3.02 - The Ensigns of Command

[00:00:14] Hello and welcome to With The First Link. The podcast that hopes to make our future as bright and as just as the one that we see in Star Trek the next generation.

[00:00:24] And we think that one way to do that is to recap and discuss the entire series, one episode at a time, doing our best to look at it all through an anti-oppression, pro-diversity anti-racist lens. I'm Ruthie Kouber's Somoshi.

[00:00:39] And I'm Matthew Simone and today we'll be talking about the Ensigns of Command. This episode was written by Melinda M. Snotgrass and directed by Cliff Bolt. It first aired on September 30, 1989. So I noticed that your question today was about computers and our trust in computers or people.

[00:00:56] But I was going to ask given the nature of this episode about displacement and what we're seeing going on in the world right now. Do are we going to talk about that at some point? That's something we're interested in talking about.

[00:01:07] Yeah, so I definitely want to talk about that. I have a lot of thoughts about how that topic is addressed or perhaps not addressed would be more accurate in this episode.

[00:01:20] I think I want to save it for the episode itself and for when it comes up in the episode because I feel more equipped to talk about displacement of people in the context of this story. I feel more equipped to do that than just to talk about it.

[00:01:39] Certainly not something I'm an expert on. So I would feel more comfortable talking about it within the context of the story and with some problems with how I have with how it's depicted and how that connects to what is going on in the world right now.

[00:01:54] Yeah, I don't know what we're thoughts about this episode that I probably have had before because of that wider context. I was thinking as asking more questions of the ethics and morality of what was going on.

[00:02:06] But yeah, we will get into that when we get further on the episode. So for today's check-in, what are we doing? What are we doing instead? So for today's check-in, this is something that sort of comes up in the episode. Do you trust computers or people more?

[00:02:23] The episode has a lot of questions around rationality. Like they post a lot of things that are stated as being rational or irrational. Yeah. I don't know if it's fair. It's like because then it puts the whole conversation around the displacement of these people as being an

[00:02:41] irrational or rational act to move in the face of threat. And so data absorbs it that way, but then we also have this person that he meets on the surface who then says, but we also have to take into account the emotions of the situation.

[00:02:57] But then the emotions are also treated as just irrational around the situation. But I don't know. Yeah, I think as people we kind of talk about humans versus computers as though they developed separately from each other. But computers are developed by people when you look at like,

[00:03:24] certainly with like large language models and AI type stuff. All of that stuff is put together by people or it is being fed information that was first collected by people.

[00:03:39] It comes up in this episode, there's this one character that says that computers are not going to be biased. But that's not true. Computers are going to have the same bias that the people who created the programs have.

[00:03:53] Sure, yeah. We we've seen that in the way that some computer programs respond to things like biometrics, driving choices, like basically what happens is that we program our biases into the computer are probably unconsciously in some way, depending on how data sets are collected. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:04:09] Yeah, so I will say when I am calculating marks in something like, like if I'm marking a math quiz or whatever and I'm counting up the marks, I prefer to do it in my head not on a calculator.

[00:04:24] But if I've got like large, large sets of marks, you know, I'll let the spreadsheet do it do do the calculating for that. But I always want to like double check and make sure the mark

[00:04:36] feels reasonable compared to what the person was getting. So I feel like I don't trust computers. To do like I don't fully trust computers to make decisions. I always want to, I want there to be like a human backup or a human involved in the decision making.

[00:04:50] Oh, yeah, I would I would want that too, especially if the decision is whether to remove me from the decision making process as a result of having that computer. Like when you're doing a self-driving car, I mean, there's some convenience to that, but you're also removing

[00:05:03] yourself as a factor in the control of that car at that point. So that's something to think about. I know that like for example, like we have artists or there are artists in my life that have had their material scraped by AI art generating tools without their permission.

[00:05:20] And so you know, we're seeing more conversation around AI coming up around about labor rights and creative rights, but it seems like in some way AI right now is also being used as a way to

[00:05:31] steal essentially creative content from other people. I think when it comes to inventions like this, and the trust of them, it's also trusting the environments. The trust is influenced based on the environment in which it was created and right now AI is being created in a capitalistic

[00:05:48] market for capitalistic purposes. That said, it's not like there are some good use for it, but you know, we I see that AI might be used to accelerate research on medicines and life saving things that would be great too. So I guess it's who's behind the computer.

[00:06:04] I think though that that is a really important point that the context of it's created in it is worth being created in a capitalist society and largely to promote the ideals that or to to make living in capitalism easier for the people who benefit from capitalism.

[00:06:22] Yeah, because we could create more content faster without needing any of you. We don't pay you anything. You just sit there and consume. It's become a sort of joke of like how did we get to a point where

[00:06:34] we're upset that the robots are taking all of our jobs like that was supposed to be a good thing. And that's because the robots are taking all of our jobs, but we still need the money that the

[00:06:43] jobs gave us. So it's not like life is easier when you've got a robot to do your work for you because you can't just live without your work. Yeah, and they're also, or the other things that

[00:06:54] they're taking the jobs that we actually wanted to keep. Right. Like being creative and writing and stuff like that. So yeah, these are I think we definitely some of the challenges.

[00:07:05] Now what about in this case, a robot to make an ethical decision last season we had measure of a man where we were a robot on trial. And we really we really wanted, I think as an audience,

[00:07:15] for that robot to have rights. Yes. But that's not how I'm feeling about the AI that we're needing right now. Like it actually seems kind of insidious. Like I don't feel like this is data.

[00:07:25] We're up making data. No, and I think that's part of the issue with like using the phrase AI to describe what is happening right now when like it's not really intelligent. Like I think

[00:07:38] one way that I heard it described. And I can't remember who said this. But if you ask chat GPT type of thing a question what you're actually asking is what would an answer to this

[00:07:49] kind of question sound like? Like it's not actually answering your question. It's just based on the kinds of words that are in your question and the words that are in other answers to that

[00:08:01] question, it will create an answer to a question. Data is not that data actually is able to think and learn and take in new information and consolidate that with previous experience. Data actually

[00:08:15] is intelligent and has sentience. Part of what we see in every episode that kind of explores data's journey is that data is in many ways like has many of the qualities of humanity. He's just

[00:08:32] sort of learning how to express and access those qualities. Yeah, and maybe in some way actually did nice his own personhood in that process. Like we actually see that a little bit in this episode

[00:08:45] where we'll get to that but Picard notes that yes while he did select certain musicians to emulate in his own performances, he creates like a unique blend of them and chose them of his own

[00:08:56] volition. Like he was like I'm going to pick this person in this person and do something with it. It's not like a chat GPT is being queried with a creative direction that's coming from the

[00:09:06] person already, he's using the tool. Right. But because this is our experience with AI now, maybe if the first ever truly sentient AI is created we might be some of those people, they're on

[00:09:18] the other side of the argument being like really are they actually thinking though? Like this is really actually a thinking machine or is it just a bunch of curious to galvanism like

[00:09:26] right or describes data in that episode. Yeah, we're going to end up being the madaxes. We might be the madaxes of that argument until like he said. Yeah. I always come to think about it.

[00:09:38] So I don't know, do we trust computers or people? I guess it depends on who are the people that have created the computers. Well that's the other thing. I mean I think in saying that like

[00:09:47] do we trust people? Well it also depends on who the people are. Yeah and what they're trying to do with that AI. Yeah or not even with AI like just do we trust people to make decisions? Well

[00:09:58] people have made some pretty bad decisions too and there are some people that I would not trust just as people. Like if you're like, you do want the computer to make the decision or do

[00:10:08] you want the person to make the decision. Well it depends on who created the computer for sure but it also depends on who the person is on the other side like of that of that choice. Right, who's affected by the decision? Yeah like we're talking about self-driving cars.

[00:10:23] Yeah, I don't it definitely depends on who created the self-driving car. But it also depends on who's behind the wheel of a car. Yeah, but also who's in front of the car. Like did any

[00:10:34] of those people have a decision as to whether or not that car is going to be stopped driving right now? The person crossing the sidewalk got hit by one of those cars. They're like, it wasn't

[00:10:41] wide decision for that car to be self-driving either so we also got to think about the other wider context of who's being impacted by the decisions being made by AI. It's what we're saying right now

[00:10:52] is that these computers are making choices but they aren't really like it really still is is us giving these decisions. Yeah, it all comes back to like as people we need to do better.

[00:11:03] All right so should we get into this episode? Let's get into the episode in this episode an extremely litigious alien race asserts it's agreed upon right to wipe out a Federation colony in its territory after itself being absent for over a century.

[00:11:18] Yeah, so we're we're starting the second season three episode and I think that we can feel that in a in a variety of ways. We open in 10 forward and we've got O'Brien on the cello.

