Cowboys & Aliens

[00:00:00] This is the Big Sci-Fi Podcast, the biggest sci-fi podcast in the galaxy, a proud part of the Trek Geeks Podcast Network. Season 6 was a blast, but Season 7 is going to be even more fun as we continue to go where no podcast has gone before, deep into the sci-fi universe. Join Idina, Brian, Chris and Steve as they explore television, film and literature for the best sci-fi has to offer.

[00:00:26] Even if you're not a sci-fi fan, you'll love the banter and the epic tangents as these four friends talk about what they love. We invite you to sit back and relax because the journey is just beginning on this season of The BIG Sci-Fi Podcast. Well, howdy there, partners. This here's another episode of The BIG Sci-Fi Podcast Roundup.

[00:00:53] I'm your host, Sheriff Steve. So gather up your young'uns and get ready for another exciting adventure of our podcast. Y'all ready? Oh, about some time ago, we all talked about a strange mashup of two different genres of them motion pictures, the fisticuffs and the science fiction.

[00:01:16] That was a movie called Real Steel. Now, in my day, the only real steel worth a cowboy's laugh was his trusty six-shooter at his side. But we ends up going to talk about another mashup of two mighty big different genres. That'd be the western and the science fiction. Now, a long time ago, well before any of you buckaroos were born, there was this here TV show called Star Trek.

[00:01:46] Now, the makers of it, they sold it to the big TV ranch owners as wagon train to the stars. And you know what? I done watched all 79 episodes of Star Trek, and I done never seen no Calistogi wagon in any of them episodes. Anywho, this here mashup of western and science fiction was used in one of them motion pictures, and it starred,

[00:02:11] and I'd be a tin horned snake if I didn't say that this was the gall darn honest truth by an English dude named Daniel Craig. And he was one of them secret agents too? Shoot, if that don't get all. Well, before we get started, and I'd be strung up if I didn't introduce the cast of the big Sci-Fi Podcast Roundup,

[00:02:38] and they is, as Miss Kitty, we got Zadina Mignona. I don't even know what to say. Dying. Playing Marshall Dillon, that'd be Brian Donahue. And as Festus, the ever-loving Chris Fox. Now, Buckaroos, I got some sad news to share with you. Marshall Dillon couldn't be here today.

[00:03:04] He's got to go up to Tombstone and deal with some rustlers up there, but I guarantee you he'll be back for another exciting adventure. So, pull up a bedroll, gather around the campfire, pour yourself a cup of cowboy coffee, and listen to our Zane Gray novel of the motion picture, Cowboys and Aliens. I reckon.

[00:03:31] Oh my god, Steve, you absolutely missed a career in stuff. For sure. I love it. I love every minute of it. I just had to have some fun with this just because of what it is. Well, of course. I can't do this at home. I do this thing sometimes if I'm in a small town, I'll go, excuse me, we'll try and do my sheriff thing. I was like, I got to round up some cows. Miss Henderson is having a problem with the tomato rant.

[00:04:02] I don't even know what I'm doing. But it's so much fun. So, I'll do that if it feels not around. So, I appreciate you doing that. All I can think about is, I keep going back in my brain, it's Slim Pickens from Dr. Strangelove when he's doing his cowboy voice in that. Oh, right, right, right. It's been a long time since I've seen that. Nuclear combat toe-to-toe with the Ruskies. But anyway, I take that. Love that. But folks, we're here to talk about Cowboys and Aliens.

[00:04:29] So, I hope, let's open up with the first question, which is, when did you first see the movie? When did you first see Cowboys and Aliens? I think I rented it in 2011 when it came out. Okay. I don't remember seeing it in theaters. I rented it, liked it. But I have thoughts about it for this, for tonight. Okay. That's fine. Adina, do you remember when you first saw it? Two nights ago. Okay. All right.

[00:04:57] The first half, and then I saw the second half yesterday morning. Okay. That's fine. Before work. I woke up really early. So, 2011, and this was interesting because, yeah, when we last talked about... Real Steel. Yeah, Real Steel. Mm-hmm. Also a 2011 movie. I was very surprised when you guys asked about that movie and then asked about this. I'm like, how do I not know these movies? 2011.

[00:05:23] 2011 is my year of complete cutoff from pop culture and everything. Because I had a baby and my dad was terminally ill and passed. So, yeah, anything that happened in 2011 outside of my immediate family, I am completely unaware. I have no idea what happened in the world. Yeah. So, because I'm like, you know, a movie with Hugh Jackman? I'm in. A movie with, you know, Harrison Ford? I'm in. How did I not know? And it was because it was 2011.

[00:05:53] Yeah. No, that's understandable. I remember seeing an ad for the movie and going, Cowboys and Aliens, this is going to be so stupid. I mean, really stupid. And then I read the LA Times review of it and they basically said, so stupid. And then I went and saw the movie and I said, excuse me, did we see the same movie? You know, it's just how I felt about it. Well, we're going to have a very interesting conversation because there was a reason why I couldn't watch this all in one night.

