]: It was so sad

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_04]: It really was and what I give them credit for that

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_00]: What is sadder then is that they let the the conspiracy theory

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: There there are the folks that don't believe it just like today

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_00]: There are folks out there that question the actual moon landing and why people get upset and possibly punch

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_00]: People who question the moon landing it's a thing they because I was so angry on behalf of them when

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_00]: They have the characters that are like, oh that didn't really happen the way they said they're not telling us what happened

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And i'm like, oh my god. I saw it with my own eye

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and in the case of for all mankind one of those uh conspiracy theorists was an actual astronaut who had been to the moon

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Which which made me even crazier

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Which makes it even harder for us because we know

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_02]: We know the actors. I mean there are co-workers and so we know those people

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Not just the character. We love the characters, but we know them as people and to think that they're not going to be with us anymore

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Was heartbreaking. You know, we will after we read this I mean lots of

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Characters that bad things have happened

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Um and the end of season four

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_02]: We were worried that uh chris

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Who plays daniel?

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_02]: um was going to be killed because that's kind of what they do and um

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we were very relieved that uh, she wasn't killed but yeah

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to scream so

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah when she got shot it was no no it's kind of like

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like char. It's like shan season three of picard

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, don't we like him now. Don't let anything happen to him

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, dany pool is absolutely hand down my favorite character followed by margo

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And then after that it's hard. It's uh, it's hard, but yeah

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_00]: My gosh, i'm still really so in in preparing for this discussion today

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I actually just finished that last episode last night. So it's still all very raw and fresh

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, how does how does it affect you when you go to sleep because I was watching a show yesterday too

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Where i'm just like a character died and i'm like, okay. Yep

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_05]: That's ruined

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I tend to try I try not to watch emotionally charged things right before bed

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_00]: But I really wanted to finish that series and so in the last few days

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And again, you know, so folks who haven't seen it again

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_00]: We say watch it

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do believe that shows that come out weekly like on apple

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_00]: They really aren't meant to be binged. I feel like there's a reason they're giving us a week to process before they

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: You know hit us with the next thing and the next thing but

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm sorry. I I I disagree

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I like watching as a binge because like you went the end

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Episode ends you know, no, no. Okay. What happens? I gotta find out

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So you go boom right this next episode which was great

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_04]: So I am I appreciated the ability to binge watch it. I would have gone crazy wondering

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh god, I gotta wait till next week to find out what happened

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_04]: But that's how it used to be when we were kids growing up. You didn't get to binge watch anything

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Well for us even though they plot out

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_03]: in broad strokes

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: The what's gonna happen in a season

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_03]: We get they they don't write them simultaneously

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And so we we have them

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Some time out from production, but we do get them sequentially and and and and we're like oh

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Really? Well, what's gonna happen?

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's really hard

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to add. I think it's really hard

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_02]: In today's streaming world of only 10 episodes

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, there are some shows that you know if they're picked up

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_02]: They don't you don't see them again for a year and a half or two years

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I know madman was like that and it's like I forget what happened almost, you know, so

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_02]: That's hard. I think that's really hard these days and we were working on track

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: We were doing 26 to 22 episodes

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And you just and you had a pattern, you know, you wrap around

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: April you if you're picked up you come back, you know about september blah blah blah

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But there isn't that

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Schedule anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Do they do you get in in the role that you have on the show?

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you get any insight into the broad strokes of like how far they're gonna take a season?

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Since especially since they're they're jumping, you know decades like

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00]: A decade could happen in a season or in between seasons. Do you get

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Some ahead before seeing the scripts kind of know where they're going

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_03]: In in generalities, yes

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_03]: But you always want

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_03]: The writers to have the the option of going

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, this is really interesting. This is more impactful

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_03]: They they need to be able to change course

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And tweak and it's actually fairly common even though, you know, where you're going the way you get there

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh is often ends up being much more

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Dramatically satisfying than than what the original plan was and I can't remember a specific character

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But I remember one of the writer producers saying

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, well, we weren't going to keep this character around but she he was so good

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Um that we we did we just kept them around. I can't remember

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Specifically they were talking about but it could have been anyone

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're also good

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Well some some characters are meant to

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: To chop ahead decade and others aren't but um

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_04]: And the the other thing about the show was there were when they wanted to they injected great humor

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_04]: And my favorite scene that brings me maybe laugh out loud

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_04]: was when

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_04]: devs crew

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Danny's crew the russian crews are all rushing to mars

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're all jockeying for a position like it's a nascar race and then dany says

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_04]: Hoist the mizzen maths and out pops up the solar sail and they're playing the music from hyra to the caribbean

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And that just got me laughing. I'm going

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_04]: How did he get clearance from disney from that especially apple tv to be able to play that piece of music because it was

