This week Jessie Gender joins us to talk trek! We review "Die Trying", talk about transgender representation in Trek, ship two characters and read your answers to the question of the week: Which Starfleet officer would you name a ship after and why? We also have an announcement at the end of the show...and that's a juicy dangler!
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[00:00:00] Guck it up!
[00:00:30] Welcome to Infinite Trek, where we cover everything Star Trek.
[00:00:40] From animated to live action, comics to novels, from games to real-life tech.
[00:00:45] If it's Star Trek or even Star Trek adjacent, it's here.
[00:00:49] So get ready to talk about Trek no matter what your knowledge level is.
[00:00:52] Whether you've been watching since the 1960s or just discovered Star Trek 47 minutes
[00:00:58] ago, we welcome you.
[00:01:04] Hello everyone.
[00:01:06] Hello.
[00:01:08] Hi, special date.
[00:01:11] Jesse Jenner is here to go over.
[00:01:14] I guess she's saying yes.
[00:01:17] Where's the framing ever mastered our intros?
[00:01:21] Yeah, awkward is our thing.
[00:01:23] Yeah, yeah, that's my entire life is just awkward.
[00:01:27] Say, name that's my mutant power.
[00:01:32] This function is our way, like whatever they have.
[00:01:35] Yeah, we just accepted the destruction.
[00:01:38] We haven't.
[00:01:43] Sorry, I had to be done.
[00:01:44] Yes, exactly.
[00:01:46] What we still did it done anyways lines for the rest of the show.
[00:01:50] Yes, that's just keep.
[00:01:52] I mean, that's that could be a whole episode is just us.
[00:01:55] We're being great.
[00:01:58] It's like, I'd like to hear those stories like.
[00:02:01] Okay, did anybody I'm going to go on a sidetrack of this?
[00:02:04] Is it sound like really bad ADR?
[00:02:06] They're like, she's going on.
[00:02:07] I'll say I'd love to hear those stories.
[00:02:09] It's like a weird different tone like she's walking out the door or something.
[00:02:13] I'd love to hear those stories.
[00:02:16] Yeah.
[00:02:17] The boom mic was like 50 feet away when they recorded that.
[00:02:22] But we just boost it with the yeah, exactly.
[00:02:26] But it was great.
[00:02:28] Well, we should probably backtrack a little bit and say hello to everybody.
[00:02:33] I'm Aaron Harvey.
[00:02:33] We have Brandy, Jackola down there.
[00:02:37] And like I said today, guess our Jesse's gender.
[00:02:41] Jesse's gender is that we see gender my one gender.
[00:02:45] My one gender is the guest star.
[00:02:49] I'm going to go away now.
[00:02:52] It's been a long long road getting from.
[00:02:59] Don't make me sing and don't make me sing because I will.
[00:03:03] No, you know, I will join you.
[00:03:05] I will join you.
[00:03:07] And I'll just sort of.
[00:03:10] Hey, I got the annexed one ready and waiting right here.
[00:03:14] So noise.
[00:03:16] I have a little or when I have like a, you know, your standard.
[00:03:20] Time not tiny that regular sized and I see my ship.
[00:03:24] Like I don't have that one out right now.
[00:03:26] Big and spirit, it's big and spirit.
[00:03:28] Yes.
[00:03:28] I love it.
[00:03:29] I love it.
[00:03:31] So today we are going to talk about die trying the latest episode of discovery as
[00:03:37] well as last week we didn't really go too much into a dearer and gray.
[00:03:42] So with Jesse being here, I thought this would be a perfect opportunity to kind
[00:03:46] of just dive into that a little bit.
[00:03:48] Talk about pronouns that people are having confusion with the characters and
[00:03:52] actors.
[00:03:54] And even I sometimes just like, okay, what did I say that right?
[00:03:58] I don't.
[00:03:59] I stay at wrong too.
[00:04:00] So like.
[00:04:02] They're all figured out together.
[00:04:04] The fact that everybody's learning to me is just really great though.
[00:04:07] It's just it feels it feels like I don't know.
[00:04:10] It's just it's opening the door that needed to be opened and.
[00:04:13] Yeah, throwing it wide open and putting a door stop under it.
[00:04:17] So it stays open like nearly the door off.
[00:04:23] Yeah, breaking the door off completely.
[00:04:25] There's no more door.
[00:04:26] Yes.
[00:04:26] That's that's it.
[00:04:27] Exactly.
[00:04:28] We'll get a screen.
[00:04:29] It'll be a screen door.
[00:04:31] Not even a screen.
[00:04:32] No.
[00:04:34] Nothing.
[00:04:34] Anyone comes in.
[00:04:35] Anyone goes out.
[00:04:37] I feel like this metaphor might have followed a part of.
[00:04:40] I know I'm so sorry.
[00:04:41] I always been doing it for everybody.
[00:04:43] It's great.
[00:04:44] It's great.
[00:04:45] That's just kill every metaphor or into a direction that is nowhere near what we were
[00:04:49] headed.
[00:04:50] So think of all the similes who gave their lives.
[00:04:55] I'm just I'm saying this because you know, I was just talking about this on the
[00:04:59] Vedic assembly.
[00:05:02] Which is it will be on next week.
[00:05:03] Yeah.
[00:05:04] Next week.
[00:05:05] So I'm just over around all the shows.
[00:05:07] Yeah.
[00:05:08] And we love it.
[00:05:09] Yeah, it was I was talking about because you know, totally not appropriate for
[00:05:14] the things we're talking about now.
[00:05:15] But they were expressing how nobody liked Connolly and why would Pike tolerate
[00:05:22] him?
[00:05:23] And I'm like, um, she didn't tolerate him.
[00:05:25] Did you not notice him digging?
[00:05:27] Econnolly every second that he could with the whole think how many stillables
[00:05:32] gave their lives?
[00:05:33] I'm like, that's a direct dig.
[00:05:35] Yeah.
[00:05:37] That too.
[00:05:38] And then also the sad thing too, there's a there's a book called The Enterprise War
[00:05:42] that's sort of set it up.
[00:05:45] It's a good one.
[00:05:45] I enjoy it.
[00:05:46] But they flesh out Connolly and that and I'm like, Oh, now I actually because he
[00:05:49] actually becomes like a semi decent human being in that book.
[00:05:52] So I've rewatched that episode.
[00:05:54] I'm like, Oh, I feel bad that Connolly dies still a jerk to burn them.
[00:05:57] But I feel a little little worse about it.
[00:06:00] Well, you know, that's the things like you can be a good person and still have
[00:06:04] flaws.
[00:06:06] And the thing is all he showed us was his flaws.
[00:06:08] Yeah, he's a jerk that doesn't mean he should die for it.
[00:06:12] No, no, but not following orders was what got him killed.
[00:06:17] Yeah.
[00:06:17] So yeah, it doesn't get that nice fancy, uh, that nice fancy funeral though
[00:06:21] that are Ariane God's.
[00:06:24] There was really nothing.
[00:06:28] I think where would they, how would they find the body?
[00:06:32] Grav, he was really weird up in there.
[00:06:34] Y'all.
[00:06:35] I just imagine the second episode that's using just starts with like, well,
[00:06:40] it was kind of a jerk.
[00:06:42] It was here.
[00:06:45] It was feel bad right?
[00:06:49] He was mean to cations.
[00:06:52] Oh, yeah, that's right.
[00:06:54] Yeah.
[00:06:54] Sorry.
[00:06:54] I'll stop you be meaning to the animated series characters and that no
[00:06:57] child.
[00:06:58] That's it.
[00:06:59] Can't, can't do it.
[00:07:00] You have to be yet to be only only polite.
[00:07:05] By contract for me at least.
[00:07:10] I just want to see a live action version of that one like bird thing with
[00:07:13] like the springy feet from.
[00:07:16] In bulk it or whatever.
[00:07:17] I think it's one of the episodes like the birds that goes.
[00:07:21] Yeah.
[00:07:21] They read me a lot of times.
[00:07:23] So we've seen it like in three different episodes.
[00:07:25] But yeah, it's, uh, it started out on, um,
[00:07:29] the infinite Vulcan and it was like a plant bird thing.