[00:06:23] I had to turn it off. I was, I was not into it, I guess. Really? Polite way. Oh my gosh. No. But then when I woke up like extra early, I woke up 90 minutes before my alarm went off the next morning. I'm like, oh, I really should finish this just for the podcast. And so I did. And? And? Oh, I did not like this film. I really didn't. I'm sorry. This is like, to me, like, it's not as bad as Moonfall.

[00:06:53] Wow. For our listeners, you know, we, it was over more, well over a year ago that we talked about this. Two years ago. The most horrendous movie of the recent year. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a while actually. So go back and listen to our Moonfall episode. Okay. This was not as bad as Moonfall. Mm-hmm. But it wasn't much better. I was. Really? Now, tell me. Because, because. I will tell you in great detail why. Please. No, sure. Because, I mean. The big thing is from, from the first moment. Uh-huh.

[00:07:22] They did nothing to get us to care about these characters. Mm-hmm. They just threw a bunch of characters at us. Okay. And gave us zero reason to care about a single one. Mm-hmm. And that was like, that is a crux of where it all like fell apart. Mm-hmm. And what makes me very angry is because they had all the makings of a potentially good movie. You know, they, they had some stars who can act.

[00:07:49] In fact, the thing that I liked most about this film was Harrison Ford. He is, he, he acted. Yes. He acted the heck out of that part. He was the most amazing, like disgruntled old cowboy. And it was just amazing. Mm-hmm. So they had all the pieces for a really cool film.

[00:08:10] And instead, it was just this thing that they just put in front of you and, and nothing draws you in. Guy wakes up. You don't know anything about him. You have no reason to care about him. He does nothing redeeming. Mm-hmm. He's just a guy with amnesia. Who cares, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and they didn't improve upon that from there. And they just, they just kept throwing characters. Here's a new character. Here's a new character. And then some characters die. And who cares?

[00:08:37] And who knows what's going, you know, like that, that's where it all, like the, the terribleness stemmed from. Okay. Chris. Okay. So I had a very different reaction. The first time I saw it, I remember just not like, I didn't dislike it as much as Adina disliked it, but I didn't love it. And I like, so I just never went back to it. And then this time I was watching and I felt like, okay, what did I dislike so much about it the first time? Um, whereas I always have a hard time.

[00:09:06] Like I like some Westerns, but I finally need to psych myself up to get into the, like getting to the mood. And usually what I do is like now the really the best time for me to watch a movie, especially if Bill's not into it, is when I'm like either on the train or on the bus. Okay. Um, so I started it up and I was actually surprised at how quickly I got into it. And then overall I felt it was good. I enjoyed it.

[00:09:28] I think maybe for me, the aliens were probably the weakest part because there was, they kind of showed up like on and off throughout the movie, but they didn't feel like they were that impactful. But I have to say, I did like the, the, no, not the aesthetics, but I liked the vibe of the movie. I really liked the soundtrack. I am always a sucker for, okay, we don't know about this guy. Oh, he beats up a bunch of people who are giving him our time. All right. I'm in.

[00:09:58] I support you. You know, let's watch Daniel Craig beat people up. And then I liked a lot of the actors. It was cool to see, uh, is it Keith, Keith Carradine? Yeah. Yeah. So when I saw the credits, I'm like, oh, cool. I forgot that these people were in it. So I liked a lot of the characters. Um, I wish we got more of the preacher because I liked that actor. Right. When he gets killed at the end in mid part of the film round. Yeah.

[00:10:25] But I, I see why it seems like it was a decent, like maybe good on the lower end where I enjoyed it, but I don't know if it's one I'm going to go back to again, but the soundtrack was nice. I liked that a lot. The sound. Yes. That was one of the apps. And I'm sad that Brian isn't here with us. I know. I would love to hear what he thought of it. That is one of the redeeming qualities for me of the movies. I love the soundtrack. And now when you say about like, did you, you know, like Chris, a minute ago you mentioned, um, that you liked Westerns and such.

[00:10:55] I, yeah, I enjoy them to a degree. I never really crave them except for maybe the odd, like I love Django Unchained, which is a Western, but it's also very different. Um, yeah, but I, I find with, with like just in general with period, period pieces, I need to like get into that mood. Like I need to be in a specific mood to enjoy them. Um, so, so there are two things I want to say about that is, is one. So I wouldn't necessarily call myself like a Western Western person, but there've definitely

[00:11:23] been movies that I've, I've completely loved like young guns. I love to this day. I love, love, love young guns. Um, Kiefer Sutherland has been one of my crushes since I was a young girl and I just loved that movie so much. Yeah. That is the bond is in that. Yeah. Amelia Estevez. Yes. Yeah. Um, Charlie Sheen. Oh, Lou Diamond Phillips. Yes. No, that is, I love that movie. I love the soundtrack to that movie too, which includes some Bon Jovi song, you know, Bon

[00:11:53] Jovi songs. Um, and it's great. So the other thing I was gonna say about the period, you talking about a period piece, that was the other problem in the setup of this movie. Mm hmm. They really, okay. So, you know, going in, it's called Cowboys and Aliens. So you are expecting something futuristic or something sci-fi or at least, you know, aliens. Right. They don't. So the first scene, they've got a guy with advanced tech. Mm hmm.