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_04]: absolutely

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Perfect for the moment. It was great and then they follow up with a group. Yeah

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a great moment and yeah, I'm I'm sure they had to move heaven and earth to make an heaven

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_03]: But I they knew it was going to be a great moment and it obviously was

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_03]: um

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And then of course you have tragedy it follows up when the russian craft has problems and blah blah

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_04]: You know so they they juxtapose these things but that's the beauty. I think of this show is that

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_04]: you get so

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_04]: You get so

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Locked in with these characters in the storyline that it becomes so they become so as you said so real

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_04]: That when something happens to them, you don't want something to happen to them or when they succeed

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_04]: You're so happy to see them

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03]: You know do what they do and it's it's interesting it as the show has progressed

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_03]: That viewpoint character that the person you identify with

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes it shifts and becomes this person for a season then it becomes that person

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_03]: And that process you

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_03]: well

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, in example like like dev

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, he's the entrepreneur. He's the elon musk character of the story if you want if i'm right or wrong about that

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_04]: But ultimately his dream is to make mars

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_04]: A suitable colony and in the last season

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean literally they they have a mutiny they do whatever they can

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_04]: to make mars

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Succeed and that last shot at the end with dev in his space suit on the mars surface looking out

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_04]: And when i'm watching that and thinking about everything everyone did to make the mars colony special or survive

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_04]: It got me to thinking about

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_04]: A book by a certain guy by the name of ray bradbury the martian chronicles

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_04]: And if you will give me a moment of levity or not

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Freedom i'd like to read everyone if they haven't known about this book from the last page on the book where it says

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I've always wanted to see a martian said michael

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Where are they dad?

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_04]: You promised

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_04]: They are here said dad

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_04]: And he shifted michael on his shoulders and pointed straight down and the martians were there

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Timothy began to shiver

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_04]: The martians were there in the canal

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Reflected in the water timothy and michael and robert and mom and dad

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_04]: The martians stared back at them for a long long silent time from the rippling water and I kept thinking

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_04]: They wanted to this is their home and they would do anything to make it work including

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Stealing an asteroid so that they could make their colony work

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I thought that that was

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_04]: Just so well done

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_04]: The to be able to do that

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_04]: That it's the commitment of the show

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And we were there

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_03]: We didn't actually work on that scene, but we were literally walked through the set when when they shot that

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_03]: that scene with

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_03]: With devon the martian surface when they were shooting the the big pullback shot

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I gotta say I thought of that moment in the martian chronicles as well

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it just it just made me and I hadn't read this book and I mean this book is

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Had this for 50 years when I was you know got it when I was in the science fiction book club

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And it's always stuck with me, but that

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_04]: That was like the beauty of I think if if I don't know if if there was not going to be a season five

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank goodness there will be that they walked away on a very very high note

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, hopefully there'll be a season five and six seven well, there will be a five

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Working on it

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but but then of course that season four ends in night

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_04]: 2012

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And they usually hop ahead 20 10 years to the next

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Season, so we're gonna literally be at 2022 or something of that. We're right on top of each other

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're speculating but there's no reason that they can't keep going into the future because again technologically they've surpassed where we are in 2024

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously and so it will be interesting to see what they continue with especially because again in real world technology

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_00]: We are we are so far away

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_00]: From even having what they had as a base at you know, shackleton crater in the 70s

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_00]: We are currently today so far away from that. So I'm really excited to see

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_00]: What they're gonna continue to do

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but we that we that saw Apollo

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and lived through Apollo

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, we had hoped that when we were done with that series we would move on to the next

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And because of the storyline in for all mankind that the russian scott that first it gave it it gave america

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: the

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Will to go forward and continue on how we would have liked it to happen

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: We expected it

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: accepted it to happen

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_02]: so um, and it didn't and it's

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: depressing and

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So forth but it's reality right now

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: uh

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_02]: For all mankind

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_02]: We get to kind of vicariously live that future

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: That's true

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead chris as soon as does it make it slightly depressing

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Looking at you're watching the show and then you see how it's progressing and then we're looking at our reality

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_05]: It's gonna like oh, that's that's where we could have been if things had been a little bit different

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it does it is a little bit little a little bit depressing but uh to all of us who are space geeks

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's kind of the baseline. We should

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_03]: We should have been further on we should be trying harder. We should be

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, uh, funding these things better and we should have been

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_03]: so

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_03]: What for all mankind does is it?