[00:11:33] Was it never mentioned ever? Yeah, but I think Colmeanie I think I read he actually like is a very accomplished like cellist and he's like composed pieces for cello. That's amazing. Yeah, but it never comes up about his character like we see him in scenes where he's playing

[00:11:47] instruments but he never has a conversation or talks that he went about being a cello player. No, I don't discuss music. I will discuss engineering with you if you want me to play music

[00:11:56] you can just be in the audience. Yeah, weird. Like it could never come up in DS9 at all. No, I don't think we ever did never hear him playing cello or anything. Anyways, so yeah, then there's this on named Vulcan and if you win on violin

[00:12:08] maybe of the old. Yeah, we all are. Yeah, Picard and Crusher are sitting in the audience. Yeah, you can hear that I always love like when you hear like strings instruments the like tuning sound before the actual like music starts. Yeah, those things.

[00:12:23] Oh, it's just yeah, I'll put it in there. Yeah, like when that happens I've always like oh something fancy is about to go down. Yeah, like if you're if you're watching live music

[00:12:35] and the strings are tuning up or whatever you're like oh this is we're about to do something fancy and culture. Yeah, it's gonna. It's gonna sound nice. Yeah. Data enters and he's holding

[00:12:43] a violin but he tells Picard and Crusher that they actually should come to the second concert, not this one because Ensign or T's is going to be playing and apparently Ensign or T's according to data is a better violin player. Because data says that according to his fellow

[00:13:02] musicians, he lacks soul. Yeah, I need listed his fist. He's like soul. So I lack soul. I guess this is something. I feel like it's a gesture that's being repeated

[00:13:12] that someone else views to when they talk to him about it. Yeah, he's like oh yeah you hold your fist like that when you say soul. Yeah, we say soul. Yeah so that baby sounds to your robotic or like

[00:13:23] mimicking of other performance styles or something I guess. But data learns that he's honestly in the situation maybe is not always the preferred choice because Picard says a knowing your own limitations is one thing but advertising to them could damage your credibility as a leader.

[00:13:38] So what do you any feel about that? Is it is it to should you maybe be to insulated from your crew in that sense that you hide your weaknesses or would they be more

[00:13:49] trusting of them to know that you're aware of them and sharing them with people? I think that it is a very delicate balance. I think that you need to be confident in the fact that you can

[00:14:06] be a leader but you also need to be honest about your limitation. If you are shown to always be second guessing like if you're not, if you're not confident enough to actually make decisions

[00:14:21] and stick by them and if you don't actually have, actually let's say it not that and let's not talk about confidence. Let's say if you don't actually, if you're not actually able to make decisions

[00:14:32] because either you don't have the information or once you have the information you don't know what to do with it that you're not able to make decisions and stand by them then I would say maybe you shouldn't

[00:14:47] be leading people in that respect. So you should have some confidence but that confidence should be earned. At the same time, you shouldn't be overconfident and you certainly shouldn't present to your crew. I think the idea that you're infallible. Can data experience confidence?

[00:15:06] I mean this is the question about data. I think he has feelings. I don't want to deny his experience of his own life but he strikes me as someone yes he is confident in some things

[00:15:22] or not and other things. Yeah, I mean he's experiencing it seems like a lack of confidence right now. So that makes sense. Like in this case, if he's saying no you shouldn't come to the

[00:15:34] performance where I'm playing well if you think you're going to do such a bad job then why are you performing and I'm not saying that to say like if you don't think your a perfect

[00:15:45] musician then you just should never perform. I don't actually believe that's true. I think that the fact that he wants to perform is a good enough reason that like Elirio the fact that he clearly feels comfortable performing because he is performing in front of people. So that's

[00:16:01] a good enough reason that yeah Picard and Crusher should listen to him. It's kind of weird that he's like I'm going to perform for all these people but it's going to sound terrible. But for you,

[00:16:10] you should listen to Ensign or Teeth. Oh yeah but baby he maybe it's because he cares about their opinion more. I was a captain and a lead medical officer he cares about their opinion more.

[00:16:21] Which might be a desire for approval? Validation and approval that seems like an emotion even out of itself. So what DNA you're being so emotionally? I mean I think that totally understand that like there have definitely been things where I would say to like my friends like

[00:16:36] oh no you should do this other thing because that other person is going to do it better than I would and I you know but whereas with a stranger I would be totally comfortable being the person doing

[00:16:47] whatever it is that that makes sense but I also think it's there is like a sort of inherent lack of logic in that if my performance is good enough for strangers then yeah it's also good enough for

[00:16:59] my friends if they actually are my friends unless they're actually jerks who are going to be meaning about it in which case yeah which they will be. It's they care about the care about you know.

[00:17:09] So the performance starts and they are playing Mozart's incline knocks me. Yeah it's like if you know one Mozart piece that's the one you know. That's the one uh it is soon as they start playing the card is called away because the Shelley Acorporate have opened communications

[00:17:25] and so he walks out I guess Dana didn't hear that to be the case. No no no it's probably it's got super ears yeah I just used Picard Lee right. I just used starts playing and I feel like

[00:17:35] there is a moment where he's like yeah I was right he didn't like it. It didn't like it yeah see that's unhappy and he actually left the whole performance for it so I think that that's he like an emotional

[00:17:44] reaction maybe as well. Yeah on the bridge the Shelley Acorporate have opened communications for the first time in 111 years so right here mentions that they haven't heard for a little for a while

[00:17:54] time. There's an automated method with text on the screen saying that there are humans on Tau's sign of five which belongs to the Shelley Acorporate according to their treaty that they have with

[00:18:02] the Federation and that they are planning on settling this planet in four days so they need to remove the humans that are there. Yes and in their message they refer to the enterprise or to whoever

[00:18:14] is getting the message as Federation creatures. So you know what is accurate I guess? I mean but but you can see that there is a certain dehumanization already happening. I just stayed yeah we're not aware that they're actually the Federation is not aware that they are going to

[00:18:29] start to lead anyways on the enterprise. They're not aware that they're actually anyone on that planet and they just happen to now out of all the planets they've just memorized this and Tau's seizure five and the concentrations of a high ironic hyperronic hyperronic radiation that are fatal

[00:18:43] to humans so they're like the campy anyone actually there and so Picard says this war it's an investigation and he sits down and they set a course to Tau's signify and we go to the end

[00:18:51] and we go to the intro I want to say that I I feel like this is a moment where you can see the difference between seasons one and two and season three and beyond because I feel like in

[00:19:02] seasons one or two this would have been a captain's log where he would have been like after 111 years the shellyeck corporate have opened communications for the first time. They have told us that there are humans on Tau's signify but that planet has concentrations of radiation

[00:19:18] that are fatal to humans so I feel like this is an impret I've just done what I what I'm seeing would not have been as good. Yeah but they're all like balance of exposition which I think is difficult in science fiction because there's so much stuff that like

[00:19:31] might be dry or is complex like how do we deal with it or we throw into the log we'll put it in an observation lounge meeting like but in this case we show it because

[00:19:43] these are interesting things and the pacing is I think really different in the season. Yes or at least feels more like the best episodes of the previous season. Yeah. So we arrive in Tau's signify because it wasn't that far away and work detects life forms

[00:19:57] on the planet and can't tell how many there are because of radiation interfering which also interferes with the transporters and the phasers. Yeah so crush your suggests that there might actually be possible she says there is research showing that it might be possible

[00:20:13] to adapt to living with such high levels of radiation. But Riker notes that if they don't remove these people then the Shelly Act will buy force and he says that they consider humans

[00:20:26] to be a lower life form and would just exterminate them. Right so we're not even talking about removal by force like we're just talking they'll be killed. They'll be just dead. They're not going

[00:20:35] to like move them from the home they'll just be dead. The card asks Riker or Gina is not affected by the hyperotic radiation. So he's going to go down in a shuttle to start evacuation. So data is

[00:20:44] going to be our first point of contact with this settlement and also trying to determine how many people are there and Riker is asked to speculate by the card about how many people

[00:20:52] they think might be down there it is like I don't know maybe a lone survey craft so 12 people. I feel like that is only put in so we can have like the payoff the shock. Yeah that it's actually

[00:21:06] like more than a thousand times that. Yeah yeah so we we see this little we see a shuttle it's what did like the enterprises like Dinky shuttles it's not like a full fancy shuttle with work drive

[00:21:16] it's like what a little tiny like sublight shuttle. Data lands his shuttle and two we see two humans approach it and they deduce that it must be from the Federation by the markings on it.