[00:07:33] It has like, yeah, I don't know.
[00:07:34] It reminds me of like springy.
[00:07:35] Um, what is it like?
[00:07:37] Uh, fern or no, I'm, though they actual the plant that sort of got like
[00:07:41] thrown on.
[00:07:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:07:43] I know which dog I don't know what's called either.
[00:07:45] I'm sorry.
[00:07:46] Yeah.
[00:07:46] I'll just talk talking.
[00:07:47] I'm no help at all.
[00:07:48] No, no.
[00:07:49] I don't know what to call you.
[00:07:50] I don't know.
[00:07:51] Don't look at me.
[00:07:52] I'd be cool to see that live action.
[00:07:54] Yeah.
[00:07:55] I still want to see a live action.
[00:07:56] Um, adosion.
[00:07:58] Um, yeah.
[00:07:59] Yeah.
[00:08:00] Yeah.
[00:08:01] That would be great.
[00:08:02] They did, um, there's a wonderful comic book series called new voyages,
[00:08:08] I think we're someone like they're like photo, like photo comics where they
[00:08:13] like, like, like, actually photos and they did a version of what, um,
[00:08:16] Eric's with Erics.
[00:08:18] Erics.
[00:08:18] It's an Erics.
[00:08:19] I would look like in live action.
[00:08:20] Actually, it looked pretty good.
[00:08:22] Yeah.
[00:08:22] Cool.
[00:08:23] Yeah.
[00:08:25] Uh, so before we began, I just want to
[00:08:27] really quick, we did a question of the week and I put it out there for the chat room.
[00:08:30] And then we have literally pages of answers.
[00:08:32] This is our, our most popular question ever.
[00:08:35] Uh, yes, it was question of the week was now that we've seen the USS Nogg,
[00:08:41] which is kind of in our background in mature, uh, which Starfleet officer would
[00:08:45] you name a ship after and why?
[00:08:48] So anybody in the chat room wants to jump in with that towards the end.
[00:08:52] Well, we're going to read some of the ones that we got online.
[00:08:55] And there's a real, there's some really good ones.
[00:08:57] We've all been C.C.
[00:08:58] on them.
[00:08:58] So it's been kind of fun.
[00:09:01] Um, and just, just some, some really creative and then some, I have a favorite.
[00:09:06] So I'm a brand.
[00:09:10] So and, and you, uh, Brandy, you said you have an idea.
[00:09:13] You have one.
[00:09:14] I do have an answer for that.
[00:09:15] I have one as well.
[00:09:16] Mine, mine's, mine's less, less fun than I think if you're the one that you told me,
[00:09:21] Aaron at the top, uh, before we started is that the one that you were using your
[00:09:25] own.
[00:09:26] That is mine.
[00:09:26] Those are just from, oh, yeah, I've got one that isn't quite as fun either.
[00:09:30] But I got to, okay.
[00:09:32] I took a question seriously.
[00:09:34] So why would I do that?
[00:09:37] Um, so yeah, and, uh, we also at the end of the show will have an announcement
[00:09:41] that we're making about a special event.
[00:09:45] So that's, that's called it plug.
[00:09:47] That's a tease you tease in me.
[00:09:49] We call it juicy danglers at my house.
[00:09:52] I feel like I feel awkward.
[00:09:59] I have, no, I have a, I have a lot of British friends and that's what they like to say.
[00:10:04] What it, you know, it's not, you're not teasing.
[00:10:06] It's a juicy dangler.
[00:10:08] So I mean, you're dangling waiting to find out what the juicy thing is.
[00:10:13] But it sounds dirty.
[00:10:15] I feel like that feeling it sounds better coming from like a British accent that you see dangla.
[00:10:20] Yeah.
[00:10:21] Exactly.
[00:10:21] Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:24] As I pervert it with my American accent, yeah.
[00:10:27] As we do everything Americans pervert everything.
[00:10:30] This is true.
[00:10:31] This is true.
[00:10:32] And yet still so afraid of sex.
[00:10:36] Sorry.
[00:10:38] Well, I'm with you.
[00:10:39] That's a theoretical culture and that actually works really well with, uh,
[00:10:44] segue into another section later on will do our head cannon corner.
[00:10:48] And Jesse had something that she put on on Twitter yesterday, which I think
[00:10:52] explore as a head cannon, which has to do with sexuality actually.
[00:10:56] Or possibly.
[00:11:00] Cool.
[00:11:01] Cool.
[00:11:02] More juicy danglers.
[00:11:02] Thank you.
[00:11:03] Yeah.
[00:11:04] All of them.
[00:11:05] Dangle all the juices.
[00:11:12] I don't know if you know.
[00:11:13] Dangle all over.
[00:11:14] That we're threatening it yet.
[00:11:16] Dangle all of the juices.
[00:11:17] People will tune in just to find out what the hell that means.
[00:11:21] Name that.
[00:11:22] This name make that the episode name, juicy danglers.
[00:11:26] I think so.
[00:11:27] Uh, it will take you have a little bit of business before we go on.
[00:11:30] Well, our sponsor is fan sets.
[00:11:32] We have fan set pins and I noticed that Brandy is wearing.
[00:11:35] Is she wearing non?
[00:11:37] I am wearing non because none.
[00:11:41] I know.
[00:11:42] We'll talk about her when we get into to die trying.
[00:11:46] I'm wearing a rick's for a reason because Eric because animated series is that
[00:11:53] your thing?
[00:11:54] I can't really contractually obligated for that to only be the thing I talk about.
[00:11:59] EBS because I um, hello, we heard you talking about discovery.
[00:12:02] We're going to, we're going to need you to tie that in the anime series somehow.
[00:12:06] That's, that's how that's how the internet works.
[00:12:07] You talk about one thing and that's all you talk about.
[00:12:09] I talk about anything other than Star Trek.
[00:12:11] It's just like what?
[00:12:12] Jesse, you have a personality outside of it.
[00:12:15] You know, that actually is just humanity.
[00:12:18] Yeah.
[00:12:19] Yeah.
[00:12:19] That's just humanity in general because growing up as a young Mormon.
[00:12:25] Um, I was pigeonholed into playing the piano and for about 15 years, nobody had any idea
[00:12:33] I could sing all the and I was not good at playing the piano.
[00:12:39] But I was really good at singing.
[00:12:42] And so finally when someone championed me and got me a solo in the Easter Contata,
[00:12:51] everybody's like, oh, you can sing.
[00:12:53] And then after that, nobody asked me to play piano ever again.
[00:12:56] And I was so grateful.
[00:12:58] So yeah, it's so weird.
[00:13:01] Like I'll mention like it is just one of those weird things.
[00:13:03] You just see crop up all the time.
[00:13:05] It's like if I even just slightly mentioned like, oh, yeah.
[00:13:09] I like, uh, I'd like Stargate or like the expansive like, oh, you like that?
[00:13:12] You need to do 20 videos on it right now today.
[00:13:15] When are you doing that?
[00:13:16] It's like, I got a, I got to live a life not much of one, but I got to live a life.
[00:13:22] Yeah.
[00:13:22] We were talking about that before the show is like, we don't sleep anymore.
[00:13:25] There's so many things everybody's doing that we're just like, we're awake.
[00:13:29] That's was weird.
[00:13:30] I'll get like a message from from Jesse it, like two in the morning.
[00:13:33] And I respond, you know, it's just like, okay.
[00:13:36] We're both up.
[00:13:38] Yeah, I insomnia is great.
[00:13:42] I think all three of us are.
[00:13:46] I've lived a terrible sleeper.
[00:13:48] I'm a terrible sleeper.
[00:13:50] And even if I fall asleep quickly, I never stay asleep.
[00:13:53] I will wake up multiple times a night and sometimes I'll wake up and that's just it.
[00:13:57] Doesn't matter if it's three in the morning, you're up for the day because your brain
[00:14:01] decided to say, Hey, let's think about what it would be like if you were dying
[00:14:05] of cancer.
[00:14:06] Oh, my father died of cancer.
[00:14:09] So it's a concern.
[00:14:11] You know, so I will, my brain will just go, Oh, would you like to think about that
[00:14:16] really embarrassing time and fifth grade that you'd like to forget?