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_03]: It it presents it and

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_03]: An aspirational goal. This is what we could do we haven't but we can

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And so that's the lens through which we hope

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh people will see it

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_03]: That we can do these things and we should do these things and this is why

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, and I will say that I've been

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Continuously depressed most of my career because we are not

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Further along than than we are and so I do work on some

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Lunar related. I'll say lunar adjacent things right now

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_00]: That's all I can say but I watch the industry very carefully and have been obviously for years because this is this is my career

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I really thought we'd be

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Doing more on the moon by now in 2024

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I recognize when I got into this career. I had my first aerospace job in 1993

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I recognize we were

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Far away at that point in time, but I thought we'd be a little little closer

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But if anyone pays attention to the news and I would say specifically space news.com

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You can follow along what's happening what nasa funds what isa funds and what else is happening in the world

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty closely and it's it's going to be an interesting decade coming up

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_00]: as there are more more countries have landed on the moon last year or two and

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Are gonna continue to send landers and things as here

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Our funding gets cut for stuff

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's going to be a very interesting decade going forward and that's but yes, I'm consistently depressed about

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_00]: I write books about it instead

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I I think those pesky north koreans are going to beat us all to the mars anyway

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that's unlikely. But there's another another country on that side of the planet that

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking like they will

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, so much

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I followed I follow this stuff. Yeah space news.com and you can see what's what's happening

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's interesting that it does not spur the same kind of response

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00]: That it spurred back in the 60s because that there is an adversary that is trying to get to the moon

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And really trying and not cutting their funding and here we are

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But this is the world we live in and we can live vicariously through

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay. Yeah, exactly

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_04]: That that's a good question in that

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_04]: When they when they're creating the scripts and the storylines for this mic and denise

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_04]: This is a future in the past

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And how do you go about trying to give that?

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Fictional continuity that you talked about that that as the progression goes

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_04]: How do you stand back and going? Well, this hasn't happened yet, but

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_04]: This is how it should be if it did happen. How do you how do you square that up with the

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_04]: writers and the production team?

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_03]: It all starts with the with the scripts the the the writers know what what they want to happen

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_03]: One of the fun things we get to do is let's say you have a script that's set in the apollo era

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_03]: We know how technology has progressed in the real world. We know what

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_03]: We know what happened over the next few decades

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So wherever it's appropriate, we will

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_03]: We end and they they art department and they

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_03]: And visual effects and all those people will

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Will push it and one

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_03]: tiny

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Bit I don't think I don't think it was even actually on screen

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_03]: is

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_03]: the

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_03]: The apollo guidance computers software package each each release of the software had a name like

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Luminary and I'm sorry. I'm blanking on the other names

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_03]: but if you but on the

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_03]: apollo 15 guidance computer maybe was

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_03]: One of those the advanced limb that had the

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_03]: CRT diskey

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_03]: If you look at it when they blew up the computer, it's the the software name is supernova

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is was

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Just tiny effect. Okay. They they went beyond what

[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Margaret Hamilton and all those people did

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_03]: And and and just knowing what will come what came in the real world and being able to pull and

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_03]: And put things in is is really fun

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Chris any questions?

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I I have some questions for near the end because I've got to bring up a car season three of course, but

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, we can save that

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_05]: For a little bit near the end

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's understandable. I mean you're involved in that was so spectacular and we chatted about that

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_04]: The prior time we had you on on the show, which we really she appreciated that and that's when you

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Really first told us about this series and how I think it was at that point. It was in third season production

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it was just starting or we just we I think I like yeah, I think maybe we were a couple of episodes in

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_05]: At that point. Yeah, and we didn't have the enterprise reveal

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is like one of the greatest moments of the fandom for me. Just remember that seeing the d come back

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_03]: Ah was that that was that was for us too. That was surprisingly emotional

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we we grew up with the original Star Trek and so to us that that's our happy place

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:39:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm certainly very proud to have worked the next generation and uh, and I'm thrilled that that people love it, but it's

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_03]: it's different and

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_03]: When we stepped onto that completed stage it was uh, I hadn't realized

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_03]: What an impact it would have

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean we're we're so so fortunate

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, thanks to terry metallis

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_02]: um that

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: that happened

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_02]: there were so many factors that

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_02]: fought against it and

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It was

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of work

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And expensive and the only shot on that set for two days

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Two days wow, so it's no minor miracle

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That it happened at all

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of hard work. What do you mean fought? Who fought like what do you mean fought against it?

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_02]: There are people against it. Yeah, not individuals like production schedule and bunny and so

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, it's not not individuals but just the nature of production can we afford to do this?