[00:21:29] Yeah and David greets them and he says that and then people who approach him say that he's the first visitor that they have ever had so data introduces himself and they say that they're the

[00:21:38] great that their great grandparents were citizens of the Federation. So then you already know this is a few generations that have gone down here on this planet but they offer to take him to Gosvain who

[00:21:48] is their leader. Yes so Gosvain was played by an actor who was not pleased with his performance and asked to be removed and the according to IMDB it there seems to be a little bit of

[00:22:07] this is not 100% clear that this was actually the case but because this actor asked to have his name removed they got another actor to like overdub his speech which oh really. Yeah and I

[00:22:23] from like when I was watching it recently and I think in the past I've always felt I've always felt like he is he feels a little weird and a little stilted and I feel like part of that is that

[00:22:36] his speech is not coming out of the actor who is standing there acting. That's fascinating because I noticed today what I was watching the episode that there are a few places where his voice was

[00:22:47] out of sync. Yeah yeah so I was watching the episode on like 1.5 speed but he was pleased to rewatch it and I thought it was just an artifact of me rewatching it in higher speed but it could be

[00:22:57] because of that so I never noticed that before it's unfortunate that that is the case about the actor I mean obviously they can feel other one feel about their performance so it is data but at the same

[00:23:06] time he's one of the more memorable characters from this like from Star Trek is one of these side characters like he's like dedicated like single-mindedness and their delivery I thought it's actually

[00:23:17] pretty good like he's a little bit maybe overblown but I do like him as a character he makes it definitely makes it feels the rule that he needs to in that world. Yeah yeah he is an annoying

[00:23:29] character. He's a little bit annoying but I have more empathy for him in this most recent rewatch. I think maybe now it'd be a good time to talk about some of my problems with the episode.

[00:23:40] Okay yeah because so I mean this is as we've mentioned in previous episodes the last three were recorded back in the spring and summer so this is the first episode that we have recorded since

[00:23:56] the most recent conflicts between Israel and Palestine have really come to a head with Israel just with their relentless attack on Gaza. Yeah let's put it that way let's not let's not pretend that it's anything other than that. So rewatching this episode in that context

[00:24:18] really brought to me some of the problems that I sometimes have with Star Trek and I think in some ways what I like about Star Trek is that it's not always super realistic in solving problems because it's not showing us this world as it is it's showing us

[00:24:42] what the world could be and what better looks like. So sometimes there will be things where I'll think like I don't know that's that's not super realistic but but it's okay because

[00:24:56] it's not about who we are it's about what we have the potential to be and I enjoy that but in this case what we have is one group of people who have legal rights to this land and who are

[00:25:16] according to certain treaties are entitled to that land and to do whatever they want with it and on the other side we have people who are actually living on that land. And the

[00:25:32] episode just treats this as a simple question of evacuation and I think because the episode is really framed to be about data and data's growth they're not engaging with the question of

[00:25:48] should they evacuate or to the extent that they do it's only to get data to a point where he is able to be convincing but they're not actually engaging with a larger question of

[00:26:01] the people who live on this land not have a right to it. They only grapple with Gochibin's desire to stay in the people's desire to stay because of the effort that they put into building

[00:26:11] the community but whether or not they have the right to stay there never really is talked about in the episode at all. The enterprise only works to stall for time to evacuate them but in no

[00:26:23] part it is a Picard like actually we shouldn't be forcefully relocating these people like what can we do to defend them to stay on this planet? Right like it seems that the treaties would have been

[00:26:35] created over 100 years ago because we haven't heard from the shell yac in 11 years but we will find out that the ship that crashed and ended up on this planet was launched 93 years ago so that was after the treaties but still however they ended up there they are there

[00:26:57] now and I do think this is a little different from looking at real world problems because if they were to leave their planet they would in many ways be fine they would be taken care of because

[00:27:10] the federation is like a socialist utopia where money doesn't exist. Right that's like a post-capitalist society so it's not exactly the same as looking at displacement within this world that we live in

[00:27:23] right now but I just I do feel that this is something that Star Trek sometimes does is it it comes and especially TNG it's done less with deep space nine and Voyager and and certainly with

[00:27:36] newer Star Trek but it comes really close to these questions and then just doesn't actually investigate them in a month away. Yeah and we might have been able to in say like I think some

[00:27:52] of that discussion around displacement and occupation comes up a lot of deep space nine people are like big themes of that show and I guess you're right like for the scope of this episode

[00:28:02] is that it is a data growth episode yeah and so that's that's why it's narrow down until like that one conversation and so the rights of the settlers are necessarily brought up. On the same

[00:28:12] time though we also can explore it maybe from the side of if there is some sort of calamity like this because we have built a safer society where people's needs are taken care of we also might be

[00:28:25] able to handle them much more easily because we don't have to worry about these people going homeless they won't have a home somewhere because we have created a federation that that kid absorbed this kind of shock that we don't have here because the housing is not right to

[00:28:40] necessarily so that's like a thing so that's it's something else to think about is that they they've been able to hand leave that away because we can always fall back on this future society

[00:28:50] that we have created called the federation. I think that that is an important distinction and I think it's kind of touched on but there is also something to be said about the home that you

[00:29:03] created and and being displaced from that maybe it would still be the right decision but a sort of acknowledgement that that is traumatic. Oh, don't we? Yeah. Having to leave your entire home

[00:29:15] your entire world is traumatic like they make it gochavan just such a jerk I find and so dismisses to so dismissive of data because he's an android and not because he is suggesting

[00:29:31] this very upsetting thing and he's also like a dictator like he makes this decision and nobody's allowed to leave it seems. Yeah, well I will see the episode and when there are times that

[00:29:41] members of the community have come together to talk with data at about the situation he like forcefully shuts data down and ends the meeting like they're not even allowed to have like

[00:29:51] freedom of association and stuff but I do feel like and I think this is to your point is that they make gochavan intentionally this way so that they can straw mad those other arguments

[00:30:02] and then we don't have to pay attention to them and I have to I should find now there was an article similar to this that it was and I should find the person who wrote it and throw it in here

[00:30:13] but there was an article that was written about this to around the Marvel series specifically Vulcan and Winter soldiers so they're their television series that took place after the snap and so for those of you who don't know the Marvel series there is this being called

[00:30:28] Datos and in the movies they're trying to prevent him from destroying half the life in the universe but he's successful. It's a half the life of the universe disappears but five years later they managed to reverse that and everyone comes back but the population has just worked back

[00:30:43] into Earth five years later and a whole bunch of those people are now homeless because they don't have their homes resolved and like they don't have anywhere to live and so there is a

[00:30:52] group of people and they're called I think it's broken flag or the flagless or whatever they're basically an activist group that are trying to fight for the rights of people that are now

[00:31:01] like displaced from their homes that don't have any citizenship that yes the heroes won but now there's all this like social up evil to deal with and the problem is is that right when they get

[00:31:10] to the point in the show to have that difficult conversation about like the rights of these people they make that activist group blow up a building with a bunch of like I think like civilians

[00:31:22] that aren't even like connected to it and just kind of then dismiss them as terrorists and it's almost like then therefore we don't need to take that argument seriously anymore and then we don't

[00:31:31] have to like have that hard conversation in the writing and then the show and it seems it often when we have people that want to stand up for certain rights or point out the the inequities around housing

[00:31:42] and things that were kind of poke holes and specifically in capitalism then they are vilified and I feel like that happens to go shivit and I felt kind of sorry for his character because I was

[00:31:51] like I feel like they they intentionally made the guy jerk just like he said so we don't have to handle that whole side of the argument that was a long way to say all of that but basically that's

[00:32:01] almost going on hey everyone it's Matthew I'm just jumping in here as in the side I couldn't buy that original article but as you look up Falcon into winter soldier flag smashers and capitalism

[00:32:12] you'll find all kinds of articles reviewing that same topic that we just talked about in terms of vilifying anti-capitalist groups in the superhero universe. That's totally I have not really

[00:32:25] watched some Marvel stuff I've seen like one or two movies but so I didn't I didn't know about that but I think that that is a sort of common tactic to avoid engaging with the really difficult

[00:32:39] questions. So I do think like yeah you're absolutely right there are other areas in Star Trek and other other series and even perhaps other episodes where they have they're more engaged with this actual topic in this one they just don't and yeah they

[00:33:00] they make it they construct the episode is constructed in such a way that they don't have to so yeah and it's it's it's it's positioned is this idea of like rational versus irrational it's irrational

[00:33:11] to stay here because you were going to die but and then and then because that wider argument around the rites is in the ball that they were like I think it's completely rational for these people to be like

[00:33:19] wait a second like why why do we have to go like tell the shelly act to get out of here and they they kind of add that conversation like 30 seconds at the beginning and then basically disappears

[00:33:29] yeah yeah so as you said riker looked up the Artemis and we saw that it was launched 93 years ago I also noted that Artemis is the name of our new mood mission that's going back to the moon

[00:33:38] in two years hopefully doesn't crash hopefully it doesn't go off course and it on the mood yeah and it was lost and searches didn't find them and data tells Picard that there are 15,253

[00:33:50] people on the planet and now they have no way to get them all off with the transporters they can do it with just the shuttles yeah if they it'll take four weeks to do it with shuttles they have