[00:14:19] Let's go over that point by point in your brain.
[00:14:23] I hate you, brain.
[00:14:26] Definitely been there.
[00:14:27] Yeah.
[00:14:28] As Mag10 Mag in the chat room says like, Jesse's just go reviews come out incredibly early.
[00:14:34] They're like four seconds after the show is over.
[00:14:37] And hi, Mag10 Mag one of one of my community members.
[00:14:42] And we see her on or whoever the person I should not gender the person
[00:14:48] on the round.
[00:14:50] The wow, what is wrong with my brain?
[00:14:53] The end-ready room as well.
[00:14:58] And she asked, is there a pin for every character?
[00:15:01] And I think they're headed that way, right?
[00:15:04] Yeah.
[00:15:05] I'm sure that that's the representation that they want to have is something for every
[00:15:09] character.
[00:15:10] Yeah.
[00:15:10] I, I had about 40 of them right now.
[00:15:14] And because when I get into a thing, I really get into a thing and it's all Chris.
[00:15:19] Little feels fault.
[00:15:21] Thanks Chris.
[00:15:22] I'm not complaining actually.
[00:15:24] So right now I'm just collecting all the females.
[00:15:26] And then once I have all of the females, I will collect the men again.
[00:15:30] I do have some of the men, but I'm focusing on the ladies.
[00:15:33] See my, my rule whenever I go to like conventions or stuff, which who knows
[00:15:38] when that'll be, but my rule for myself is I have only allowed to buy two
[00:15:41] things as otherwise I'll spend too much money at conventions.
[00:15:44] I'm only allowed to buy Star Trek stuff or bad ass women.
[00:15:48] That's it.
[00:15:49] That's like if it's Star Trek or bad ass women, that's what I can buy anything
[00:15:51] else.
[00:15:52] I don't, I don't allow myself or else I'll spend way too much money.
[00:15:54] So if you go just to Star Trek conventions, you'll still spend way too much
[00:15:58] Yeah, that is that is the problem because I will, I will break my
[00:16:02] women only rule for Star Trek.
[00:16:04] But it's, I tried to still trend that way even with Star Trek.
[00:16:08] Yeah.
[00:16:09] Nice.
[00:16:10] And if you want to get your own fan set pins, we actually have a discount
[00:16:13] code for the audience, which is infinite trek all one word and it's good for
[00:16:17] 15% off your entire order.
[00:16:19] And you can even use it for like gift cards and things like that.
[00:16:22] So, so save some money on the, all the bad ass women pins.
[00:16:28] Or eventually we're going to have, have gray and Adira.
[00:16:32] So we're going to have different categories of people now and
[00:16:37] didn't outright.
[00:16:40] We know what you meant.
[00:16:43] Yeah, I should even amend my rule to say bad ass women or basically anyone
[00:16:46] who isn't like cis-hat white dude, which I love people.
[00:16:50] But agree, agree.
[00:16:53] I'm married to one.
[00:16:55] You got one.
[00:16:56] You got one.
[00:16:57] You got the ultimate pin set for that.
[00:16:59] I do.
[00:17:00] I do.
[00:17:01] Well, the funny thing is is that okay, I'm going to bring this up now because
[00:17:05] it's something that's been rallying around in my brain all day and it really,
[00:17:07] really annoys me.
[00:17:09] I hate when people say things like well, you know, they can do what they want,
[00:17:15] but they don't have to ram it down my throat.
[00:17:17] And that's usually in response to something being done by the LGBTQ community.
[00:17:23] And my response to that is you've been ramming your heterosexuality down
[00:17:29] their throats since the beginning of time.
[00:17:32] So why don't you check yourself before you wreck yourself?
[00:17:35] And I also love whenever that, whenever that comment comes up, it's like ramming
[00:17:38] a down a throat usually just in response to like an LGBTQ person or really
[00:17:42] of anyone of any identity just kind of like standing there.
[00:17:44] Yeah.
[00:17:45] Hi.
[00:17:46] I'm on the show now.
[00:17:48] Yeah, gay pride parades.
[00:17:49] Oh my God.
[00:17:50] People just I don't want them to just ram their lifestyles down my throat.
[00:17:54] Okay, you know what?
[00:17:55] Why don't you go away into back back into your safe little concave of only
[00:18:00] cis whitehead people and, you know, just stay away from the rest of us.
[00:18:07] Kind of on that.
[00:18:10] The people who are like, oh, Michael Burnham is just constantly saving,
[00:18:13] saving the day.
[00:18:14] Like you mean not like James T Kirk, who like literally every five
[00:18:18] Saturday, every.
[00:18:20] Yeah.
[00:18:21] I am there's like, well, you never got tired of Kirk.
[00:18:23] I'm like, I was tired of Kirk when I first met him.
[00:18:25] I just like, I was like, he was the guy I had to put up with to see all the
[00:18:29] other awesome characters on the show.
[00:18:31] So and I have never been a, I'm not that I hate the character, but now as an
[00:18:37] adult and from like age 13 on having really negative interactions with William
[00:18:42] Schattener, it sort of has colored my perception of Kirk unfortunately.
[00:18:47] That that that pulled out apart, but still they both equally say the day
[00:18:51] because there are main characters.
[00:18:52] That's that that's what happens.
[00:18:54] Yeah.
[00:18:55] No, yeah, definitely the Schattener part kind of makes it interesting.
[00:18:58] Like as you notice, I have a on this wall here.
[00:19:01] I have a picture with Schattener and I have a picture with a Sneakwell Martin
[00:19:04] Green.
[00:19:05] Schattener was literally just like kind of awkward and like didn't I just
[00:19:09] like, all right, we got a picture whatever Sneakwell Martin green was like the
[00:19:12] sweetest kindest human ever and like answer my questions and like she was
[00:19:16] so like, I thanked her and she was just like she clearly like, like took time to
[00:19:19] like register the feeling and being like, thank you.
[00:19:21] I appreciate like she's she is absolutely wonderful.
[00:19:24] So yeah, I definitely feel that there's something with like the discovery cast
[00:19:30] and crew that's just they think they're one of us as well.
[00:19:33] I mean, there's something.
[00:19:34] Yeah.
[00:19:35] And Mary Shifo is actually has been at our theater and she's actually going
[00:19:39] to be on a show tonight.
[00:19:41] Improved for on the in Pro theater Twitch channel, which I don't remember exactly.
[00:19:46] I think just look for in Pro theater or look at her Twitter handle.
[00:19:50] She's got the information there.
[00:19:52] But a bunch of them came to one of the improvised generation shows,
[00:19:56] which by the way is on following us at two o'clock improvised generation on screen.
[00:20:02] And they were just they were so nice and everybody was just you know,
[00:20:05] they hung out afterwards and they talked with everybody and it wasn't like,
[00:20:08] well, I'm a celebrity and I need to leave now because I put
[00:20:10] in my two minutes to to support my cast member.
[00:20:13] Goodbye.
[00:20:14] It was just fantastic and we actually joked it's like, Oh, if something happened
[00:20:17] to this room, like 80% of the discovery writers and there being nobody left
[00:20:23] is sort of like let's all spread out.
[00:20:26] Yeah, no, I had a similar experience.
[00:20:27] Like so I've also gotten the joy to get to know Mary T.
[00:20:31] for a little bit because we've been directing.
[00:20:33] She's been in some of my stuff.
[00:20:34] But the first time I ever met her was I was at a play in Los Angeles that had
[00:20:38] nothing to do with Star Trek.
[00:20:40] And I walked into a bar with my roommate and she was there like, Oh my God.
[00:20:45] She fo and I was like, I don't want to bother her.
[00:20:48] It's a bar like let her have her own night.
[00:20:50] But my roommate's like, no, we can go up and say hi because he's always the more
[00:20:53] like gung ho.
[00:20:54] Let's go say I to people sort of person which I appreciate because I need that
[00:20:57] sometimes in my life.
[00:20:59] And he we just started talking to her and I was just like, Hey,
[00:21:03] just want to say I love your work, your fantastic.
[00:21:05] And then we'd like she's like, No, let's talk about LaRelle.