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, whenever you have a good idea

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_03]: There there are always schedule and budget reasons why you shouldn't do it

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_03]: On Star Trek next generation

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_03]: We had an episode where we brought back uh, uh, jimmy doing as a in a guest spot, right? Yeah, and he had one

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_03]: There was yeah, yes. There was a scene on the on the holodeck and

[00:41:04] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, uh

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone just wanted that moment

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_03]: But rebuilding even that small piece of the bridge was uh, was really quite expensive and their fallback play position

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_03]: if if we couldn't figure out how to do it was they were going to uncrate

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_03]: The enterprise a bridge from the previous Star Trek movie

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_03]: and they were going to revisit that ship and

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_03]: We all said well, yeah, that's a nice ship, but it's not going to have anywhere near the emotional impact

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And fortunately our production designer Richard James figured out a way, you know

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_03]: All we really need is a tiny tiny piece of this set and then uh, the rest of it can be can be done with visual effects

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_03]: And that carried the day

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And so it wasn't anyone

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't a bad person saying you can't do that

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: No, that makes that make sense. That makes sense

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Because it's just it's honestly

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's just everything

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Yes, like as a viewer it's just one of those things I never expected and I'm like just the fact that it's happened

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, I can't believe we live in a world where the enterprise d came back. It's just unbelievable

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, it's really it's really interesting. Mike and I have worked on Star Trek

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, Michael's worked on Star Trek longer than anybody but gene roddenberry and we've been working

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Consistently on Star Trek if it wasn't in production because everything went to canada it except for bachard

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, we've been working for cds home video and then now the roddenberry archive and so forth

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_02]: We never have stopped working on star trek and we say all the time. Okay. That was a fun ride

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02]: um, but that this is probably it. This is probably the last

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_02]: uh project we'll do and um

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You just don't know what tomorrow will bring

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_03]: That's true. Yeah, thanks. Thanks. Thanks to thanks to star trek and shows like for all mankind. We've been

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_03]: astonishingly lucky

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Getting to work literally on the bridge of the enterprise getting to work literally in

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_03]: In mission and mission control

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Getting to work literally helping to fly an apollo spaceship

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Um

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_03]: In you can't make these things. Yeah, you can't make these things up and it's even better than that

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_03]: If you if you recall that there's a there's a moment where um in the first season where the uh

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Where apollo 11 is landing and there was a yes

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_03]: And the lunar module was on these uh on this gimbled platform. So it literally did this

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and there was a moment where

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_03]: The they didn't have enough special effects technicians on on set

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And they needed a light to come on on the control panel

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And the light to control the switch to control that light was on the outside of the set right there

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_03]: So they drafted denise and so she's hanging onto the outside of the lunar module

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Gimbal that's moving

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_03]: She at the moment she hits the switch and the light goes off

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but you know, I mean we live in a union world. So I said to them

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I said you have got to give me permission. You have to deputize me right now

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I will do it and of course they said oh, we want your help. Okay

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_04]: So so you you work for that union for roughly uh five minutes or something like you're like

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you're like the old sports hero who signs the one day contract so they can retire as uh, yeah

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Whatever yes

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So is there anything particularly on screen that you would say that maybe we didn't notice and we should go back and look for

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't work in the art department

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Most the graphics in the show

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Were designed by uh in the first couple seasons. Uh Evan register and then uh, uh Arthur oddman second

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Are in the in the fourth

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_03]: But there are there are a couple of moments where

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_03]: So they say well would you come in for a day and help out?

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_03]: So most of the mission patches designed in in for all mankind were uh, uh,

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Where Evan registered right at least for the first

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_03]: first three seasons

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_03]: but

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And Evan did apollo 15

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_03]: The apollo 25 but I I did 16 through 24

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_03]: They did use those them on the costumes and they uh, but they're also on the wallet admission control

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so yeah

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I did the

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, jamestown

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which is one of my favorites. Wasn't there something in admission control at the top that had

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_02]: NCC not ncc but 1701 there were some there were some yeah, there's some easter eggs. Yeah

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, that's right. I forgot about that. Uh

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I usually wrote

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_03]: the text the statistical important obscure data in the screens above mission control

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Where you're uh keeping track of of other spacecraft keeping track of the the status of the

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_03]: ground stations and such

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_03]: and

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_03]: We actually uh, uh, uh, Bradley Thompson one of our

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_03]: producer writers

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Kept this amazingly detailed chart of of what missions were in space at and at any time

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_03]: So I could use that but if you look at it

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It shows or orbiters and other spacecraft that we don't

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't actually see

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_03]: And for some reason

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Who knows why uh throughout the entire season the uh space shuttle enterprise is always in flight

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and and uh, it's it's it's all it's always on a mission

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's neat

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And and there's another

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_03]: set of numbers that shows uh

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_03]: what tracking what the various deep space network tracking stations are doing and what

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Missions they are presently

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_03]: talking to

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of the time uh one of them at least one of them is talking to something called Voyager six

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh nice

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_00]: We're speaking there is one line I caught um in one of the last episodes of of season four

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Where when Danny pool is sending a message back home when she's talking about the forthcoming grandchild and how she's going to watch

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Star Trek with them all three shows

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So in 2003 in this altered this is the downside of the alternate universe. There's only three shows a star trek

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_00]: In 2003

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_00]: We're in

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_03]: We asked and others have asked run more what that was