[00:33:59] three days so Picard is like well okay prepared the colonists get them ready to evacuate and he tries to get worth to contact the shelly act that's going to take some time basically they're going to have to try to delay and the planet is locked in architecture like

[00:34:18] it's kind of I like it it's it looks fun it would be fun to live yeah it's I feel like this is a relatively common star trek outdoor architecture yeah like these archways and outdoor

[00:34:33] staircases and it's all white I like it yeah yeah yeah I think it's just a redecorated set because like I'm pretty sure that this is where like in season seven roens up with the lock he looks exactly

[00:34:44] the same as this way so it's just like but it's very like queen to dice anyways so harida harida and can't or maybe harida harida harida yeah so harida can't or the two

[00:34:58] that data found when he landed is they now introduce him to Gosha man it was doing something with water he's standing here this aqueduct and that aqueduct becomes like a major centerpiece of their like a symbol of their resistance to mover his were like this in particular

[00:35:11] yeah so Goshaven doesn't like data he doesn't like the fact that he's an android and he's he's very skeptical of the fact or of this this whole idea of the shelly act even existing he's like yeah we've

[00:35:22] been here for ninety three years we've never seen a shelly act which is a good point but the way he's so dismisses of a data makes you not want to makes you not like him very much

[00:35:33] right because we love data but I again I think is we're like like if some person from the federation that no one has seen for a hundred years it shows up and it's like yeah you guys

[00:35:41] got to get out of here because he's the aliens are coming you probably be skeptical as well yeah so Goshaven basically explains a little bit of their history so he says that the guidance

[00:35:52] system on the Artemis failed and took them off course and they landed on towsign the five and a third of the people who were on that ship died before they figured out a way to adapt

[00:36:04] to the radiation and he is very proud and he thinks the federation would be super proud of what they've done right and Ruthie what was the ingenious way that they found to adapt

[00:36:14] to all the radiation on the planet they don't say to hey no they doubted others always didn't like whatever he doesn't even say like I phrased it as like they learned to adapt but he says like oh yeah

[00:36:26] a third of them died before they learned that we could adapt so the way he makes it sound is like they they just realized they had to like allow themselves to adapt and that they

[00:36:38] died on purpose or something like it's sort of it's sort of weird the way he phrases it yeah i think it's just a way to avoid some technical battle and you know whatever they're like

[00:36:47] it's not important we adapted to the radiation so data explains that in treaty this planet belongs to the shelliac i'm guessing this planet actually lies outside of federation space so they are like are this planet that through treaty belongs to the shelliac and that they probably will

[00:37:04] not be able to change it they say that the shelliac want to colonize this planet and we'll eradicate the humans if they are still there when the shelliac arrived yeah but go ship in like nope

[00:37:15] and he just sends data away yeah so data turns and quickly catches a piece of equipment that's been for one atom and then they introduce i i love i love this character so this is ardrian McKenzie

[00:37:28] who's like a total nerd and basically data is like a favorite thing in the universe because she loves robots she likes builds robots we find out and what a robot has just landed on her planet

[00:37:38] so for her this is probably like the best thing that's ever gonna happen in her life and I know i i always forget about her if you can one of the episodes but every time she shows up like

[00:37:47] oh i actually really like you i i she's such a nerd and and she loves data she thinks data is great i love the way she's like you're the most sophisticated android i've ever seen

[00:37:57] he's like have you seen many android she's like nope you're the only one nope they only want yeah go ship in immediately basically parades data by calling them a walking calculator so just super dismissive of data yeah and and he's a bit dismissive of ardrian as well

[00:38:13] yeah he says like oh you found a new toy apparently in an early draft there was like a romance between gochivan and ardrian which i feel like there are some remnants of left

[00:38:24] oh maybe yeah like some sort of jealousy but mostly he just doesn't i i the way i take this is he just doesn't like the idea that anyone would be interested in what data has to say because that

[00:38:38] means descent among the people yeah i definitely feel threatened by data's presence or if that is very clear annoying it's written so data doesn't have time to answer all of her questions but

[00:38:47] she offers him help to learn more about the people and this planet as he he's transitions now to like culturally asa yeah so on the observation lounge pickard is like okay i'm going to ask

[00:39:00] you to do something he's got la forge and a brion there and he and riker like hey we're going to ask you to do something the one thing we don't want to hear is that it's impossible get the

[00:39:09] transporters to work despite the hyperonic radiation and look for just like but that's impup and then he's like oh i see what you did there captain yeah yeah you know what i'm about to say

[00:39:21] like you know it's possible and you want me to do it anyway so they they get to work on it I'm sure it tells me card that when the treaty was first signed with the shelliac the

[00:39:31] federations sent 307 to legal experts and as we'll find out why in a moment but that they're like what do we have it Picard just says like v in me so it's just it's up to them to figure this out

[00:39:43] and as we finally did the treaties like five hundred thousand words long we go to the bridge the shelliac have not been responding to the enterprises hails worth tries again and they finally

[00:39:55] answer and it is armus basically yeah it's big it basically looks like armus yeah i was wondering i think back in the armus episode we refer to this episode in the future and we were like

[00:40:07] i think we're gonna see this cost yeah yeah it is i it is it's just the armus costume without the goo odds without the goo i wonder how they got the goo off that costume i think of these with a

[00:40:16] semifinals fire even cleaning it cleaning it for like two years so like hey we need that costume it's been hanging outside the back light like be rid stuff day after day that is a

[00:40:26] costume it's basically just like a black blanket like draped over a dude yeah it does look like the person has like fins or whatever but like they're they're not supposed to be humanoid

[00:40:36] i think also the person and i'm not sure i am to be was not clear about this i think that the person voicing and like playing the shelliac is the same as the person who was in the armus

[00:40:50] costume but not the same voice as armus yeah because you you got to really you have to get all those motions down promptly yeah i'm the same the same body the same under the

[00:41:03] goopy body a more fist body better than any of us go go put on that costume i wonder if armus is a shelliac that was what i was wondering too because he said that like

[00:41:13] he's like species of like brilliant light and beauty like just left him there because and he was there skin of evil i wonder if they just like shook all the goo off of themselves

[00:41:23] and to down to that planet all the shelliac don't seem that great so maybe uh maybe he was like the worst of them and he dropped them off on that planet or something

[00:41:34] and then he's like now he's some other entity the rest of them are not that better though unfortunately i think more more likely what it is if we're just saving money in the costume this other

[00:41:43] uh so the shelliac are not interested in conversation and they say that they're involved in the federation illegality is it's not indicated so they don't think that it's intentional that this that this quality is there but they say that regardless they have three days to get

[00:41:56] the people off the planet because that's when they are probably going to arrive so the card tries to negotiate a compromise the shelliac are not like nope the laws of law we've got this

[00:42:06] treaty and they hang up on the card yeah he's like in the middle of a word and they hang up on him so they are very much to the letter of the law that's we find out about the shelliac i

[00:42:15] like they've got this treaty they can follow it and that is it yeah on the planet data and Ardrian talk about how Goshaven is unwilling to prepare for the possibility of evacuation and they're in Ardrian's house and she's got all kinds of like computers and like

[00:42:31] yeah like nerdy things i feel like she has a star wars droid in the corner it looks very much like a star wars type droid yeah it's all of a clunky and robot anything it basically

[00:42:42] it looks like a gas can with like some beams plugged into the side of it and then like a herderirus that it goes ahead it's funny yeah and she likes has something about not having computers nearly as

[00:42:52] sophisticated as data and data looks for petroid and it's like no you don't you're right yeah it's he throws total shade at her robot there in the corner the card calls down and he tells data

[00:43:03] the shelliac are not they're not backing up so they're trying to get starfleet to array to transport it but basically like it's it's kind of up to data to figure out what to do and prep

[00:43:12] prep these people for departure yeah because he's the only one who can really communicate with him i don't know why he can communicate with the ship but Picard can't communicate with Goshaven

[00:43:20] i don't that's never i only just thought of that now but whatever yeah actually i did not consider that either that is you know why because as you said this is a data episode that is why

[00:43:32] that is happening exactly yeah it's about data's growth so we get this really brief scene in the transport room where Laforge and O'Brien and Wesley Crusher are experimenting on transporting these like metal tubes that they these are like what they always use for transport or experiments

[00:43:51] so they like transport it through the radiation i guess and it comes back like all melted and really not how not what you want to see when you're working with the transport or like

[00:44:01] riker comes in he's like oh what's that no like well that's our first attempt he's like right keep at it offers zero support help nothing just like good keep working bye back on the planet

[00:44:12] Goshaven shows data the water that they have and he's like do you know what this is data's like it's water and he's like no it's blood and sweat and tears and the result of 90 years and combined