[00:21:08] Like let's do like it was just it was just wonderful.
[00:21:10] She's like the sweetest to like actually like, No, you're one of us all
[00:21:14] nerd out with about LaRelle and how awesome LaRelle is with you.
[00:21:16] Like I don't need to be like the, Hey, let's let's back away and they're like,
[00:21:20] all right, nerd, whatever.
[00:21:23] Like right there with us.
[00:21:24] And that's why I love discovery so much.
[00:21:26] Like one of the things I've come to realize as I've gotten older is like,
[00:21:30] I love TV shows and I love TV shows even if I don't know much about the cast.
[00:21:34] But like if I know that the cast are like good people and caring people and
[00:21:38] like just wonderful people who actually care about the messages of their show,
[00:21:42] it just infinitely increases the enjoyment of this show for me.
[00:21:45] So agree completely, completely.
[00:21:49] Yep.
[00:21:50] Yes.
[00:21:52] They're it yeah.
[00:21:54] I just it's just something with a modern Star Trek people that just really impressed
[00:21:58] me and just you know, it's it's frustrating when you hear other people like,
[00:22:03] Oh, they don't like Star Trek.
[00:22:04] They don't know what they're doing.
[00:22:05] They need to lose their job.
[00:22:06] But so like why anybody would wish somebody to lose their job in any time,
[00:22:10] but it's definitely now which is ridiculous.
[00:22:13] So yeah, no, I appreciate so much that they seem to cast the show and
[00:22:19] the writers behind the show too for like being kind, caring people who can
[00:22:23] actually represent as people what Star Trek is about not just being good actors,
[00:22:27] which they all are right.
[00:22:29] But not just being good actors, but being people who can represent that off screen as
[00:22:33] well as on screen.
[00:22:33] I think that the credit to the cast and directors for for recognizing that they need
[00:22:38] to cast beautiful people, not just beautiful, beautiful souls, not just
[00:22:41] beautiful people and be good actors.
[00:22:43] Yeah.
[00:22:44] And I think Star Trek's in general been pretty lucky with that through that.
[00:22:47] Here's a few people are like, oh, yeah.
[00:22:52] Most people like like Aaron Eisenberg, who's just
[00:22:54] something to talk about.
[00:22:55] Yeah, it says Nog in the ship in the show.
[00:23:00] So I just, I feel really happy that we get a part of a fandom that actually
[00:23:09] where the show itself actually reflects back and there's a lot of mirror
[00:23:13] reflection back at each other, but it's not like there's no hypocriticalness
[00:23:17] to it, I guess.
[00:23:19] Yeah, which is very much appreciated.
[00:23:20] Like you still see people like George decay to this day.
[00:23:24] Fighting for stuff.
[00:23:25] Yeah, and it's just wonderful.
[00:23:28] Yeah.
[00:23:30] Should we move on to our main topic for the next day?
[00:23:33] Yeah.
[00:23:33] Okay.
[00:23:35] Do we want to start with Adira and Gray since we didn't kind of
[00:23:39] represent the last week?
[00:23:40] Okay.
[00:23:41] Yeah.
[00:23:42] So last week we kind of talked about PTSD.
[00:23:46] That was our big, big focus because we took that aspect of the episode.
[00:23:51] But we really didn't get much into the whole true thing.
[00:23:55] The only thing that we did mention is Adira's backstory is remarkably similar
[00:24:01] to my character from from night shift.
[00:24:05] So we're just like, well, that seems really similar.
[00:24:08] Okay.
[00:24:09] So I kind of feel like I almost can't talk about it objectively because
[00:24:12] I feel like I've, I've gone through a year of trying to what that experience
[00:24:16] be like and stuff like that.
[00:24:18] So I, and now there's so much from my own viewpoint that it's very weird.
[00:24:22] But I would love to hear from it from your viewpoint as somebody who is transgender
[00:24:29] how that one made you feel when you saw it and, and then what you think of that character.
[00:24:35] Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, I made several videos about it on my channel.
[00:24:42] And I have such like mixed feelings, but there are, like mixed and complex
[00:24:47] in I think really good ways.
[00:24:49] Like there's, there's nothing in the characters that I'm sort of like,
[00:24:53] oh, I hate this.
[00:24:54] I don't feel entirely represented and this is awful and offensive to me.
[00:24:57] There's nothing.
[00:24:58] Yeah, it's like I'm not like spinning at it.
[00:24:59] Like hurts me and dang it.
[00:25:04] Like there are things that concern me and, and I, I'm,
[00:25:09] where you just see where things go with with the character.
[00:25:12] But in a way that I have that I feel is very complex.
[00:25:15] And it's not like, oh, they just screwed it up.
[00:25:18] It's, it's just like, oh, I have many conflicting feelings and complex feelings about this,
[00:25:23] which is I think is great in what Star Trek should do is sort of give me these complex emotions.
[00:25:27] And, and even if they end up scrambling for making mistakes that I have problems with
[00:25:30] that I think they're trying to do it in a way that is trying to be respectful and loving,
[00:25:35] which is a great place to start from.
[00:25:36] And I think that's a great place to start conversations like this,
[00:25:38] even if it's not 100% what I would want.
[00:25:41] And I also should say, I'm not a monolith of the trans community.
[00:25:44] So things that I don't love may be things that people,
[00:25:47] other people in the transmitted love.
[00:25:50] But to get specific with it like,
[00:25:52] I, I think that like the way that they were able to just treat these characters as normal
[00:26:00] for who they are.
[00:26:01] Like the fact that, um,
[00:26:03] idea and, uh,
[00:26:05] Gray are members of the trans and non binary communities or,
[00:26:09] and or part of those communities is not just like brought up or like highlighted
[00:26:13] and focused on.
[00:26:14] And yet they still took the opportunity to talk and sort of use,
[00:26:18] like mess some issues in with like trans,
[00:26:21] uh, trans people and trans metaphor.
[00:26:23] Like the, the trail joining that Gray goes through is such a great representation
[00:26:28] of, uh, gender confirmation surgeries, for example,
[00:26:31] like the smile on his face when he's about to go through that surgery is like
[00:26:35] the exact same smile that I had when I,
[00:26:37] when I finally got to have my gender confirmation surgeries.
[00:26:40] Um, so there, there's that.
[00:26:42] And I, and I think my favorite part of that whole thing was a deora kind of,
[00:26:47] uh, expressing concerns or a frustrate.
[00:26:52] Not the, the like she, she felt like she couldn't keep up as she said with, uh,
[00:26:57] with Gray's transition and Gray becoming a joined Trill.
[00:27:00] And Gray's response to that is like it's not a race.
[00:27:04] We'll figure it out and you don't need to get it all right now,
[00:27:06] which is like the best thing I've ever seen, um,
[00:27:10] when talking about like transgender metaphor and transgender representation,
[00:27:14] because there's this idea that everyone should instantly know everything
[00:27:19] about the trans community.
[00:27:20] If you don't get the trans community, then trans people would like jump time to
[00:27:23] throw, get angry at you or be offended.
[00:27:25] And it's like no, we're all on a learning journey together.
[00:27:28] I didn't come birthed out of the womb,
[00:27:31] interestingly knowing everything about the trans community and about
[00:27:33] pronouns like we all learn together.
[00:27:35] And I really love that like Gray took the time to validate a deora's emotions
[00:27:40] that was like, no, you're, you're, it's totally understandable to be confused
[00:27:44] and scared and off put.
[00:27:46] But we'll get there.
[00:27:47] And I just, I loved that moment.
[00:27:50] And there's so many other wonderful, beautiful ones like the quilt.
[00:27:52] I think it's such a wonderful representation of their story,
[00:27:55] the many different lives that trans people can go through their story of these
[00:27:58] characters also referencing the AIDS quilt.
[00:28:00] That was such an important way to help the queer community in general,
[00:28:06] not this, the trans community, but the LGBT.
[00:28:07] I got that vibe to just being a gay man.
[00:28:09] It was just sort of like, oh, wow, that's exactly kind of a little bit of a reference
[00:28:13] to that, you know, exactly.
[00:28:15] So it's just beautiful there.
[00:28:18] And so I think all of that was wonderful.