[00:12:22] Okay. Okay. Where and when are we? Like, I spent the first 20, 30 minutes trying to like orient myself to, they've given us no clues. Like, is this earth in the old west? Yes. Is this like a colony plant? Like, because we've seen so much thing, you know, like other sci-fi that has a western vibe, like even Firefly. Like, or is this Westworld kind of a setup? Is this like a simulation? They, they don't orient.

[00:12:51] And the fact that they have this tech on this guy that you don't know, it's completely disorienting. Right. They have no idea. Yeah. And they didn't do anything to say. Until they explain it later on. Way too late. Way too late. See, it's funny because I never felt like, I was never confused. I don't know if it's because I saw the movie before, but I seem to remember this is, I remember seeing the trailers and getting the idea that, oh, this is like the old west. It's not alternate history or anything.

[00:13:19] There's no, it's not like the North star, which I should probably give that episode a chance again from enterprise. It's not like that situation. It's just old west. And I was never confused. I don't know if it's just because again, maybe they explained it in the trailer or I just got some, I don't think I ever saw any of the trailers. Right. Right. So if they're relying and I feel like, you know, it's not, you shouldn't have to rely on a trailer for someone to set up the expectation. The movie should just do it. For me, just the name.

[00:13:44] If I hear cowboys, I specifically think it's going to be like old. Yeah. Well, but okay. So yes. Guy with this, like in the first, very, very first scene, the very first guy you see has futuristic tech on his body. So then it, it brings a question as to wait, is this the old west or not? Yeah. And, and like I said, that thought was too distracting for a very long time until you really kind

[00:14:13] of figured out that, yeah, it kind of is, but they really never exactly tell you exactly when. And the old west is it. Yeah. The only explanation about a period of time is when Harrison Ford talks about how he had a garrison of soldiers in the civil war. So you know, so it's some, so it's post civil war, but it's not, it's pre turn of the 20th century. Okay. That's still a long period of time. Right.

[00:14:40] In which like, you're not really sure when, and you don't really know where, I mean, you know, us is a, that is a big territory out in the quote unquote old west. Where are they? You know, I think at some point someone mentioned someone going to Santa Fe, but still like that doesn't mean they could still be anywhere. You know, I got the feeling it was like, just maybe like they didn't, I don't know. It'd be like showing like, um, I don't know what I'm thinking of. Is it Hill street blues?

[00:15:08] There's a cop show that's like, was really famous and they just never mentioned what city they're in. Right. And I felt like it was that situation where like it's old west, it's old timey, but we don't eat like the specifics don't matter. It's not pertinent to that. I think that maybe that's what they were going for. And I think that's your point though. Because it is fiction. So we don't want to establish reality and fiction by saying, okay, they're outside, you know,

[00:15:35] they're, they're in the town of Laredo or something like that, you know, because then you say, oh, well that never happened. So, well, no, it's okay. But it can be an alternate history. It doesn't have to like, they, they could have, they could have started out with, you know, something that gave us, this is 10 years after the civil war and they are in Arizona, you know, like they could have given us something. The, the being so nebulous, it was distracting because you're trying to like, or, you know, you're trying to orient yourself.

[00:16:02] And again, having seen Westworld, having seen Firefly, all these other things that have a Western motif. So it doesn't, it doesn't tell me that this is automatically, this is the old west. It, you know, so like I said, you know, they threw this character in with this advanced tech in this setting and they gave us nothing to, there's nothing there to draw in, you know, to draw us in. That's all I'm saying.

[00:16:29] No, that's fine because you're not in the minority because the movie failed at the theater. It cost 165 million to make and it made 175 million in ticket sales. So that's quote unquote a failure. If you don't at least what get three times or four times what your production cost was, it's, it's a flop. Yeah. But you're right.

[00:16:55] To me, I mean, like I was drawn in because of the fact that you were, it was almost like watching the old spaghetti Westerns with Clint Eastwood where he's the man with no name. You know, you, you just kind of thrown into it and you are discovering what he's discovering as he, as he goes along. Go ahead. But there's a, but there's a, but there's a difference. I'm going to say one of the, one of the key differences in between one of those versus

[00:17:20] this movie is in that movie, they really, you have a focus on the Clint Eastwood type character. Right. You're not then bombarded with 12 or more other characters. And like, who are you supposed to care about? You know, in the Clint Eastwood movies, you know, he is the main character. Right. Done. Right. Done. Okay. And that's, so that to me, that's also a big difference. Okay. Because they introduced this guy, but then they introduced other people.

[00:17:47] And then you're like, well, which one am I supposed to be really caring about? And again, in Young Guns, yes, they introduced the whole, you know, group of characters, but it's just still a few. Right. But they gave you reasons to care about each one when they did it. And they did nothing of that for like any of these people. Interesting. So you, you don't see the development of Harrison Ford's character from the beginning of the film to the end of the film. To late.