[00:44:21] effort he's like my grandfather we hear this phrase often and the episode is like my grandfather was buried on that mountain and he died surveying the road for the aqueduct and says the

[00:44:30] colony exists because of his and other sacrifices and then he won't leak so i mean this isn't good point he's been going to point that they they've done all this work they brought water to

[00:44:38] the desert he literally said yeah they'd need this a hospitable place to live there is and so this is also the one of what my earlier reactions like when I was younger in watching this

[00:44:50] one of my reactions was like yeah like they worked so hard so that you could live and now you want to stay here what it is very certain that you will not live right

[00:45:01] and i think that that is kind of the way the episode is framing it but again like we talked about like it it's it's more than that and data is certainly not doing any like sort of affirming of

[00:45:14] their reactions to this like yes it is upsetting that i am telling you that you have to leave when you have been here for generations and you have no idea who i am in the federation

[00:45:27] unintentionally but still just kind of left you there i was evicted recently from my apartment right and not at all to make a civil or parallel out of what's going on at the other side of the

[00:45:37] world right what i left the apartment i did come to like another realization make well we're most of those episodes that are passed up as old as they've recorded i was like yeah this place is

[00:45:46] actually terrible like it was it was not a good place to live it was a bad base of the apartment and i did terrible landlord and i'm in a much better place now and i didn't see it that

[00:45:55] way at the time at the time it was like well i made the best of the space i'm settled here i don't want to pack up all my belongings i don't want to like move somewhere else emotionally i'm trying to

[00:46:04] do that while dealing with work and like everything else and it's hard even if it's a place that's difficult to live in you find a way to find an attachment to it i think that's part of how we survive

[00:46:13] yeah i did not want to go and even though now i'm in a better place i'm glad that i left at the time that was like really difficult so um i imagine try to move an entire society like a whole planet

[00:46:24] you're also thinking about like what if are we going to be together again all 15 thousand of us somewhere are we gonna be split up is our culture survive relocation like that will we what about

[00:46:35] the traditions that we form that are connected to this place you know that are all gonna be gone how long as a day on this planet like yeah you know that we've created our celebrations the

[00:46:46] the calendar of of things that we've done like all that stuff gets removed and so there's i think there's it's not just life it's the way of life itself that also might be got lost at the same time

[00:46:58] yeah totally so data is not taking any of this into account the few tells aredrian that he needs to convince other people of the necessity of leaving he's not gonna convince kosherman

[00:47:10] but yeah he can convince other people and she agrees to help him okay cool yeah so in the ready room peccard tells rager that starfleet won't be able to send transportation for it

[00:47:20] other three weeks how far away is everything else is where they only shipping rates you guys are going to say this is your your favorite we'll keep in range we're the only shipping range so they'll have

[00:47:30] to get the shelly act to extend the deadline but then they have this moment where peccard's like way to second if they're gonna be here in just a couple days that must be to ship as all

[00:47:38] ready other way so we're gonna go in your set that ship yeah i do have to say they're like okay we've got two days and originally they had three days this is my like whome with star trek

[00:47:50] always is they are so bad at showing time passing it does not feel like it so many other shows do this you can tell it's the next day on the enterprise there is no way to tell it's the next

[00:48:02] day because the lights are always the same like yeah it's if they had not said that there are two days left it would not I would not have thought that more than like I don't know a few hours

[00:48:14] had passed for your hours of godby i think we try to show that a little bit on the planet surface because they show like a day night cycle on the planet and when they're getting together at night

[00:48:22] time they put like cricket sounds in the background i'm notice that on the planet so there's space crickets on this world and even i've seen this episode you know i don't know how many times but

[00:48:31] i never noticed that a day had passed until i was like watching it to like take notes for recording that like yeah i thought this whole thing took place within a day this whole episode

[00:48:42] day yeah totally yeah i think the other reason why we skip a lot of time on the enterprise is that it's like literally it would just be a view of the bridge for hours and hours and hours

[00:48:51] while they travel from like one star system to another and the car just like reading a book until they get thing of you like i'm like a totally different show i'd be like space a at the bar and that's

[00:49:01] something would it would be anyway so riker tells data that they plan to intercept the ship and the tried by more time for the evacuation and data tells them like i i think about

[00:49:11] my depth here i think which is a bit of a parallel to maybe his performance at the beginning of the show as a cultural contact that i approve it to be less than exemplary yeah and he starts

[00:49:21] listing off he says that the leader doesn't want to listen to him and then he's like i've spoken to i don't know how many people and he's like this many you want to do they don't believe

[00:49:30] that a thread exists this many want to stay in fight or negotiate this many are like door haven't even listened to me and it's only this many and breakers like was an i can't help you

[00:49:41] and he says that the treaty is the only thing that prevented the shelliac from eradicating the colony when they first discovered it so it's going to be violent there's no there's no getting around

[00:49:52] that at this point yeah i did also he makes a comment here which i think also is kind of a straw man argument again where he's like well whatever i talked to them they just

[00:50:02] keep rep making references to like land and buildings and stuff like he's not at all understanding their connection to place yeah i i wonder if that's because data has also never really lived in one

[00:50:15] place before like his home is the ship his memory of being tied to a planet are have been kind of erased as we find out you know like on on on on the front data like he didn't really have many

[00:50:27] memories of like his growing up in his childhood and stuff like that i feel like that is an interesting interpretation of this i i also think that that likely was not intentional and more the

[00:50:37] issue is that the writers just didn't just weren't engaging with that side of it and they did set it up to be an irrational attachment to the land and that it's more that the writers didn't

[00:50:50] have that knowledge you could have maybe still written this episode that is still being a data growth episode and still taking to account those things about place and home yeah and maybe have data come do like a better understanding of that what if data like changed his mind

[00:51:05] and started advocating for them to stay on the planet like wouldn't that have been interesting where it tells the card like i don't think we should be moving these people it's actually an ethical

[00:51:13] episode where that comes up at a whole movie yeah as well that kind of covers that topic so there i i i feel i feel sort of like this is an episode where like the writers were just like

[00:51:25] this is the story we're telling yeah i mean i have no idea what happened either writers room and apparently there were a bunch of different drafts that had different things like the romance between our drian and gochivan but it really just feels like they were kind of singularly

[00:51:41] we're making it about this and nothing else yeah i think that's how these episodes were designed because we're not like in you know we're just we're still going to my episode by

[00:51:52] episode here there's no arc still you know this is kind of just how tv wise but it feels comfy just that sets we got that little here we got to stay in the circle and we're gonna

[00:52:00] have we're gonna change in what lines and hearts by the end of the show that we now know is more than just one day yeah ardrian to least tell us data that that the people are asking about the shell

[00:52:10] yeah so that's a good thing so gochivan has called a public meeting gochivan doesn't believe anything the data saying but at least that'll give data an opportunity to present his recommendation

[00:52:21] but data is kind of like down on it he's like well yeah i i i could i guess but i haven't really been very successful in doing that and her response to this is to kiss him on the map yeah and

[00:52:35] he's like he listened like the shell yeah killed by a last girlfriend some feeling a bit triggered right now it's like so let's just like too many memories of surface they hear it's weird like

[00:52:45] he interprets this as a gesture of support because she she's like well you seem to need it but like that's not that's not how kissing works you know this is what he said and you're like

[00:52:57] you know what you need is for my lips to be against your lips like but this is this is the future of the future this is that this is our kissing works it's a great to be a great future at

[00:53:08] that so i need a sign of support i think part of this is also that like archian also maybe not maybe not super understood he would behave or to you because she's like i think they co-ed in her

[00:53:19] that way on purpose so that like she fights more of an interaction with data uh i like i didn't see it as being like you know crossing boundaries i don't think data took it that way i do find that

[00:53:30] this is just an issue with how women are sometimes written in star trek and she's in 90s and yeah it's kind of how they were written on television that like it comes out i think the

[00:53:41] archian has feelings for data she's got a crush on him oh tell me but like who doesn't who doesn't have a crush on her sure i mean us our crush on every member of the crew to be honest

[00:53:52] but like i just feel like it is sort of written in this way where you can't have a woman without having some sort of romantic subplot right even if it's like an unrequited romantic subplot

[00:54:06] sure yeah by that's fair i do like archian as a character like i i love like you said like her her sort of nerdy fascination with all things robotic yeah anyway but but she does say because

[00:54:18] he's like oh i guess you are kissing me as a gesture of support and she's like oh you really don't understand you and behavior do you and she's like no i don't and she's like yeah neither do i

[00:54:29] to be honest yeah it's hard to suggest that sometimes being rational isn't enough because people are you know can be inherently irrational not to say again that this is an irrational position with the communities taking but you know maybe he shouldn't use reverse psychology so the data

[00:54:43] realizes that this is another situation where as he said at the beginning of the episode excessive honesty can be detrimental yeah he's like oh interesting i just had an experience that would be relevant