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Because I want to know uh what he had in mind and he's he said uh, uh the original series

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And in that world the star trek phase two spin-off happened

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay. Okay. Right and also in that world start for next generation happened

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_03]: So there's an interesting uh result of that uh start at the motion picture

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Was actually an expanded version of what would have been the pilot movie for star trek phase two

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_03]: So in in that universe

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Star Trek the motion picture never happened

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Wow

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_03]: There's there's a uh, there's a scene in

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the second season where um

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Karen is is

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Trying to get under uh under Ed's skin

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_03]: by spoiling

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Star Trek 2 she's you know, she said oh, yeah

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_03]: Kelly and I went to see uh, Rathakon and and the spark dies

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_03]: And she she says that despite him

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But you notice she says Rathakon. She doesn't say star trek 2 so in the for all mankind universe

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Star Trek the Rathakon is the first star trek movie

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's interesting. So I wonder if now that makes me wonder about all the other space probes

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So because star trek the motion picture had

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Voyager, you know vijer was voyager

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Did those probes happen in this alternate universe?

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Because they launched in the 70s

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Like to think that they did

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Who knows but if the money is going towards we got to get to the moon we're establishing the space and stuff

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that far out stuff isn't happening

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, well in the

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it the first episode of the second season?

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, they uh

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, when when there's that big solar flare

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_06]: right

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_03]: our flight director

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Irene

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Hendricks or someone says to her she had to say there's someone says to her

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_03]: We're getting a signal from

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Some uh some interplanetary probe so

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_03]: NASA clearly had interplanetary probes happening

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I don't know that they certainly didn't go into the big but

[00:50:38] [SPEAKER_03]: in the

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_03]: fourth season

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_03]: We see that in in the in the whatever year the

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_03]: The fourth season is set they have a jams web style space telescope. I notice that that scene where they kind of go through

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So the company I work for built james web. I didn't get to work on it

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_00]: But you know we built it so I yeah, that was beautiful and very there were a couple uh

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_00]: ties to my

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_00]: My day job company

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_00]: In the third or fourth episode of that fourth season where kelly and elita is doing a pitch meet

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_00]: They're going around to companies to pitch them their idea

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Northrop grumman was one of the pitch folks and the first thing that that hit me when I saw that is it's the old our old logo

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So northrop grumman had a logo that had like this swipe underneath and that um a few years ago in real life

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_00]: That logo got changed to

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_03]: What it is but it was it was appropriate for the time period of that episode was it not? Um, no

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, because no

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Because that logo came out now again in the alternate history that is the show sure in real life

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_00]: That logo predated when they bought my company

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_00]: That and that's when I when I joined but I don't think by 20 years

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that was still a fairly a newer logo

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But in I don't know a couple years ago. They did now like this little

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_00]: um

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Corner thing like it's meant to be I think part of an arrow is the what I heard

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_00]: but but that hit but that hit me especially because um, yeah that

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Those kinds of pitch meetings I have been I have attended

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_00]: So that was kind of fun

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_04]: um

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And we're still there as as northrop grumman and it wasn't an alternate like

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Staying grumman because back in the 60s. It was just crumman. So apparently that merger still happened

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_04]: I I was gonna say I know we

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_04]: We can't shouldn't

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_04]: even discuss season 5

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Because we all want to exactly wait for it to happen

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_04]: um

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_04]: It appeared on the internet or whatever that there's supposed to be a spin-off series

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_04]: called star city

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_04]: About the story from the russian point of view is

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that true? Is that something that's being?

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Developed or is that just you know, wishful thinking on people's part? Yeah

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Ben ben and matt who are over the

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Unbrown where the creators of frome and kind are working on a spin-off series called star city

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Which tells the story of the space program from the soviet perspective

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Which is a very very different story

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and uh

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_03]: we're

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Looking forward to seeing what they come with

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_04]: That's very interesting

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_04]: So again, you know, you know, okay. Well, does that mean molly will be a part of it?

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_04]: Well that you know develop that thing

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_04]: They the intricacies about what was happening with the the russians the

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Skull duggery the this whatever is going on

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_04]: It's gonna be interesting that that does happen because it's it's kind of nice

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_04]: It's good to see from the other point of view

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_04]: But again, you know depending where and how they develop it

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, do they go back to when the russians first landed on the moon?