[00:18:15] It happened all very late. Like again, they gave you nothing really to care about him initially. Initially, it was late when you see he does have like, you know, he does wind up bonding a little bit with the kid and he does have a bond with the Native American dude. You know, like you see it really late, but that's like way past like caring. Like, so, so if he's the character that's supposed to have a redemption arc, you need to give me a little something a little bit earlier, because when you first meet his character, he

[00:18:45] is just, you know, a jerk, you know, and he's a cantankerous mean old man who has no with nothing redeeming about him. Absolutely nothing. So they, they, you know, you need to have a little something and they gave us, they gave us nothing. Now with that, Harrison Ford acted his butt off and he was still awesome. And he, I loved seeing him act, but that, that, that's it. But no, it's true.

[00:19:11] And so many scenes of him, like when he's explained to the little boy, the grandson about the knife, where he gives him the piece of apple and he's having, and then when the, his Indian sidekick is, you know, goes to the chief of the Indians and explains who he is and the guy realizes this character, this, this person that he's treated so poorly has

[00:19:39] the greatest admiration for him as a person. So that when you have the death scene of him and he says, I wish you were my son, because that's, he realizes again, he realizes very late in the film about this. It's not that he realizes because a redemption like that normally would happen late, but it's the fact that it was just, it was abrupt in the sense that it was kind of like one note

[00:20:08] of this guy is a jerk with no redeeming thing. And then all of a sudden it starts to, the good stuff starts to happen with the character. When I say good stuff, not that he becomes good, but the, the good stuff that makes it a good movie and, you know, like that, that is all happening too late. They don't build up to it. What they should have really done is they should have taken their three, I thought of three movies that they should have just mixed together, you know, in form and in stuff to, to come up with this.

[00:20:37] They should have, you know, young guns. Okay. And again, the way they introduce people and their, you know, old West motif and there's all that stuff. Independence day. Right. Great. Yeah. Really? They were definitely trying to do it. Right. Which is the same kind of thing. But now again, independence day, you meet the couple main characters. You get to like, they gave you why to like these characters, you know, like they draw you into the characters and then they go, you know, save the world.

[00:21:06] And then also similarity with Stargate. Okay. Where you have basically the mismatch in technology and you have someone who can come and bring advanced technology. Now in this case, it's that alien lady versus it's Daniel. Right. And there's not the same point of view of Stargate, but it's a similar kind of thing where you have a super advanced, you know, race taking advantage of, you know, you know, someone less advanced and you've got like kind of a third party that comes in, brings

[00:21:35] in the technology to beat the advanced race. Right. Right. Yeah. I like that. I felt like they were trying to do independence day where they just weren't quite nailing it. Like I felt like, yeah, the way they're introducing people, I thought was decent, but it was like they're trying to do the thing where, okay, we're going to introduce you to all the main people. So you feel for them. And then the end of the movie, they're all going to contribute to the end, like contribute to the resolution, which they sort of did.

[00:22:02] But for me, they just didn't do it as well. Right. Because just the fact of introducing a character, like that alone is not enough to make you care of you. You have to do something to get the audience to care about the character. But isn't it sometimes where you establish that you dislike them right off the bat and then you then build into liking at the end?

[00:22:28] And okay, but when I say care, like you can, you can care and dislike, like you want, you want to be on this. You need a reason to be drawn into this person's story or drawn into their journey. It could be a journey of dislike, you know, but it's, it's something where what they did is they just had flat characters that had no reason, especially, especially Daniel Craig's character was like the worst of it all, you know, was like the worst of it, you know, at

[00:22:55] least the, the one who's like the saloon guy, um, you know, the doctor. Yeah. That's Sam Rockwell. Sam Rockwell. Okay. At least you instantly know he has his wife that he cares. You're like, there's at least a little, you know, a little something there, but with no, no one, no one else gives you any reason to be interested in them. You know when he punches Paul Dano and he's kind of like the hero of the town for like that one minute and he gets the free drink. And Paul Dano is like the kid, the paw, the paw guy. The paw guy.

[00:23:24] The rotten kid is the rotten, the rotten, the rotten spirit brat. I think it's, and I think it's the amnesia. I think it's a setup with the amnesia. I think what they, they possibly could have done, um, is have like kind of like a prologue scene or like a, like, you know, like a, here is Daniel Craig in his normal life before this ever. Like, I don't think they should have opened up on the amnesia.

[00:23:48] I think they should have introduced us to him with his girl in the before, before anything ever happened. And even though, even though he's kind of a bad guy, he's a, you know, gangster basically, but have a scene opening up where he's doing something nice, loving, cool with his girl. You also learn he's a gangster, but you kind of like, like him because you know, he can be a good guy because whatever he does with his, his woman is amazing.

[00:24:14] And then the next thing, like something happens and then he wakes up and he's everything is because I think that could have like oriented us, given us a reason to care about him and then go from there. But that's why they did the flashback scenes where they show him too late, way too late, way too late. It is where it gets hard because I feel like you care about him to a degree because he's Daniel Craig, but it's like, you also have to assume that like you've got some random other actor who nobody knew, would you still care about that character in the same way?