[00:54:53] to this yeah i've asked it back in the transport of the four-jabriad and Wesley now are experimenting with these test rods but there's still no they're still about saying and it's just like a couple

[00:55:05] seconds but card enters means like splendid carry on and then leaves and again provides no help or any acknowledgment of how difficult this is at least being supportive you know he did the

[00:55:15] yellow and he said yes and it's true Wesley says he wants the impossible and LaForge says that's the short definition of captain right also where are they beaming these things too because i haven't they left orbit to go intercept the shelliac by now oh that's a good question

[00:55:30] yeah i was just thinking about that i was like i think maybe like maybe they haven't left orbit yet i'm still because they're doing all these trends unless they've like created their own hyperotic radiation lab and they're just trying to like beam stuff through the radiation but not

[00:55:42] back and forth from the planet i guess i don't know yeah again i i'm not sure the writer is really put a lot of thought into that particularly yeah i maybe it didn't matter too much that's not

[00:55:52] what this episode is about math you know it's not it's about data's grown as we found it so at the planet they have a public meeting and goshven says that he's going to replace misinformation

[00:56:03] with cold hard fact and which is weird because i thought data was giving them the cold hard facts but he's fake news fake news fake news and he just tells data leave he doesn't even

[00:56:13] let that's not like a meeting where they can have a conversation he's like just get out of your yeah and this is like part of the problem with how goshven is written and it is to make him

[00:56:22] unlikable clearly but like yeah he's not even allowing there to be discussion on this and data says do you think that your position is so weak that it can't even withstand debate which is

[00:56:35] unfortunately now like a obnoxious sort of waves of gothing behavior to be yeah exactly debate and like yeah no it's not that i think my position is so weak it's that i don't have the

[00:56:49] energy to debate every single person who wants to debate because my time is not free but uh but harita times goshven to let him speak there that's like foreshadowing more stuff is going to happen that it was that particular character who's kind of like speaking out against goshven

[00:57:04] yeah so data i would say it doesn't have to a great job with the reverse psychology because he kind of admits that that's what he's doing and like after five seconds he's like oh I'm not going to waste time trying to reverse goshven's decision i admire your conviction

[00:57:20] in the face of defeat and when you die you will die for your land and for honor and your children will understand that they are dying for a worthy cause and your courage will be remembered and extoled

[00:57:34] and then ardrian is kind of like oh remembered by who and tate is like oh oh you're right yes there will be no one left to remember you i think goshven gives like the best slow clap i think

[00:57:46] it's the only slow clap in all of starcraft i was thinking about this yeah i couldn't think of another what i was like oh yeah like look at that slow clap data company deep when he goes up

[00:57:55] he actually like puts a hand on like on the shoulder of a child and he's like your children will understand that they're dying for honor and i said well man that's not pretty strong but then when

[00:58:04] goes down like you must have a low opinion of us and he's like oh i was just trying to show you in a way that would appeal to your emotions i like if you're going to do that maybe don't say it like

[00:58:15] yeah this is where i excessive honesty might have been detrimental to but he gives a really good data try at this so i believe that he does harita and can't or both things that data might be right

[00:58:27] but then goshven again goes on about generations gave their lives through this colony he again starts to say this thing about his grandfather but ardrian interrupts him and says yeah he was buried

[00:58:40] on that hill who's going to bury you yeah which is that's a good point a reasonable question like like yes you don't want to leave and that makes sense but if all that's going to happen if we

[00:58:49] stay as we die then what are we what are we fighting for she also had a rubsum what he says it he's like my grandfather and she finishes the taxes and buried on him out because he's probably heard this

[00:58:58] like 30 times all that yeah and so goshven says that if they evacuate the will abandon everything they have which is true like everything they've accomplished it'll be nothing maybe that's not

[00:59:07] true but if that's how he proceeds it and he doesn't think that their chances are as hopeless as data says which is that is kind of irrational because they don't have any idea what the shelly

[00:59:16] accurate really capable of like technologically and whatever else but he's willing to be to bed everyone's life on them which is very much like a raw raw like here will stand and then we're

[00:59:25] gonna defend ourselves yeah and he says that he says here we stand and data's like well then here you die and I I also feel like I don't understand why this is an all or nothing sing as

[00:59:37] no one else allowed to leave if they want to like are they prisoners on this planet like to clearly not but it feels like goshven is the only one who gets to decide whether anybody can leave

[00:59:50] yeah the leadership structure here is not very good like there's not like is there right there's no it doesn't seem to be like a council he says at one point he's like you elected me your leader

[00:59:59] yeah but then now that they've elected him leader they have no say in anything mean anything yeah now you've elected everything that comes afterwards that's not fair yeah that's that's not democratic

[01:00:10] but read on can't you or tell data that some of them do disagree with goshven or want to hear more but aren't comfortable confronting goshven so they plan a secret meeting at Ardrian's house

[01:00:21] so in the ready room Troy and Picard discuss some of the difficulties that come up with communicating with the shell yac and Troy says the issue is that they have no common point of

[01:00:33] reference which is uncommon usually there is some kind of wind of reference and Troy says that the shell yac have learned several Federation languages but no one from the Federation has ever managed

[01:00:45] to learn the shell yacs language and telepaths have also tried and failed to communicate with them yeah she says that it's remarkable that alien races can communicate at all which is never really

[01:00:57] like a problem in Star Trek ever because it just sounds like the leader of the Treasure fighter it is an interesting point like around language and how how we actually communicate with each other

[01:01:06] that this actually comes up a lot in the planetarium what I'm doing planetarium shows and we're talking about finding a life elsewhere at the universe and if we were to receive a message one of the

[01:01:14] coolest things that I ever got to do with hang out with Dr. Jill Tarter who is the founder of the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence and this is things that they think about like if we were to see a communication from an alien civilization how would we ever

[01:01:27] actually be able to decode it and one of my favorite space movies of all time is arrival if anyone hasn't seen that movie you should see it but the lead character that movie is a

[01:01:38] linguist when alien show up on earth and they they see currout to figure out how to communicate anyway so Troy she holds up like a cup like one of her teamcap and she's like okay say I hold

[01:01:49] up this cup and I say the word is smart which is a word that I think she's just made up yeah she's like so what do you think that I'm meaning and she and he's like I don't know

[01:01:57] cup hot she's like yeah but it could also be brown or liquid or like all these other things that might mean in that context so communication is really hard yeah it is so she tells

[01:02:07] Picard that when he's talking to the shellyex he has to be extremely accurate and this is where she says it's 500,000 words long because the shellyex found the Federation language irrational and they wanted to avoid future misunderstanding 500,000 words is like a thousand pages single space

[01:02:27] like that's huge. Maybe it would have been interesting if at this point well so probably again outside the scope of the episode but that rather than I guess English which it's written in the shellyex if they learn multiple Federation languages were like actually

[01:02:43] Vulcan and then they have to go find that guy who's playing viola at the beginning of the episode and it turns out he has like a major role they're like hey you're the only Vulcan other ship right now can you like interpret this language for us?

[01:02:57] They gotta bring back Luton and Solar get Susie Placin back oh yes like darkest lore course they forgot about her she's always with the ship well it's been mentioned her my name for the rest of the show but yeah so riker calls to the captain they have

[01:03:12] injuries updated the shellyex ship so Picard requests face-to-face negotiations which he says they are entitled to under paragraph 653 sub-paragraph 9 so the shellyex are like yes we will face to face negotiate with you and then just hang out. So the shellyex are like they're like evil space lawyers

[01:03:31] they're at uh... argyrian's house which is very it's a company little house and can't were asked data if they will be left alone once the Federation resettles them i data says that that they will if that's what they want so can't trust now on board

[01:03:44] so they just need to convince gochevain who has a lot of supporters and argyrian kind of tries to show to say to kentro like you do too like people listen to you

[01:03:55] but gochevain at this point enters and he's like yeah don't forget that i have a lot of supporters and he says he's disappointed he's like i thought we settled this but like they didn't settle anything the way they settled it was he said the conversation is done

[01:04:10] but he did not actually hear what anyone else was thinking. Like a leadership skill there is not is not great and then he just assaults data like straight up his apps with this beam of energy

[01:04:19] yeah and data like just falls over and harrytas like you killed him gochevain's like no I just shut down a machine and then he tells everyone to go home when he's like you'll see that

[01:04:30] i'm right argyna is not convinced and she sort of gets out another piece of equipment and starts examining an unconscious data. What he's like i killed no one is that because he doesn't

[01:04:42] consider data a life for them because he knows that he'll be deactivated data and i wasn't sure. I thought it was the first one that he does and consider data to be a person

[01:04:52] much like the shelly actone consider humans to be people. Yeah yeah. We've intercepted the shelly act vessel and i like the design of it it's like it's a classic kind of generic star trek