[00:28:20] And I think mixing that in with my,
[00:28:23] my trepidation and concern is like, Oh, we do get to see Gray killed pretty
[00:28:29] quickly after he's introduced, which was kind of rough to watch.
[00:28:34] Like it's, this gets into my complex feelings about it because it's like,
[00:28:37] it's a beautiful scene.
[00:28:39] It's very well done.
[00:28:39] I understand why they chose to do it, to do it because it is,
[00:28:43] it is talking about all those things that I talked about the trauma of those
[00:28:47] moments, the trauma that the community faced,
[00:28:49] the trauma that we face personally and getting to the PTSD stuff that the rest
[00:28:52] the episode talked about.
[00:28:53] So I understand it.
[00:28:55] But also it was a little bit rough for me.
[00:28:57] And I'm sure rough for a lot of other trans people where you get this thing
[00:29:02] where they ask us to invest in these characters before the show.
[00:29:06] It's like, Hey, you're getting your trans representation.
[00:29:09] You're going to have Gray.
[00:29:10] He's going to be this really cool character.
[00:29:12] And then the first major moment that you get with him is this very traumatic
[00:29:16] moment, which is so rough because a lot of trans people do experience.
[00:29:22] That's kind of trauma as we talk about with like the AIDS crisis.
[00:29:26] But even today, there's a lot of like trans people are some of the most vulnerable
[00:29:30] groups, especially trans women of color.
[00:29:32] And so that trauma is very real and very present.
[00:29:35] And so it's a little bit frustrating sometimes to watch a show like Star Trek,
[00:29:40] which sometimes should be like a celebration.
[00:29:43] And so then we get this instant trauma moment with this character is a bit
[00:29:48] rough to watch.
[00:29:49] But again, I don't I'm not sitting here condemning it because it is in service
[00:29:54] of some really important points and really important stories and it's treating
[00:29:57] the character with respect and love.
[00:29:59] And also there's the wonderful asterisk of Gray seems to like he'll have some
[00:30:03] sort of presence on the show going forward through through the memory thing.
[00:30:08] So it's not like he's gone from the show.
[00:30:11] So I it's one of those like, I have been going just to sort of wrap out
[00:30:16] because I've been ranting for a very long time because I can rant forever about
[00:30:19] it. But it's like, I think it's so complex and evocative.
[00:30:25] And it's not perfect.
[00:30:26] And I do have hesitations, but there are hesitations that I think get that are
[00:30:30] deeper than I've been able to have with most shows because usually when I have
[00:30:34] hesitations like, oh, you really, really screwed up and it really hurts me and
[00:30:38] offends me like with Lovecraft Country did with their their two spirit
[00:30:45] character. Like really just defended me and hurt me.
[00:30:47] And I'm sure for that community was even worse the two spirit community.
[00:30:52] With this, I have concerns but they're concerns that are just really deep.
[00:30:57] And I really appreciate that discovery took the time to do that.
[00:31:00] So I have a theory that I have put forth before.
[00:31:07] I don't know if I've done it on this show though.
[00:31:10] I feel like Gray is not just interacting with memories.
[00:31:17] I feel that there is something new and different going on there.
[00:31:23] And that we are going to see a lot more of Gray and possibly other people might
[00:31:30] start saying Gray as well.
[00:31:33] I like that.
[00:31:35] I like that.
[00:31:35] That's my theory.
[00:31:38] Might have to do with the song from this episode too.
[00:31:40] I just thought about that too, actually.
[00:31:43] Yeah.
[00:31:44] That was interesting.
[00:31:45] The whole idea of this fragment of song that everyone knows,
[00:31:52] which my husband thinks may have had something to do with the burn,
[00:31:56] not necessarily having caused the burn in a malevolent way.
[00:32:03] But you know, there's still eight episodes.
[00:32:07] Yeah.
[00:32:08] To go that in so much story to be told, but you know, these are my early feelings.
[00:32:13] And I just feel like they're not going to waste this opportunity.
[00:32:18] They're not going to put this person on the show and then just, you know, that's not what they're doing.
[00:32:25] And I know from some articles that I've read that Alex Kurtzman and Michelle Paradise were constantly
[00:32:34] consulting with blue and with Ian about every aspect of the season and every aspect of their
[00:32:40] characters.
[00:32:41] And I was very, it was very interesting to me to find out that a dearest journey is actually kind
[00:32:48] of mirroring blues real life journey.
[00:32:51] Yeah.
[00:32:51] Because when they were first cast, they were not out to anyone, including their parents.
[00:32:57] And so figuring that out.
[00:33:00] Nine years old.
[00:33:01] They're so young.
[00:33:04] I feel like Oh God.
[00:33:07] Well, you know, if anyone can figure out their true selves at any point in their lifetime, more power to them.
[00:33:14] Yeah.
[00:33:14] Yeah.
[00:33:15] And being able to figure that out at the age that they did.
[00:33:19] So I look forward to what they're going to bring us and not to in any way negate any concerns because those
[00:33:27] concerns are absolutely valid.
[00:33:29] And you know, I hear them.
[00:33:31] I understand them.
[00:33:32] So I guess my attitude is just kind of like, well, let's see what happens.
[00:33:37] And if the end of the season doesn't prove that these concerns were alleviated, then have those concerns
[00:33:45] for next season too.
[00:33:48] It's a learning process.
[00:33:49] You know, and they don't have a trans or non-binary writer on the staff.
[00:33:54] And that's why they consulted so much with Ian and with blue.
[00:33:58] Yeah.
[00:33:59] And it's one of those like, as I said before and as you just mentioned, like it is a learning journey and like
[00:34:05] it doesn't negate the harm done.
[00:34:07] Like the other example that I will use to sort of like reference this is the killing of Culver in season one was
[00:34:15] was really rough and way, way, way worse than than gray because that was Culver's death.
[00:34:22] There's much more for shock value.
[00:34:24] But it was a very similar situation where they're like, invest in this character.
[00:34:26] Look, we finally got to gay character and then you kill him off is especially the person of color half
[00:34:33] of that couple is just it was really, really horrible.
[00:34:40] But the writers took that criticism and pushed it forward and brought Culver back and actually added
[00:34:47] weight to that and it informed his character to this day into a really beautiful way.
[00:34:53] And I'm glad that they recognize the mistakes, fix the mistake.
[00:34:58] But didn't like wipe away the mistake.
[00:35:02] They're saying like, no, that happened and it existed and it's a very real thing that this character has to deal with.
[00:35:07] And so I very much and it pushed him further to be like an even more beautiful human.
[00:35:13] And so it's one of those like, I it's we can't get anywhere if we don't acknowledge the mistakes and the faults
[00:35:23] of where we've been and we shouldn't like ignore them.
[00:35:26] We need to look at them and acknowledge them.
[00:35:29] But that doesn't mean that it has to hold us back or make us afraid from pushing forward because the easy
[00:35:34] thing for them to have done would have been like well, we made the mistake.
[00:35:37] We're not going to bring them back though because we don't want to we just we don't want to like recognize
[00:35:41] that we screwed up. We don't want to recognize that it was that it was offensive and we don't want to make
[00:35:46] make make have even the potential of making that mistake again.
[00:35:49] So it's been so easy to be like, well, we're not going to do another gay character.
[00:35:52] So they don't have to deal with this.
[00:35:53] It's like no, they they faced it head on and credit where credit is due.
[00:35:57] That's awesome.
[00:35:58] Yeah.
[00:35:59] This reminds me of a phenomenon that happened a lot in comic books and still kind of happens to this day.
[00:36:05] And that's the woman in the refrigerator.
[00:36:07] And if you don't understand that term basically, it was I don't remember which
[00:36:14] comment.
[00:36:16] I think you're probably right.
[00:36:17] Yeah.
[00:36:18] That a woman is killed off and stuffed in the refrigerator just to be motivation for the hero.
[00:36:25] And that still happens in comics way too often.
[00:36:29] Still happens in movies and television way too often.
[00:36:33] Deadpool 2.
[00:36:34] I'm talking to you right now.
[00:36:36] Killing off Vanessa in the beginning of the film.