[00:24:44] So I see like, yeah, maybe that would have helped if there's some like little cute moment where we get to see that even though he's a bad guy, he's still thoughtful. He's doing something cute with his wife. So there's one of the, one of the story craft books that I love is called Save the Cat. Oh yes. I have it at home. I have that book at home. And I think we've talked about it before on the podcast where that's a whole idea. You can have like a guy who's like a bad guy, but you, you give them the save the cat moment and you, but you have to do it early.

[00:25:13] You have to do it like pretty much immediately to draw the people in to care about the guy. Like he could be like a bad gangster, but he has to do something like nice and sweet, you know, but that has to happen. You have to see that at the beginning. You can't, it can't be, it can't come late. So those flashbacks came way too late. Interesting. You have, you have shared a lot of really good reasons behind your feelings, Adina, you know?

[00:25:43] I, I just, yes. I am surprised. I am surprised about how you feel about it, but that's okay because you, you as a writer have established your characters in a certain way, how you wanted them to be introduced. And so you, you have your style of doing this. Now, these people took a different approach and I don't know because this is all based on, I believe, graphic novels. I think so. Yeah.

[00:26:10] That were came out in, you know, a number of years before, cause there was, I think Wikipedia indicated this. They started looking to bid on this movie, uh, back maybe five, 10 years before it is even, was even made. And I mean, you've got, you know, you look at the cast who wrote it, you know, these are all veterans of Star Trek that were all the writers in this. You also have Steven Spielberg in production. No, no, no, not veterans. No, they're veterans of Star Trek now. They weren't then.

[00:26:39] But it's funny because like, I don't, I hate to talk badly because I do like some of the work that, work that they do. But generally speaking, the writers that wrote this are not always the best where you see them pop up as like, okay, is this going to be problematic? Right. Um, so they don't always have the best track record. So it was kind of like, okay, I know what to expect, but, um, but yeah, it was just, it,

[00:27:04] I mean, I still enjoyed it a lot more than Adina, but I felt like maybe it's big crime is that it just, it wasn't as cool. It wasn't as fun as it could have been. Hmm. Okay. Right. No, that's, and these are all valid, valid statements because each, everyone looks at a movie a different way or feels about it. I, I still, I really love this movie. I've enjoyed it every time I've watched it. And I, I, and I, again, when I left the theater, I was satisfied with what I saw.

[00:27:33] But again, it's each, how we go into it. I, I accepted the fact that I was fine, not knowing who this guy was and why he, where he was and how he had to figure out what was going on. And yes, I, I, yes, maybe the flashbacks were a little late, but they were still done. And I did love the relationship that was developed between Harrison Ford in the Indian and Harrison Ford and the grandson.

[00:28:02] And I think that was rather redeeming. And as far as, you know, you talk about Westerns and, you know, if you think back in the fifties and sixties, Westerns were always very clean and sanitized. And then as the years went by, they became more gritty and more gritty. And this one has that same feel to it, that, you know, natural grittiness, that life on the range was like. So I, I liked the way that they depicted it.

[00:28:31] I think they did a great job depicting it and depicting it, except for the white teeth. Like every, I shouldn't say everybody, but Daniel Craig in particular just was like dirty. He'd been through it, but man, his teeth looked like they were pristine, like they were perfect. And that might, you know, I don't, now that you say that, that also could be another reason why it's like disorientate. Like what are they really in the real old West? Is he even human? Cause I think that was what I wasn't even sure. Okay.

[00:29:00] You know, too, like, you know, yes. And possibly I didn't pick, I wouldn't have articulated the teeth, but now that you say it, that might be part of. Okay. Whereas. I also just noticed that that's a Hollywood thing and that's a Daniel Craig thing. Like no matter what's going on, his teeth. Perfect. Always perfect. I think that's. Completely in character. Shame. Well, there's been other actors that have always had just dazzling teeth. Exactly.

[00:29:29] And either they're veneers or whatever. And you notice it right away. I mean, that just stands out. Yeah. Yes. But then again, his, his, the members of his gang all had horrible teeth, especially the one guy he punches in the mouth. Oh. His teeth are all gray. Yeah. So they're right on the money. So maybe Daniel said, I don't know touching the teeth. These are million dollar mouth. Okay. Don't touch the teeth. You know, it could have been like that. I don't know.

[00:29:57] I'll bite you if you touch my teeth. Okay. Then you'll know about my teeth. I would bite you, you know. Um, what'd you think of the special effects? Did you, did you, I, I thought it was interesting that they chose the alien fighter planes. What do you want to call them? That they emitted smoke, like a, like a jet. And that when the rocket takes off, when it leaves, it's a chemical rocket. And I thought, well, that's kind of, kind of interesting.

[00:30:27] Cause this thing is interstellar and you wouldn't use a chemical base system to travel through space. And that was one of the things that I was like, it's cool, but it doesn't fit. It doesn't fit. That's what was throwing me off. I guess it's like that the aliens were still advanced, but I'm like, man, they don't seem like they were as advanced as you'd expect.