[01:05:03] looking freighter type ship. I think it actually was used in like a original series movie or something it's a it's a reuse. I believe it's peace of a vessel that appears in the beginning of Star Trek 3

[01:05:15] the search for spot where they're selling the genesis secrets to the clingons. I think that's that ship is probably pieces of it are but it looks fun. It's a fun looking like very steam punky

[01:05:26] pipey looking ship. Yeah it looks it looks a little out of place with like TNG sleekness but i do like it. Totally. I do like it. Yeah so Picard and Troy be aboard and Picard says

[01:05:37] that they will comply with the request to move the colonists they just need to tell it. Can we talk a little bit about what the interior of the ship looks like? Then i doesn't really look like anything

[01:05:46] it's kind of this black void. It's so dark and then there are these pieces of glass hanging from the ceiling. The shelly act is kind of inside the pieces of glass like it's some kind of command

[01:05:58] console made of crystals or glass or stuff. Yeah but yeah it's so dark like they yeah there's a note very little detail on it because just black. So the shelly act director says that the given

[01:06:09] time has elapsed and the ship carries the membership and they will proceed with debarcation. Yeah it's all very cold and technical selling. Yeah so Troy is like come on like these people they're not going to interfere with your plans and Picard tries to explain about like timing

[01:06:28] shelly act is just they're just reading the treaty. They're like no you are in violation of the treaty which says that unwanted life forms on H class worlds can be removed at the discretion

[01:06:39] of the shelly act corporate which is a ridiculous thing to have in the treaty. Let's just maybe start with that like yeah i suppose that during the legal negotiations with the hundreds of people from the Federation they were like well this will never become a problem because we're

[01:06:54] never going to put people on any of these worlds. But it's still ridiculous like that should never be part of a treaty and Picard is like i'm not arguing whether we are in violation of the treaty.

[01:07:10] We are in violation of the treaty and we will fix it we just need more time and the shell act is like well we'll save you time we'll eradicate the human investigation for you. Yeah that's literally how they phrase it now Picard gets re-angryed he's like they're not

[01:07:25] firm and shelly act says that intelligent converses impossible and then transports Troy Picard back to the enterprise literally beams him back with their own transporters right to their own bridge. Again in the middle of Picard sent it. Yeah which I don't think he's appreciating at this point.

[01:07:40] Back at Ardrian's house data wakes up and explains that his diagnostic circuits are able to repair of any male function so he's basically rebooted himself. Ardrian is upset because it seems that everyone just caved to go shiven and she's like i guess people's words don't really mean

[01:07:54] very much and data's like oh you're right words don't mean very much we need to use actions. Yeah we might have to find some kind of demonstration. Data uses his own neuro some processors to create a servo circuit to make the phaser work

[01:08:09] despite the radiation. Yeah so this was also apparently a rewrite from the original script originally phasers did work you may recall the beginning of the episode they talked about like interferes with like communications phasers sensors and transporters but originally it didn't interfere

[01:08:28] with phasers but it was just that data didn't want to use violence. So I feel like that perhaps later been more interesting. Yeah it gives data more choices to make that being that circumstance

[01:08:41] by any way he pulls out like a little circuit from his arm which happens to fit perfectly inside of the phaser. It's handy and now basically Ardrian says that he has made a smarter phaser that can work

[01:08:53] in the radiation. Yes. And he tells Ardrian to tell Gosha that he's heading to the pumping station and is going to destroy the aqueduct. Yeah he knows a message that's gonna get Gosha

[01:09:02] into come for share. Let's write. So on the bridge the enterprise and the shelly hacker basically knows to know as an advocate calls for a yellow alert and tells Riker to match any move the vessel

[01:09:16] Ricardo Hale's the shelly ag and tells them that they will have to get past the enterprise to get to the colony then closes channels and that's like okay we've been being beaten over the head

[01:09:26] by this treaty for three days. Let's see if we can find something inside of it to turn to our own advantage. So let's become legal experts now or so. Yeah it is it was a little funny to me the way he's like

[01:09:36] let me let me take a look at this treaty like I'm sorry is this the first time you're looking at this I guess not because he didn't know that there is there is room in it you cited it before

[01:09:45] but I guess they want to become like this much more familiar with it in this case. But it is interesting that he puts himself like between himself and the ship because what if they now get into

[01:09:55] like a firefight like are they gonna go and war now as he changing his mind over this he's doing everything he can to protect that colony. Yeah which I appreciate it and again to drop

[01:10:06] parallels to things that are happening in the world right now. I mean I think that one of the big issues is that people the powerful nations are not doing that right now. Yeah like yeah you

[01:10:20] do need to stand up to the people who are trying to eradicate a group of people from from a location. You can't just be like oh please don't you actually have to take action to stop.

[01:10:32] Yeah we're building the situations complex so I guess we're in all of this like mass deaths yeah no. So no he's like no I'm gonna put my ship in front of yours and we are going to have this

[01:10:41] talk. Yeah so we're going to talk about it. So data shows up they have like people protecting the pumping station so there's four people there with guards and they've got their their little

[01:10:50] rifles. Data just appears up from behind one of the steps and like Xaps all four of them they'll get stunned and then he says this is the stunned setting and then he's like this is not and he

[01:10:59] jacks up the power of the phaser shoots the aqueduct and you can actually see the beam of energy travel all through all the piping all the way back to the top of the mountain and like

[01:11:07] blowing up pumps and stuff along the way. I want to point out this is the first time we're seeing the new phaser. Oh yeah this isn't the rowdy phaser in your work. No longer looks like a dustbuster.

[01:11:16] Yeah I miss dustbuster phaser. This is a much more reasonably sized hand weapon I guess. Yeah didn't think of that I guess we get a pretty close lookup at it I wonder that's one of the

[01:11:27] reasons why they did that part of the like hey let's show off our new phaser. Yeah he says that he could reduce the whole station to a pile of debris and that's not even the most powerful setting

[01:11:35] on the phaser and that's he's one and right with a single weapon not like not like the hundreds of shelly act with more powerful weapons and then even then the shelly act can just blow up the whole

[01:11:46] colony from orbit. He's like you will die without it with never having seen the faces of your killers. Which again is very close to home right now. Yes yeah. So Kentor says to go

[01:12:00] Shivan there are other places. There are other challenges and then he and Harry to both walk off. Basically saying I mean I think basically communicating like we as a people are not reliant on this particular space that we have. We can continue which I do think is important.

[01:12:22] Like that that is true that leaving your home does not take everything away from you. That doesn't mean it's okay to remove someone from their home at all. But it is important to remember that

[01:12:35] if you do have to leave your home you can still maintain your traditions and culture and relationships. I think it's telling that Kentor says this because they've been kind of hinting

[01:12:46] at the fact that he is another leader figure but they're kind of just waiting for him to step up a little bit and he sees this as his moment so that's when he openly calls out go Shivan in the

[01:12:55] scene and it's like he's pretty emotional about it. There's other places, other challenges and then walks away and I think that shows the shift in the balance of favor to Lord Go Shivan. So now Go Shivan has a change of heart. Do you feel that this is realistic?

[01:13:11] I mean I think that yeah like the demonstration is more effective than the words and actually seeing like oh he was able to do that and we were not able to defend ourselves and we won't be

[01:13:25] able to defend ourselves if someone comes at us from orbit. This exchange between Go Shivan and data I actually remember very viscerally from my childhood where Go Shivan says like I really was willing to stay here and die for the colony and data says that this

[01:13:44] aqueduct is just a thing and things can be replaced but lives cannot and I feel like that is something that often gets sort of said things can be replaced but people can't eat and it's true

[01:14:00] and at the same time I think it again ignores the trauma of losing everything that you have as a trauma. And especially if it can't be replaced right? Yeah maybe because of the world you can't afford

[01:14:17] to replace something or they are precious and never replaceable. I mean I can just think if I look around where I live like there are a lot of things that I am reliant on. Sure. Like my stove

[01:14:29] or my microwave or my fridge those are just things but if I didn't have them my life would be a lot more difficult than it is. Then this is the standpoint that like this the place of rationality

[01:14:41] that did data says that he's coming from and I think that the episode is written around is that you know lives are not stuff these is more this is more valuable but there's more of an

[01:14:50] overlap I think of the intertwining of our lives and the amount of effort we've put into something and what it means to us and tradition and history and I think Go Shivan folds quickly here

[01:15:00] like as that as you change is really fast but I always felt like yeah it is after that big demonstration but it's also near the end of the episode we get to that point where like

[01:15:08] everything is fine and we're going to go now but we still figure out how to get more time because we haven't got that yet so we need to figure out the time of how to get them off the point. Yeah so

[01:15:16] writer and orphaned Picard are looking over the treaty at Troy as well they're looking over the treaty and warfers like this is hopeless fighting would be valuable yeah of course