[00:36:40] Yeah, and you don't get to and that's that's one where they try to have their
[00:36:46] cake and eat to and just like sort of ignore the fact because at the end of that movie,
[00:36:50] spoiler for Deadpool 2 is like, oh yeah, but she's brought back to life.
[00:36:53] We saved her.
[00:36:53] So we didn't really for just like, but you did though, you don't get to like do that
[00:36:57] story and then erase it at the end and and and and get like get Bont Brownie points
[00:37:02] where it's like, if you're going to do that, like you need to actually show that.
[00:37:06] Like again, showed a comparing to Culver.
[00:37:08] It's like when they did that with Colbert, they did bring him back, but it was an
[00:37:11] acknowledgement of the mistake that they made and they actually continued with it.
[00:37:15] Whereas in Deadpool 2, they're like, yeah, we're going to do this, but we'll like,
[00:37:18] we'll do this thing at the end so you can pat us on the back about it.
[00:37:22] No, didn't work for me.
[00:37:23] Yeah, it was very much like it was very much they knew.
[00:37:26] I think the difference is like they knew before the thing even went out what the criticism
[00:37:30] was going to be and and try to fix it.
[00:37:33] Whereas Colbert's like, Tara and Buffy the vampire slayer to inspire dark willow.
[00:37:38] God yes.
[00:37:39] I got my right up there up there.
[00:37:42] I got my pair on Willow.
[00:37:43] So yeah, I know that feeling.
[00:37:46] Yeah.
[00:37:46] It's just something that sis Whitehead been keep doing.
[00:37:50] Please stop it.
[00:37:51] Please stop it.
[00:37:55] Which for me is interesting because I had I was talking with somebody about this whole
[00:37:59] situation.
[00:37:59] They're like, well, you would never write something like that.
[00:38:01] I'm like, I kind of literally did and my back story of my character was my husband.
[00:38:08] But we were on a mission and I was critically injured and the only way to save me was
[00:38:12] to implant his symbiote, which means he would die.
[00:38:15] And so I ended up with the symbiote and the character died.
[00:38:19] But this was all before the show started much like Gray and and Adira because we didn't
[00:38:26] see and we saw a flashback, but that still happened narratively before we entered.
[00:38:31] We met the character.
[00:38:33] So it's kind of complex because it's like that was I didn't think of it as like killing
[00:38:38] off a gapers and it was just sort of that was it was an interesting like what would
[00:38:44] you be like to have the memories of your husband or loved one and see every argument
[00:38:49] from their viewpoint?
[00:38:51] And you know, that kind of thing.
[00:38:52] So I thought that was a lot to play with.
[00:38:54] And so I thought it wasn't great back, but maybe I didn't think about it well enough.
[00:38:57] I don't know.
[00:38:58] I mean, it's one of those things.
[00:38:59] It's like and it gets into like the weeds of all these conversations because the problem
[00:39:05] isn't necessarily with the use of the story element itself.
[00:39:10] Like in a vacuum, you can totally justify those story elements.
[00:39:14] Like for example, even in Star Trek, you had Cisco's wife being killed off was
[00:39:19] Fridge at the beginning of that show.
[00:39:21] And like that worked well and important as character and really pushed him forward to
[00:39:25] interesting character arcs throughout his entire run on the show.
[00:39:29] So in a vacuum, it's justifiable and interesting can be good things.
[00:39:32] It's just the issue of the cumulative effect of seeing this trope over and over and
[00:39:38] over and over again, throughout many media and always being directed at specific groups.
[00:39:42] Like so rarely would you see a guy be Fridge.
[00:39:46] So rarely would you see a straight person be Fridge.
[00:39:50] A straight cis white head dude be Fridge.
[00:39:52] It's always these other characters and so that's where we live in these stories or
[00:39:58] don't live in these stories as it were is just like, like, oh, we get killed off to
[00:40:03] be motivation for the for the for the cis wet cis wet.
[00:40:07] Yeah, I was just thinking what an interesting story it would be where the guy gets killed
[00:40:18] off and the woman goes on her vengeance quest, which I kindly kind of have experienced by
[00:40:25] playing a female character and fallout for because you see your husband be murdered.
[00:40:31] Your child's stolen and you spend the rest of the game trying to find that kid
[00:40:37] and take down the people who did this to you.
[00:40:40] And it's just really empowering like why would I ever want to play a male character?
[00:40:44] If I have a choice between a male and female character, why would I ever want to play
[00:40:48] the male character?
[00:40:49] Yeah, so there's this one of those things where I'm like, well, I should try it just
[00:40:55] once to see if there are different dialogue options like that.
[00:40:58] No, I don't care.
[00:41:00] Don't care.
[00:41:01] I have seen too much of the white cis head man journey.
[00:41:03] I am just fine with always being a lady.
[00:41:06] I remember on a castle, they had kind of that the idea that was the oh my gosh, I can't
[00:41:14] remember the main field lead, the woman.
[00:41:17] Beckett?
[00:41:18] Beckett, thank you.
[00:41:19] I think my brain went mariners or Beckett or just like I haven't seen.
[00:41:24] I had a friend in college who was obsessed with castle.
[00:41:27] So I only have like a vague awareness of it.
[00:41:29] She's like our fandom for Star Trek, she had for castle.
[00:41:32] So I was like vaguely aware of all the stuff on it.
[00:41:35] Her motivation is that her mother was killed.
[00:41:40] So it was still a woman who died but it was motivating another woman.
[00:41:44] So it's, it was one of those, it only came up as a cliffhanger for the end of a season.
[00:41:51] It was sort of in the background until it was like now it's important.
[00:41:55] So yeah, they also had like lots of fun Star Trek slash what is wow.
[00:42:04] What is wrong with me?
[00:42:05] Firefly, there's firefly friends.
[00:42:07] There are many nerdy references that come from Capitol himself because nerd.
[00:42:12] But they go to a comic book convention and they have basically their version of Star Trek
[00:42:16] which was on after that show on Fox.
[00:42:21] It was canceled.
[00:42:22] I love that.
[00:42:23] It was just sort of like, yeah.
[00:42:26] So yeah, so that was that was an interesting motivation there too.
[00:42:32] Just like I don't know what it just adds to the whole somebody dies to.
[00:42:38] Yeah, but it's more often than not a woman dying to.
[00:42:41] Yeah, so it's like it's a fine story and the other thing too.
[00:42:45] I should mention not just the cumulative effect but also like proportional effect.
[00:42:49] It's like you could probably show me a bunch of like dudes who have died in stories and
[00:42:52] media.
[00:42:53] It's just had white dudes who have died in stories and media.
[00:42:56] But it's like, but you also have a billion more of the characters to look to look at.
[00:43:00] Whereas like with queer and female characters and any minority community really at all.
[00:43:08] It's like we get like five characters at all throughout like all of media up until very
[00:43:14] recently and even now it's still not where it should be.
[00:43:17] And so you kill off like two of them and that's like 40% of the characters that we have.
[00:43:23] As opposed to like, oh, you kill off like for for cis-hat white dudes and there's like
[00:43:27] a bazillion more.
[00:43:28] So it just it means more when you kill off these types of characters.
[00:43:33] Yes.
[00:43:34] Thanks Nick.
[00:43:35] I will look for that video.
[00:43:37] I have a whole of nothing to the people who are listening after the fact because they
[00:43:43] can't see our chat.
[00:43:46] Um, also good to see you Nick by the way.
[00:43:51] Or like kind of ECU on wave and E.
[00:43:53] Yeah.
[00:43:54] Yeah.
[00:43:55] Let's see.
[00:43:57] Sorry, I just sort of stalled.
[00:43:59] That's okay.
[00:44:00] We had a moment where we were just all like yeah hard conversations.
[00:44:05] Yeah.
[00:44:06] It would they need to be had.
[00:44:07] They need to be had and they need to continue to be had.
[00:44:11] And this is why I love knowing.
[00:44:12] Yeah, no, that's right.
[00:44:13] And that's why I love Star Trek because these are the types of conversations that we
[00:44:17] get out of it like.
[00:44:18] Yes.
[00:44:19] This is my point.
[00:44:20] It's like, this is the type of conversation that the show engenders and I love that.