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And they're so happy about beating us and all that and it goes from that point or it'd be interesting to see how that develops

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_04]: And where that goes. Um, so yeah, I mean the more the merrier

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_04]: The more that you can you can come up with these shows

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_04]: And I hope of course they will include you

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_04]: As technical directors for that and you'll continue on working happily with these

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_04]: You know with this production team

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_04]: um, but yeah, it's

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_04]: We can't get enough of this. We really can't because it's so

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_04]: It's so creative

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_04]: and for us that you know

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Myself who grew up from watching, you know

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Alan shepherd first take that first shot on the redstone rocket all the way until

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_04]: A couple of

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Average Americans who happen to be billionaires poking their head out of the

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Out of an airlock and looking out onto the horizon and seeing what we all dream

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_04]: We could see if we had a few billion dollars in our back pocket

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_04]: So to watch that progression

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_04]: but

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_04]: In your story or in the story of for all mankind to see it go in a completely different direction that is still

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_04]: relatively

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Plausible

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Except maybe you know to think about where they had they developed the technology

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_04]: and the financial resources to be able to push

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And allow nasa to do what they always probably really wanted to do to establish a base on

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_04]: On the moon and ultimately land on mars and establish a base there and

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_04]: reap whatever benefits they can from

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_04]: from

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Mining on those particular planets and developing the resources so they could be self-sustainable

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_04]: um

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_04]: We are grateful. We're grateful that this theory appeared

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_03]: If you recall in the late 60s when apollo was at its at its heyday

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_03]: nasa thought if this funding continues the it's entirely realistic to

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_03]: That we could send an expedition to mars by by 1980

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_03]: No, that was

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_03]: That seemed totally reasonable. It certainly seemed to totally reasonable to kids watching Neil Armstrong walk on the moon

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're living or I to me was

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_04]: When those rainy images appeared on tv it was like we were there

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_04]: They put us on the moon. You saw something happening in real time

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_04]: That was truly amazing and it's still amazing to this very day

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_03]: And to those of us who grew up in that era

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_03]: We on one hand we thought it was incredibly cool on the other hand. We thought

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_03]: This is simply what what a great nation does

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_03]: That uh and it never occurred to us that we wouldn't keep doing it

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, why why why wouldn't we keep pushing forward and into the unknown?

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Why wouldn't we want to see what's over the next hill?

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Why wouldn't we go on to the next planet?

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Because who knows what benefits there are there are to be to be gained for all of us and

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Secrets there are to be learned and and and we still can we still should

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_04]: well

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_04]: What is the next

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_04]: What's the final frontier? What's the next frontier?

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, and that was and I guess that's the beauty of what we go back to what chris was talking about star trek

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that we were watching

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_04]: the nasa space program in the 60s developing

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_04]: from

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_04]: mercury to gemini to Apollo

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_04]: At the same time we were watching

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_04]: A future that was hundreds of years in the

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_04]: From now

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_04]: And we thought yes, that's what we want to have that's the attainability of what

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_04]: The space program is supposed to do to bring people together

[00:57:58] [SPEAKER_04]: to

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_04]: develop resources that

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Can push us

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_04]: Forward and and I say that's the one of the more beautiful scenes in from all mankind

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_04]: When danie says screw it

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to hook up with the soys

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And they avert world war three because of that action because of that showing of friendship

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_04]: And camaraderie and that yes while on the moon they're shooting at each other and they're

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, there's war happening on the moon

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_04]: There's peace happening

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_04]: With the polo and soys and that was just really a well done scene to diffuse that whole situation. It was great

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Indeed it was and it was

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_03]: it was

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_03]: On one hand it was it was it was distressing to

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_03]: To see the military conflict on the on the moon

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But it's our our writers did a great job of juxtaposing the two things

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And showing that even out of out of an awful situation you can

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_03]: You can pull a good outcome. Yeah, exactly

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_04]: um, adina chris any other further questions

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Comments that you have for mike and denise this this morning

[00:59:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And no, because I could I could

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna say I could pick apart all the technical stuff and talk about the differences between, you know

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Current and wishful future and all that but you know, that would take the whole it's the day

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_03]: tell us

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Pick one thing and and tell then tell us what we did wrong

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_00]: No, I see. I don't think anything is wrong. It's just the it's more than just the comparison of

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, what we do versus what we wish we were doing

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't in fact

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Again thinking through in the real world where we have the Artemis accords and where there are thoughts about going to the south pole of moon

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, seeing them just plop, you know, james town base down there and like hey, that's where we're doing

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Seeing them pick out the ice out of

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Craters. No, I thought it was all

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing the thing that I don't know and I do have some friends who are mars planetary sciences

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Scientists the thing that I don't know is when they had the accident the drilling accident on mars

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_00]: is how

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Is

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it that dangerous meaning that caused this whole land, you know

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Basically this whole collapse in this whole landslide and could that that that's the one question that I that I have about that

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But everything else the technology

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Um

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_00]: The only thing I would say that it was my question but again because it's an alternate reality. I'll accept it is

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: All the astronauts and even nasa they're more willing to take risk than they are today

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Like right now human safety is like rules above all else at every level at like every person I've ever met

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_00]: We're in this alternate vision that they are taking more risks at the individual and at the organizational levels