[00:30:49] But I was wondering if that just because if they were too advanced, then it would want to make any sense for the, like the Cowboys to actually win where they had to like lower their tech a little bit so that they could be like, okay, we give Daniel Craig the, the weapon, the, the arm bracelet thing. Right. And then they're not super advanced. So maybe that's how they get away. But they did, they did seem a little low tech. It was, yeah, that was all, that was all very weird there.

[00:31:15] I really generally did not like most of the things about the aliens to include, uh, their ship to include like, why are they really looking for like, this is, why are they here looking for gold? It was kind of, I thought it was kind of funny. It's, um, that, yeah, nothing. And the other thing that was really bothering me, especially towards the end with the aliens is, I feel like we should have, especially, you know, Ella should have been able to say how many aliens are on the ship.

[00:31:45] It's like, it's like, they kept coming and coming. It's like, right. How many are you sending with this mining crew? I feel like it should have been a small crew and maybe they should have been less monster and a little bit more intelligent. Similar again, a la Stargate, you know, thinking a little bit more a la Stargate, um, or even thinking Star Trek 2009, you know, they've got this, it is a humongous, humongous, humongous, humongous Romulan mining vessel, but he's got a small crew. Right.

[00:32:14] And that makes a little bit more sense to me than they just have, it's like these, they're like insects and they keep coming. Like I was not. Well, they even showed at the end when she's inside the heart belly of the beast and they're all over there. They're all over there, you know? So it's like. That just didn't make sense. So I feel like it should have been like, there's like six on the ship and she knows that, you know, and given her knowledge, I feel like she should have known that.

[00:32:37] And then maybe had them have a little bit more personality, less of that, just being like a kind of a creepy alien and more personality. Right. Right. Maybe even make one, like make them the enemy again, similar to Stargate where you have individuals. And once again, they did not have what I require to be advanced creatures. I did not notice those thumbs. They did not have them. They only had three fingers.

[00:33:04] So again, they wanted to make it them so horrific. And they did that. That. And again, that's one of the problems with even, even Independence Day, as much as I love it. Still, the aliens are monsters. But in Independence Day, and this is where, yeah, it's like, I wasn't sure what they were getting at here. Independence Day, what we really saw was their suit. Right. Remember? Right.

[00:33:33] And then there was a different, the alien inside wasn't that horrendous looking. It was the suit that was horrendous looking. Mm-hmm. And so when, when they had like the kit, the, it opened, you know, like it opened up and like these extra arms come out. Right. So I wasn't like then sure, like, is that a whole suit or do they just have like, what, again, what's going on here? Yeah. Well, again, they were going for, you know, and they got it because it was, you know. Yeah, but it didn't work.

[00:34:02] Yeah, they were, I think they, I think they even said like in the, at least because I was watching this on Prime and it was saying they were going for like a combination of alien, like aliens from alien and predator. Mm-hmm. So I think that's, I think they were going like, yeah, I see what you mean. Like the aliens weren't flesh out. I love the idea that they were looking for gold, but like, but why? Like you came all this way for gold. I mean, it's kind of cool, but like just give. I just established that it is still one of the rarest elements and that's what everyone wants.

[00:34:32] And there we came to, so they didn't come to conquer us. They came for, they were just bad guys. They were no better than, than the, the cowboys that were stealing gold from, from Harrison Ford, you know, his people and from the banks and stuff. They're, they're just robbers and they're stealing gold and that's what they use the basis. Is it, is it great? No, but it was given, it, it, they just made an old Western style to that.

[00:35:00] So it's not, it's not a perfect film. I agree. It, it, it definitely is not, but it has, it has some redeeming value. It has redeeming values in it as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. For me, I would say it has a lot. Well, there's a lot of stuff that I didn't like about it. I just felt like the aliens. Cool. I mean, I just, I also just love the concept of it. I mean, like that's, I love it. Like cowboys fighting aliens. Why not? So. I wanted to love it. Right. And yeah. So, I mean, I went, I went into this.

[00:35:30] Thinking this could be really cool, you know? But again, given I hadn't heard of the movie before, I was, my expectations were low because I'm like, okay, if this was a really awesome movie, there's no way I would not have really like, probably come across it easier in the last decade or more. But, but still, I went like, I was like, yeah, this is going to be fun. Harrison Ford. Like, and no, I'm sorry. That's okay. I'm sorry. No, don't apologize.

[00:35:59] I wanted to like it. No, that's fine. Listen, again, there have been many, there have been enough movies and I always go back to the Astronaut Farmer as being a movie I wanted to love. Fair. And I, and I came out of the theater going, how could they? And I, and I do love the idea of the Western motif mixed in with science fiction. Like, I love Firefly. I love, we have to talk about that on the show. Yeah.

[00:36:26] I need to get, I need to get Dills into it, but she's worried because the ending, like I don't remember the movie being satisfying, like how it ended. So I'd have to rewatch that to see if it's safe for Dills. It was, yeah, it was sad. Yeah. There's a whole other podcast though too. Yeah. We'll talk about this another time. I mean, I think it was satisfying in that it was conclusive. Right. But was, was I happy with how each character's, uh, was left off? Maybe not.