[00:44:25] That's why I love Star Trek.
[00:44:26] So I remember that.
[00:44:28] Yep.
[00:44:29] Yep.
[00:44:30] I lost my mind.
[00:44:32] Castle.
[00:44:33] What are you supposed to be?
[00:44:35] Space cowboy.
[00:44:36] Where are you that like five years ago?
[00:44:38] It's like referencing when he was on firefly.
[00:44:42] Yeah.
[00:44:43] That was great.
[00:44:44] Like the one scene that I've seen like that video that's all the firefly references.
[00:44:47] Yeah.
[00:44:48] Hands blue and he starts speaking Chinese like where did you learn that?
[00:44:52] It was like, I'm sick enough.
[00:44:54] Yeah.
[00:44:55] Yeah.
[00:44:56] There are no cows in space.
[00:44:59] It's true.
[00:45:00] There are no cows in space.
[00:45:01] Yeah.
[00:45:02] That we know of.
[00:45:03] Mm hmm.
[00:45:04] Oh wait, there is a spider cow thing.
[00:45:07] Oh, the spider cow.
[00:45:09] Yeah.
[00:45:10] The spider cow.
[00:45:12] Uh, you know, when you were talking about the music from the bird.
[00:45:17] Oh, absolutely.
[00:45:18] We should probably move into that.
[00:45:20] Yeah.
[00:45:21] Maybe it's the theme song from Enterprise.
[00:45:24] Don't even don't you dare play with my emotions that way.
[00:45:31] I would never do that.
[00:45:33] If they did, I would I would literally be crying with joy.
[00:45:37] Yeah.
[00:45:38] That's why I felt when I've avoided your J.
[00:45:40] I was like, oh, why cry?
[00:45:42] Actually, so let's dive into die trying which is the latest episode where we finally find starfleet.
[00:45:52] And a much better shape than I thought that we would, which is kind of.
[00:45:56] Yeah.
[00:45:57] Yeah.
[00:45:58] They are there small but scrappy and have some awesome looking ships.
[00:46:04] Yeah, it was just like the nerd gasm at the top of the episode was wonderful.
[00:46:09] We were experiencing what they were experiencing.
[00:46:11] And I kind of like likened it to this is their star trek.
[00:46:14] Yeah, look at that.
[00:46:15] Look at that.
[00:46:16] You know, so.
[00:46:17] I was I just and I love how long it goes for.
[00:46:20] It's like it's like five minutes of that.
[00:46:22] And I just I was watch I rewatched the episode last night with with a friend of mine.
[00:46:27] Just watching that moment and just like.
[00:46:29] It's still this beat.
[00:46:31] It's still this beat in the story is still just like.
[00:46:33] Oh, that's nerd out about this stuff.
[00:46:35] It just goes on for so long and I love every second.
[00:46:37] And they they beam over at the end when they send the three people over until easily.
[00:46:43] Like I don't think it was just so it was it was just great.
[00:46:48] I can't I can't watch that season that section enough like I don't.
[00:46:53] Part of me doesn't want to because if I keep watching it over and over again,
[00:46:56] like you lose some of that joy, I guess because we're competitive but.
[00:47:01] But yeah, no, just the the stammets and and the Tignotaro's character.
[00:47:08] What is Reno?
[00:47:09] Thank you.
[00:47:10] Thank you.
[00:47:11] Looking out the window and just, you know, gawking it with the same thing everybody else was was fantastic.
[00:47:17] I also love credit to Jeff Russo by the way the music during that sequence is wonderful.
[00:47:22] I loved it.
[00:47:24] It's actually it gets in the back of your head.
[00:47:26] It just sort of it's very.
[00:47:29] Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:30] Somebody said that they heard like a strain of Voyager's theme when it comes up but I don't hear it and I'm just.
[00:47:36] I have to go back and listen.
[00:47:37] Yeah, I'm going to have to listen carefully.
[00:47:39] I'm going to do it on headphones though because you can hear more things in a good set of headphones
[00:47:47] and you can out of your television.
[00:47:49] Yep.
[00:47:50] So yeah, my first one is greeners are not maybe the highest quality.
[00:47:55] They're not the highest res.
[00:47:57] Yeah, I get screeners.
[00:48:00] This is my first time having them actually know we had them for lower dead but this is this is my first time having them and it's.
[00:48:09] It's an experience because there are things where you see people talking online about things you like who want to say just wait.
[00:48:18] Oh, can I and you can't talk about it but it's honestly this episode for the first time ever made me want to have like a 60 inch TV so I could really see the detail of everything.
[00:48:34] Like I said, sorry.
[00:48:36] No, no, no, go.
[00:48:37] You want to say they had on the ready room like the behind the scenes video and it's interesting how much more detail is there until they add like the blue soup.
[00:48:46] Yeah, they're just like oh well hey can we just take a layer of that off so we can see more of the ship.
[00:48:53] There's not going to be great.
[00:48:56] Actually, we have a couple pictures of the ship we which are going to go on top of everybody I apologize.
[00:49:01] We have the the for more of actually just over pran team whoops.
[00:49:06] The 30 this is from by the way Joe Hilder, Hildbrand on.
[00:49:14] Twitter put them together even though I have.
[00:49:17] There you go.
[00:49:19] I was going to start to do this. I'm like well, this is already done. I'll just post it up and give him credit.
[00:49:24] So we have all the different types we have like kind of Constitution slash Armstrong.
[00:49:29] Which is very cool looking we've got the flying rain forest that's a flying rain forest.
[00:49:35] That was the other one I was going to put Aaron flying rain forest Harvey is my name.
[00:49:40] We got the Eisenberg class which of course was the tribute to Aaron Eisenberg.
[00:49:47] We have just a couple of different types and then of course there's the Voyager J and we have a little bit more of a detail that there's not it's hard to tell what they all look like together but you can kind of in your head glue it together with these little snippets and there's screens in the background that had Voyager on it and so it looks like a maybe a giant version of the intrepid.
[00:50:09] Yeah, it's like huge. It's just like the enterprise J which I'm saying.
[00:50:14] That's like what 100 years at that point. Oh yeah, it's in the 26th century so it's like 500 years old actually this person something ridiculous but um but I just remember like if you my favorite thing about the enterprise J is if you look at a scale of it compared to other star trick ships.
[00:50:31] Right enterprise D enterprise E enterprise J is like this big maybe they realize the ship that size maybe isn't the best idea.
[00:50:41] It's like they they you know every universe goes through there like we need to build ships gigantic for some reason phase like huge it's going to be a huge ship.
[00:50:52] A lot in star base basically yeah.
[00:50:57] But it seems like the the nacelles have some sort of like they echo some of those if you look at the Nacelle from the J and some of the ones the longer thinner ones they look sort of like that but the interesting thing about these nacelles are they are not literally attached to the ship.
[00:51:14] But they are they may have to be quantum locked or something has to be holding them because it's the point of that.
[00:51:19] Yeah, Ego Moss is going to have tons of fun trying to build those on champion.
[00:51:25] I wait like do we just put like you know translucent pegs in the middle but that's not going to look so great.
[00:51:30] Yeah, well that's what they did with the caron and the gumball in the caron for the miceelial son.
[00:51:37] So my guess is that's what they will do for these upcoming ships and they better put out these upcoming ships I want a USS nog do you hear me Ego Moss.
[00:51:48] They will they have to be they have to be and speaking of that I did a poster because I took all this.
[00:51:55] It's amazing to go with them together to like and I came pretty close after I saw the day after I made this I saw a punting that I can actually use but whatever.
[00:52:05] So yes, that was a picture of Aaron Eisenberg the last time he was in the makeup I believe it in Star Trek Las Vegas last year and you know it Aaron was a fellow transplant patient he had his kidney transplant at UCLA as I did so we we had similar.
[00:52:24] So we had a situation we had we talked to each other because we had like you know doctor issues and things like like why do we have to go in for blood test at this time because it's a mess or you know just things about that like what is your medication.
[00:52:38] Well not exactly the same but but similar situation so it was kind of cool and you know it was just he was such a great guy and I know that there were some people online he was saying it's like oh they should call it the USS Eisenberg this calling the dog is just like that's just not very.