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Which but in this alternate future, you know, they are not shaped by the real events that have shaped us so

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so picking apart it like that is

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_03]: The there are a couple of responses first of all it's it's television. So needs to be more exciting right right

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_03]: on an organizational on an organizational level

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_03]: NASA clearly

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Cares about its crew and puts crew safety first properly

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_03]: but

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: even more than that

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_03]: There is the underlying understanding that

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: If we lose an astronaut in astronauts life

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_03]: It has the the very real potential of unraveling this entire program

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_03]: That too far far beyond far beyond the liability for for losing a single person's life

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And so even if an astronaut is willing to risk their life

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_03]: The program is not willing to risk the consequences of that astronauts death

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_03]: And then that that shapes and has to shape

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_03]: current day decisions

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_03]: In the frail mankind universe as tragic as the deaths are

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_03]: They did not cause the the

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_03]: NASA and the space program to shut down

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_03]: so

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_03]: You still want to be careful of of astronauts lives

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_03]: but it's

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a different

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a there's a different institutional risk

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. No, I completely agree and so I find that just it just it's fascinating because it isn't just the technology

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_00]: details it is the

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: The mindset, you know of going through a different program at different time and then as I'm learning more about, you know, international law and

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So there's the outer space treaty that in the real world was written in or ratified in 1967

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I presume it was still I presume that everything up to the russians, you know

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Actually getting to the moon first really happened

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But then in the real world there's been all these other treaties that have expanded upon that

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_00]: And they've been in advance of some of the technology and what we've seen in the show is they now in season four on mars

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_00]: They keep talking about m7

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And they probably don't have all these other they don't have the real moon treaty that we really do have and they don't have the

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_00]: um

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_00]: The registration convention and all these things so all these just like things that are just different and they're

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: The implications like that whole butterfly effect of like all the implications of different things that are just different

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just it's fun

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_04]: I I can say this for astronaut safety. There are two astronauts sitting on the in the ISS right now

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Who watched their spacecraft land safely on earth going?

[01:03:56] [SPEAKER_04]: really

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_04]: really

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_04]: You mean I don't know until February really but that's all because safety is first safety is first

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_04]: And they didn't want to risk that it did something go wrong

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_04]: That's something would have happened to those two astronauts. So yes

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Mike Mike is correct. It's it is the safety of the astronauts

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also the ramifications of what happens to the manned space program after and especially now as more commercial

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Like the whole public-private partnership where you know is more of a thing

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It just unravels from it unravels for us from there

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I could I could probably talk about this all day. So i'm just gonna stop and sit on my hands

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I just want to say that anytime your names appear on something it's always like oh, okay

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_05]: We know there's going to be a level of quality and it's just always so good to chat with you

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_03]: No, that's very nice of you to say lovely to say can we plug that we?

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: One of our other jobs is we work on the gene rod and berry archive and as a spin-off of that

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, we recently

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, uh produced a

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh a documentary on the film 2001 a space odyssey. Oh, wow, where is that? You have to work? We find this because this is

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I need this

[01:05:16] [SPEAKER_03]: It's it's on youtube

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: It's it's titled creating. It's called 2001 creating kubrick space odyssey

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, i'm looking for that now. Wow, that'd be great. That sounds amazing

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we interviewed

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, uh, kair du lae we interviewed

[01:05:33] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, um, ryan johnson ryan johnson visual effects guy we interviewed

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Dan ricker. Yeah, uh who played moon watcher and watcher that was a fascinating interview

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's cool. Again, it's it's another one of those things as

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: As you go through life you never i mean you can plan you can

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: try to

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Direct your course, but so many things just pop in front of you and

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_02]: We've been incredibly lucky. Um rod and berry archive is one of them. We've had the opportunity to interview

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Folks

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: In the star trek universe. I wish we had been able to do it 30 years ago

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: we tried but

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody was particularly interested and now there's only a few left from the original series and it's been a real

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: You know pinch yourself moment

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: To to be able to do these things and we've had a lot of fun and we hope that other people enjoy

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: The documentaries as well as this amazing

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Recreation artwork that the artists that have been hired

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: by old toy and the rod and berry archive to recreate interior exterior of

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: sets and ships and

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: It's been it's been wonderful. Yeah those by the way are uh at they're on the web

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Free for anyone to look at they're on rod and berry dot x dot i o

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Did everybody write that down please and we'll we'll include it in the our show notes and it's it's it's incredible

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What what's being done? Yeah, yeah really is so it's really kind of funny because yesterday every friday

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It's yesterday for yes, it was right every friday. Um, we have a zoo meeting

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_02]: um, and we go over

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, we meaning Mike and I and then the artists and um

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: um visual effects

[01:07:45] [SPEAKER_02]: producer deer and doctrine and and

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Etc. Um, we go through and have like a two to three hour meeting going through everything