[00:36:55] But yes, we'll talk about that another day. But that's, that's interesting because there's a series that only lasted one season. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's it. Now, why, why did it not come back for a second season? It was just. It was canceled in the middle. And, and what I think is, is generally considered as true. And I remember this because I remember when it was coming out. And of course now we're talking about Firefly. I remember when it was coming out, I was very excited to watch it. And so the first couple episodes, like it was very, very, very confusing. Mm-hmm.

[00:37:24] What I found out later, cause like, maybe it was like two years later, a friend of mine had them on DVD. He's like, Dina, you gotta watch this. I'm like, I did watch it. It was kind of weird. He's like, no, no, no. You have to watch it in the correct order. In the correct order. And for whatever reason. Whatever reason, they did not air them in the correct order. Oh, interesting. So similar, you did not get introduced to the characters properly. So if you don't get introduced to them, well, you're not drawn in. Can I just make one.

[00:37:54] You just brought up the same point of how you feel about this movie. Which is. Exactly. That's why I kept going. Even though we'll talk about Firefly another time. Yeah. That's why I wanted to make that point. Okay. You were going to say something, Chris? Oh, I was going to say in Stargate, they actually do a really, really good reference to Firefly. Where in Stargate, there was a failed TV show called Wormhole Extreme. And then it got canceled after one season. But then about 10 years later, they made a movie because it just streamed.

[00:38:23] People kept buying DVDs on them. So they're like, oh, let's make a movie. I always loved that. They were like, you know, let's make a Firefly reference. Well, and again, the one thing you brought up earlier, Dina, was the soundtrack to this film. And I went and bought it because I just think it's. And when I remember reading that when the composer of it, that was. That's what I could have listened to. Harry Grayson Williams.

[00:38:50] He said that he had listened to multiple soundtracks from multiple Westerns and took what he thought were the best parts of different pieces, brought them together for this soundtrack. Plus also adding in the extraterrestrial quality of it where they're in there inside with the aliens. And you hear those different types of sounds and different types of electronic pieces that are pieces thrown in there to give it that futuristic sound.

[00:39:20] While the rest of the film is real old fashioned Western sounding. And I just love it. I think it's a great soundtrack. Yeah, I think. Yeah, the soundtrack really killed it. I should have listened to this at work today because I was like all day, I'm like, I want to listen to something, but I don't know what is work appropriate and what can I focus with. And that would have been perfect. Yeah, I was actually just before we got on the air, I was listening to a little bit of it. I'm like, yes, this that was actually the thought I had tomorrow. I will be listening to it at work because I think it's I think it will be great background music for work.

[00:39:49] You know, and the funny thing is a movie with a great soundtrack was A Million Ways to Die in the West. Oh, yeah, I haven't seen that in a long time. Hilarious film, but a great soundtrack, you know, so again, yeah. So I mean, again, but that's enough to, you know, make the movie successful. And and it wasn't it wasn't the theaters.

[00:40:13] And I'm sure a lot of people may have, you know, walked away expecting something that they didn't get what they were expecting. And that's why I'm not know about this movie. A Million Ways to Die in the West. I feel like I've heard it, but no, I have never seen this movie. I don't know what this movie is. Oh, my God. It is. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah. And it's Seth MacFarlane. I feel like I follow him. How do I not know this either? What is wrong with me? That's OK. Now, I've shared something with you because it is it is it is silly.

[00:40:43] It's stupid. It's funny. I like silly. I like stupid. I like fun. I like everyone. This is silly. Sarah Silverman is in it. Yeah. I love Sarah Silverman. She plays a prostitute. She's hilarious. That's going to be awesome. Oh, my God. Yeah. Charlize Theron's in it. Yeah. And the interesting thing about her was she made this that movie. Here we are in another tangent, kids. Hello. Hey, we're back. She made she made that movie after she made Fury Road.

[00:41:12] So she had to wear a blonde wig in the movie. It wasn't her own hair because she had a haircut back to that. But yeah, it's a great that that's hilarious. That's OK. Well, I'm watching this this weekend. OK. All right. Then you have to let us know not on the podcast, but you'll let us know what you think of it. But it is. It's got a great cast.

[00:41:34] Anyway, try to bring up a little lightness here in the discussion we're having here about this film. I don't know what else to say. Any other thoughts? I think I covered everything I wanted to say. Everything I was building up to say, I think I got it all out. So thank you for letting me air my experiences. That's fine. I felt like I liked the atmosphere a lot. They convey the atmosphere.

[00:42:04] I both love and I absolutely love it and also hate it when I see people riding on horses. I just do something about it. But I got into it where I'm like, it just to me always seems like this. Like, oh, look at me. I'm authentically riding a horse. I'm cocky. But it was still fun to watch. So overall, I'd say I like the atmosphere of it. And I just love the way they spoke. Have you ever ridden a horse? I have not ridden a horse. You have not ridden a horse?

[00:42:33] I've tried it a long time ago and I have not ridden a horse. I haven't video games. When Elaine and I went to Kauai the first time in 2012, we went to a place, a ranch where they had horses. We rode horses. Not galloping, but just a nice happy trot. And it's a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:55] I rode, when I went to, when I was a young girl, the different like summer camps my mom had me in, many of them, horseback riding was like a thing that was part of it. Not English style riding, Western style riding. So I have, I grew up doing a bunch of that. And then as a young adult, I would find places to ride. I think the last time I was on a horse was in 2009. It's been a while. Yeah.