[01:15:25] works gonna say that I have to read and writer gives it like the funniest look like he just kind of looks at him for a few seconds and like I feel like what's going through his head it's like

[01:15:34] wow that really is your solution to everything. Yeah I'm a writer but I get to that point sometimes he's not far behind where warball is. Yeah it's true I think it's why they get along

[01:15:43] so Picard fights something he's looking at the treaty and something comes out there around like arbitration and he's like that's it and he walks over and he says pursuant to paragraph 1290 you formally request third party arbitration of the dispute. Can I just say that that is

[01:15:59] wild that that is in the treaty that any dispute even when as Picard has said they are the ones who are in violation of the treaty you could just be like I want this arbitrated and I'm

[01:16:10] going to pick someone who is hibernating for six months like that is such a funny thing to have in the treaty. Something the Federation made sure got it there. They're like we know we're

[01:16:20] gonna have problems with these people so we needed out at any point for any problem we have even if we are in the wrong we can request arbitration. So the shelliac they are to the letter of

[01:16:31] the law so they're like you have the right. Picard says that they're going to name again as is their right the Grizzellus to arbitrate but unfortunately the Grizzellus are currently in a

[01:16:42] hibernation cycle so they will only be able to settle the matter in six months when they wake up. Yeah and so Picard asks that they want to wait or give the enterprise three weeks and then the

[01:16:53] shelliac are like we could brooked oh delay and then Picard is like well so this tree is as it abades and the shelliac is like wait and that he actually tells work this time to hang up

[01:17:01] on the shelliac. Yeah and records like you enjoyed that Picard is like yeah of course I enjoyed that. You think they're damn right. They've cut me off twice once with a transporter like yes

[01:17:15] like enjoy that. Yes so worse says that the shelliac are healing them and now what happens is one of my favorite things to ever happen and start track the next generation. Picard takes the time

[01:17:26] he walks across the bridge slowly and the camera just follows him walk over him on across the bridge. He looks at the dedication plaque of the enterprise kind of runs his finger along the top of it

[01:17:37] to like brush off some dust. He walks back toward the center of the bridge waits a few more moments that he's like unscreened. It just will make the shelliac wait. I love it. So the shelliac

[01:17:48] tells Picard that they can have their three weeks. Picard's like thank you and then they just close the channel. Yeah. Then the forge enters he tells Picard that they can modify the transporters.

[01:18:03] It's really exciting. Picard is like oh great he's like it'll take 15 years and a research team of 100 but then we'll be able to do it. We'll post both of our minds. We have we figured out. Now

[01:18:13] Dana is back in his shuttle and he's getting ready to leave and our dream approaches and says that the evacuation plan is going well. And he says that he's very grateful for his assistance and she's

[01:18:22] happy because that means that he won't forget her. Yeah. And Dana says like the most android possible thing he's like you're right I won't forget you because I don't forget anything. Right. I'll

[01:18:32] remember everything about this. Yeah and she's like I don't yeah it's probably not what she was going for. She she asks if he has feelings for her. Yeah just do you? He feelings for me at all

[01:18:43] that he's like I have no feelings of any kind but then kiss is her anyway when she seems disappointed. Yeah and she realizes that this again is just like he was just being rational. He saw that

[01:18:53] she was upset and was like maybe this will cheer you up. And then he just goes. He just like walks in the shuttle it doesn't take goodbye. He just like sits in the shuttle the door starts to close

[01:19:01] and then she's loaded she's like bye she kind of says it through the window and that we don't see our journey and ever again unfortunately. Back in the ready room data enters and Picard is

[01:19:11] listening to a recording of his concert he says the good doctor was kind enough to provide a recording of the concert that Picard missed I think this is like a nice showing that data

[01:19:24] thought Picard was leaving because he was so unimpressed with just the beginning of data's concert but but now he sees oh no he actually wanted to listen to it. Yeah it's very sweet.

[01:19:35] Picard did that and that he's listening to it as he as it comes back in. Picard says that his performance show was feeling which is an interesting contrast of what data just said being

[01:19:45] down on the planet. Yeah and and data's like I don't actually have any feeling like I was just imitating Yasha hyphids and Trink a Broncan. Yasha hyphids is or was a classical violinist throughout

[01:20:00] the 20th century I think he died in the like in the mid 80s like 87 or something like this Trink a Broncan is not an actual musician so this is someone born post now. Classic Star Trek

[01:20:15] they like listen if you're listening places that people have been to it's usually like one or two real places and then one planet somewhere in the generation or like with their mentioning people

[01:20:24] it'll be like two humans and then one alien fiction also just try to tie the history to like down. Yeah I love I love when they do that. But Picard points out that actually like no there

[01:20:34] is some of data in this because he's the one who chose these two musicians and apparently they have very different styles and techniques but data managed to combine those successfully. Yeah and data realizes that he's learning to be creative when necessary and then Picard

[01:20:49] just says I look forward to your next concert. What does really nice sounds so nice things and then that's the end of the episode. See Enterprise flies away. We saved the day. We saved the

[01:20:59] day. Data had some growth we avoided any uncomfortable conversations about displacement. Do you have any any other thoughts on this one mat? There's a lot of stuff going on here I think because of everything

[01:21:10] that we talked about going on in a world of the wider context and I really do like this episode and certainly you could have more conversation around the ethics of displacement and I wonder if

[01:21:22] the writers saw that there was more room for these kinds of conversations in an episode like this because it isn't the first time we find an episode that's around displacement or a movie but we

[01:21:32] look at it from different angles each time and how that works. Yeah I think one thing actually that I was thinking of so I know this is a little off topic but I noticed you recently had the

[01:21:44] or there was recently the Trek Tox virtual conference which we talked about in a previous episode and you talked about I know in the panel that you did if I listened to it recently because it's also

[01:21:56] one your other podcasts. Yeah you talked about the discussion that they had on the Tovix panel. Right and I actually watched that panel. Tovix, threading when he was not watched Voyager,

[01:22:06] is about a small spoiler for you but it's about an episode of or tovix is an episode of Voyager where two characters, two Valk and Nealix because of a transporter accident they meld together

[01:22:18] and become one person who was called Tovix. Tovix is his own person with relationships with people and at the end of the episode Captain Janeway makes the decision to separate them and in effect

[01:22:33] kill Tovix at the expense of Tovix and Nealix. I remember in that panel I think it was Robert Duncan McNeal, played Tompierre, said that he felt like Tovix could have been the one to make

[01:22:46] that decision to sacrifice himself and the writer of that episode was like no but then that would lower the stakes too much. Yeah I think it was Lisa Lisa Clink was on that panel and she was talking

[01:22:57] about being in the writers room for it. Yeah and what I thought was so interesting was I really feel like if that had been a TNG episode and if that had come out like now or sorry not now but

[01:23:12] like in the time of when this episode came out like if that had come out in the late 80s or perhaps the early 90s it would have been Tovix making the decision because they didn't put their characters

[01:23:25] through having to make those decisions but the audience might disagree with. Okay so you feel like that's it's the storytelling involved over time. I think so because yeah like the fact that they

[01:23:36] had Janeway make that decision is just so contrary to all kinds of things that happen in TNG where it's like we're gonna have this difficult decision oh but we don't have to make that decision anymore

[01:23:48] as something has gotten in the way or has made it so that the decision is made for us. Kind of taking away at the last moment or something. Exactly and I think this is sort of an example

[01:23:58] of not quite that but of like where we could have a really difficult conversation but we're not going to but then as the show of all they did have more difficult conversations and acknowledged that the Federation is not perfect. Starfleet is not perfect people sometimes have to weigh

[01:24:16] two very uncomfortable things and come up with something that is not going to be an easy comfortable solution. Yeah in a way this might be like a predecessor like a precursor to the

[01:24:27] conversations that come up around the Machi. Yes. Later on in in further in other seasons so we don't we don't just drop this challenge I mean it ends up being put to the characters again. Yeah just

[01:24:38] not in this episode. And not in this way and in fact like it's one of the things that I find the most revealing and also disappointing about the card as a character is how he handles that

[01:24:49] in the future but those will be for future episodes of the podcast. Oh yeah I think we said all that I have to say on this one. All right well thank you so much for listening to this episode

[01:24:58] of With The First Link if you liked what you heard please feel free to leave us a five star rating and a review on Apple Podcasts or your podcast provider of choice. Our cover art was created

[01:25:08] by Nathan Nund and you can find more of his work at NathanNund.ca. Our theme song is an amazing adventure by Flame Lion Studio. You can follow us on Instagram and on Twitter at First Link Pod or

[01:25:21] send us an email at firstlinkpod at gmail.com to tell us whether you trust computers or humans or if you want to have a more difficult conversation about displacement you can email us about that

[01:25:35] I'm Ruthie and I'm Matthew and if you have a lot of reading to do for your studying don't invite worth as your study buddy.