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Reviewing everything that had been done that week and yesterday

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_02]: We had to leave at one o'clock because we had a late call

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So we just basically said, you know bye. We got to go work on mars. So

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_02]: My universe is kind of colliding

[01:08:08] I

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_04]: Love it. What a nice thought to be able to say someone I have to go work on mars

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You know we kind of all laugh

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's the dream that is the dream and uh, hopefully

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Within the next but two to five years

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_04]: That dream will become no dina shaking her head no going now ain't gonna happen. Nope. There's a lot of problems

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm 68 gonna be 68 next month. I want to be able to say I saw the land on the moon and on mars

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Moon a couple in a couple years. Yeah, it's gonna take a little longer

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: astronauts on the moon

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_00]: In a few years

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we used to um, probably a decade ago. I don't know

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I used to say now we have to we have to take care of good care of ourselves. We have to eat right

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_02]: We have to exercise because we need to live

[01:09:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Because we want to see

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_02]: man put

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Boots on mars

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And that was a that was kind of a mantra, but that was like I said a while ago now. It's like

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_03]: But they're gonna launch Europa clipper

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, they're gonna launch a ripper clipper about the time that this episode is coming out

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_00]: For sure. Uh, that's going to be a great mission

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's gonna be a lot of exciting things happening and there's continuing

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're gonna be exciting things happening on the moon

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I really think we'll see boots on the ground in a few years

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Few years

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I'm certain I will live to see people on mars

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_00]: That's gonna take I don't think that I think we need at least another decade before we say that

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_05]: That's okay. It's not a decade. Oh, that's only a decade. I hope we're still alive

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, at least another decade

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Then I'll go back to eating right and exercising

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_04]: But for the time being we have these wonderful little surrogates on mars called the rovers

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_04]: And they sent us amazing photos and it's it you are there

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Through their eyes and that's what's so exciting to see

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_04]: You're still looking at another world

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's amazing

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_04]: There there's a rover there

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh cute Mike has a rover in his background. That's nice. That's cool. Awesome. Yeah

[01:10:32] [SPEAKER_04]: well, um, if there's anything else then

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna close now by saying as always and as I stated at the beginning of this interview

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_04]: It has been an honor to interview these two greats of science fiction and science fact

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you and for being on the podcast from for sharing your insights into this amazing series

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_04]: When we first interviewed Mike and Denise back in april of 2023

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Has really been that long ago?

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_04]: That they told us that we had to watch for all mankind. Now, I had not seen it because I was too cheap

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_04]: To pay the 999 per month for the subscription to apple tv plus

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_04]: but

[01:11:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I did

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And I got to watch this amazing series and other tv series and movies on the

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_04]: apple tv plus light grayhound with tom hanks. So apple tv plus

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_04]: If you're listening, we'd love to interview tom

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Or any other actor that appears on your streaming surface

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_04]: We'd love to talk to ad or

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Danny or anyone from the show because

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_04]: The actors make

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_04]: The rules come alive and they become a part of our lives and we just love to be able to interview people don't forget

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: foundation

[01:11:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And silo there's some other great shows on that

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Foundation is amazing service

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Slow horses

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Not science fiction. That's so good

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_04]: We I got that. Yeah, we've got that plugged in to watch that one. That looks really interesting

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Really good. Yeah, they just they just be daring what season four?

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Or three I can't remember and we've seen them all it's so good

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_03]: We loved the most recent season of the morning show. Yeah, which is oh my god. Yes. Yes, wasn't that I mean

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and that shoots

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Right next to I mean not not this season

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But right next the soundstage right next to one of our sound stages

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: We've got like three or four and you walk by and the the doors are open. You can see inside to this. Yeah

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_03]: in fact last season

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_03]: They were shooting on at sony pictures on stage 27 and as we walk by the open door

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_03]: We didn't go into their soundstage as you walk by the open door. You would see

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you would see their blue origin style spacecraft

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And and and coincidentally that was the same soundstage that we used in the first season of start of

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_03]: For all mankind. Sorry for all mankind

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_02]: For our lunar surface and our and our jamestown base. It's the coldest stage in hollywood. I'm not kidding

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: it was

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: huge

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Huge soundstage and they didn't heat it

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And oh my god, I've never been so cold in my entire life. Anyway, we're I'm very glad we're not on stage 27

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Well when we had the heat wave here in los angeles, it was probably the best place to be if you could

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_04]: So for the time being we want to thank our friends at trick geeks for including us on their platform and the other

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_04]: podcast listening platforms that carry the big sci-fi podcast

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And as always I leave you with these parting words

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Look to the skies

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Live long and prosper

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the big sci-fi podcast

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're having fun and enjoying the podcast

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[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Once again, we're a part of the trek geeks podcast network and you can find our podcast along with other fantastic podcasts

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