[00:43:18] No, it's, it's, it's really, you, you, you amazed how powerful an animal they are. You know, when you get on, like I said, when we got on it, they, you know, you have to respect the animal. You have to respect, do not try to fight with it. You know, it's, it's the boss really when you're riding it, you know? And so it was, it was a lot of fun to do that. But I haven't done it since. And that was 12 years ago. So, you know, we're almost more than almost 13 years ago. Five years old.

[00:43:48] Five or six. Okay. Well, now you have something on your to-do list. Yeah. Or when you need like a date afternoon or something. Go, go. I'll see. You've got great country in Canada. You've got Alberta. You've got, you know, you've got a real Western life in the middle part of Canada. I guess. Yeah, that's true. I never really thought about it. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. That's still, I've got to go fly there or do something. We don't have that here in Brampton. But yeah, I see what you mean. I'll go find a barn.

[00:44:17] I'm sure there's some, I'm sure there's some places where they have branches and stuff. I mean, they got it here in Burbank and just nearby where I live. They have, you can go horseback riding. Just never have done it since. Oh, well. It's okay. So I was going to close by using the Brian Donahue five-star rating, copyright Brian Donahue. How many stars you want to give it?

[00:44:45] I'm going to just reel back a little bit, Dina. And how many point something stars are you going to give this? Do you want to go first? Zero or one? Well, I wish I remembered what I actually gave Moonfall. Like, did I give Moonfall a zero or did I even give it one? Do we even rate Moonfall? We might not have rated it. No, no. I don't think so. Because we would have to step into math and pull out negative numbers, you know? Yeah.

[00:45:11] So this is somewhere like a one, between one and two with the redeeming qualities that gives it any of the points is the soundtrack and Harrison Ford's acting ability. Okay. Okay. I'd say for me, probably a three or a 3.5. Mm-hmm. Because I was thinking about Section 31, so it has to be a little bit higher than that review. So I don't know. I'd say probably a three or a 3.5.

[00:45:41] You give Section 31 a 3.5? Oh, we're going to have to talk about Section 31 soon. I was rating it a 10. I was giving it a... I gave it a 5, which I know one commenter said it was too high. But they agreed with my points about why I didn't like it. Because I feel like, for me, a 5 out of 10 is like, there's... Unless you really want to watch it like you're a diehard fan, there's no point in... Like, 5 out of 10 is just like barely... You did what you're supposed to...

[00:46:10] Like, you barely made a movie. Even though I want to... Full respect to the filmmakers of that. And same here. But I'd say for me, going back to this, probably a 3.5. I enjoyed a lot of aspects of it. That's good. This is what I would call an aspect movie. Okay. Where there's enough things I like about it. But overall, I would not say it's a great film. Mm-hmm. You just said something interesting about the respect for the people who make this. That is the hardest thing about giving a movie a terrible review. Yeah.

[00:46:39] Because you know how many people... Really, I'm sure they put so much effort into this at so many levels. And so it just hurts to basically say, sorry, but we just didn't like it. I really feel very bad. Well, again, like I said, the movie did really poorly at the box office. And, you know, $1.7... $175 million in box office against $163 million cost. Mm-hmm.

[00:47:09] That says flop, without a doubt. I'm sorry to say, but that's what it was. And Chris, I'm agreeing with you. I'm giving like a 3.5 to 4 because I, you know, I enjoy this movie. I own it. I own the DVD or the Blu-ray. And I have it. And I haven't watched it in years because it just sits on the shelf. But I have listened to the soundtrack many times. And I have it on my iPod because I really love the music. And I think it's just grand.

[00:47:39] So enjoy listening to it tomorrow, Adina, when you are... I'm going to try doing that too. I will be. Yeah, give it another shot. So I give it that. So I think that covers everything about Cowboys and Aliens. Except... I think we did it. Except the closing where I am going to... Well, buckaroos, that be our John about Cowboys and Aliens. We all hope you done enjoyed it.

[00:48:07] If you want to do the right neighborly thing and send us your thoughts via telegraph to one of them of our social snake bits like Facebook or Instagram, that would be mighty nice of you. Or you can email us by Pony Express to the Big Sci-Fi Podcast at gmail.com. Shoot, what'll they think of next, huh? And if you ain't busy, then saddle up your pony.

[00:48:37] Get enough food and supplies and ride off to visit us at Trek Long Island, May 30th to June the 1st. And if you come to our table and say, howdy, we might even put a star on you and make you an honorary deputy. So, as we ride off into the sunset, I leave you with these parting words. Live long and prospering. Keep watching the skies.

[00:49:07] Yee-haw! Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Big Sci-Fi Podcast. If you're having fun and enjoying the podcast, we ask that you would share the love by liking, following, subscribing, rating, and writing a review for us. That helps get our podcast in front of more potential listeners. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and Twitter.

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