[00:52:54] Something to the fact of it's it doesn't really honor him honors his character but one it's in universe so it's the Eisenberg class and the ship is the dog because dog was a character and we're assuming there was like the first for Enge captain.
[00:53:13] And Aaron loved that character it was just something he was so proud of and so I think if he had the choice he probably would choose to have it be called the nog and not the Eisenberg you know if they say we're going to put nog in here how do you want it done yeah.
[00:53:31] He did such a great job I mean I literally watched in into a paper moon or I feel the exact paper moon up so there is a picture.
[00:53:39] It's only a paper moon thank you I just watched it last night and he's he's just so excellent as that character has such like gave like such heart to to dog and it's just so wonderful to see in heartbreaking at times but he was he was just so good.
[00:53:56] Yeah I'm quiet because it makes me emotional.
[00:54:00] I'm trying to talk about the visitor I can't I can't do it without crying at some point so yeah no it's it's it's it's yeah I got me.
[00:54:09] Terry up there's that scene with him and Vic at the end and it just it it tears you apart especially in light of his passing because he's talking about dying there and it's just like oh this is scary and rough and he just he he showed every little bit of it and it shows like you know the thing I realize about that episode to rewatching it is really it's all about the side characters it's a it's a whole nog episode and then Vic as well and they those were two and we're not going to be so happy.
[00:54:39] The main cast members which was kind of a first for for Star Trek like the only other episode I can really think that that did this whole like not focus on the main characters was lower decks the actual TNG episode up until that point and even that's kind of like a dwarf.
[00:54:58] to a degree.
[00:55:01] So like just showing how much confidence the writers
[00:55:05] and the creators of the show had an errand
[00:55:07] to like carry that when he wasn't a main cast member.
[00:55:10] And at the time it even still being very, very young too.
[00:55:14] Like just shows how great of an actor he was.
[00:55:20] Yeah.
[00:55:22] I apologize my ear pods have like shut off
[00:55:26] and so the audio's coming from the theater.
[00:55:27] So if I sound weird, I don't know if I hopefully mean
[00:55:30] you've sound weird anyways.
[00:55:31] Yeah.
[00:55:32] I mean, this is different how?
[00:55:35] Yeah.
[00:55:35] Thanks.
[00:55:37] I'm just going to go away now.
[00:55:38] You two can.
[00:55:39] No, stay.
[00:55:41] Stay.
[00:55:42] You love me.
[00:55:43] But it sounds a little weird or echoey I apologize
[00:55:45] because I don't know.
[00:55:45] But you don't sound connected but it's obviously coming out
[00:55:49] of the speaker here.
[00:55:51] No, you don't sound all that different to me.
[00:55:53] Sounds funny.
[00:55:53] No, not at all.
[00:55:56] Okay, you know?
[00:55:58] Yeah.
[00:55:59] And the other thing that I pulled out of just the background
[00:56:04] and besides all the ships instead, there are a ton
[00:56:07] of stars in this floating rotunda with the planet map
[00:56:14] or something which I thought at first
[00:56:16] and I finally in the second watching
[00:56:17] I realized they said that they were treating people
[00:56:19] in the hallways because I'm like why is their hospital
[00:56:22] underneath the main rotunda?
[00:56:23] That's a really odd place to put it.
[00:56:25] Yeah.
[00:56:26] Oh, okay.
[00:56:26] It's just the lower got it.
[00:56:27] Okay.
[00:56:29] But yeah, so we have these charts that were just super dense
[00:56:34] and a lot of them are flipped backwards.
[00:56:36] So what I did is I went through
[00:56:39] and just sort of like flipped them in Photoshop
[00:56:41] and changed the audio or the audio.
[00:56:43] Changed the audio of it.
[00:56:45] Change the brightness and contrast
[00:56:47] and I got a pretty large list
[00:56:49] and I don't have to read all of them
[00:56:50] but there's a lot of deep space nine
[00:56:54] and a voyage or references which is kind of cool.
[00:56:56] We have like the one that I just popped up here,
[00:56:59] we've got the K's on clan forum, talax.
[00:57:03] What I kind of that white beam is like Okampa.
[00:57:07] So I think it moves and it looks like that's
[00:57:12] as what it could be.
[00:57:14] I think you're right.
[00:57:15] It makes sense.
[00:57:16] We have the four home world
[00:57:17] and that was the, those people that didn't like holograms
[00:57:21] and they were, I think that yeah, right, wasn't it?
[00:57:24] Then they, they, they, they,
[00:57:25] then into the, they were smuggling them across their border
[00:57:30] and Janeway and the main devork I had the back and forth.
[00:57:34] We had to say enough counterpoint.
[00:57:35] Yeah.
[00:57:37] We had the,
[00:57:39] that was the fun one where seven was,
[00:57:42] or the doctor was in seven, right?
[00:57:44] Is that one of the thing?
[00:57:44] No, that was related to that, I think,
[00:57:47] and the similar type of society, but it was that was,
[00:57:51] I forget what it was called, but that was a fun one.
[00:57:54] Yeah, that's a good one.
[00:57:55] Yeah.
[00:57:56] There is the rock, rock sofa five.
[00:57:59] I can't, I think that's right,
[00:58:00] but it was from the episode Dreadnought.
[00:58:02] It was the missile was headed towards
[00:58:05] that was going to destroy and Voyager had to stop it.
[00:58:08] So I just saw that recently too.
[00:58:11] The drains, the, the Ankari home world,
[00:58:14] which was where the equinox went
[00:58:17] and got that thing that allowed them to summon
[00:58:20] the nucleogenic life forms
[00:58:21] and basically kill everything just to get home faster.
[00:58:26] There, there's Cardassia Prime, setlic
[00:58:30] and there's a lot of TOS, TLR, Argus, Zatar.
[00:58:33] What I liked was, there was Septimus,
[00:58:35] which is the planet from Braden Circuses.
[00:58:38] That looks just like Earth.
[00:58:39] That's kind of the thing.
[00:58:42] Apparently, I don't know if this means that they are
[00:58:44] in their sphere of influence
[00:58:46] or if they're just keeping track of where these planets are.
[00:58:49] That might seem to be the just like,
[00:58:50] keeping track of it sooner.
[00:58:52] I will say it does seem kind of weird
[00:58:53] that they have like a map all the way
[00:58:54] to the Delta quadrant, just like open all the time
[00:58:57] because it's like, yeah, you clearly can't go that far.
[00:59:00] Right.
[00:59:01] So now they can.
[00:59:04] Well, now they can, yeah.
[00:59:05] Sure.
[00:59:06] I really hope we do get to see,
[00:59:08] I mean, I'm sure we'll probably stay
[00:59:11] more alpha beta quadrant focused for the season,
[00:59:14] but I do hope we get to see some maybe some Delta
[00:59:16] and even gamma quadrant stuff.
[00:59:17] Yeah, they list the two different planets of the,
[00:59:24] what am I trying to say?
[00:59:25] The change lanes, the found in their home world
[00:59:31] or whatever.
[00:59:31] Thank you.
[00:59:32] That's what I'm looking for.
[00:59:34] We also have Morsega, which was a,
[00:59:39] Klingon planet in the beta quadrant
[00:59:42] that had a subspace monitoring post.
[00:59:44] There's a lot of those.
[00:59:45] There's a chunk of them that were in discovery
[00:59:47] like the Carvan system,
[00:59:49] Tellin, Haley system, Dr. R. E. Alpha.
[00:59:53] But we also have like Benzar for the Benzonites,
[00:59:57] Fringinar Vault, which is the perfect mate episode
[01:00:02] that where they came from.
[01:00:05] There's also Capella,
[01:00:07] which was in the animated series
[01:00:08] and the original series,
[01:00:09] or at least Capellan powercat
[01:00:11] and Capellan flower in the animated series.
[01:00:14] Then there's Capella.
[01:00:15] I think that's where, was that?
[01:00:18] I can't remember exactly what that episode was,
[01:00:20] but there's a lot of them anyway.
[01:00:23] Yeah.
[01:00:24] So the thing, but as long as the very fat,
[01:00:27] as long as you mentioned,
[01:00:28] the very fact that I got my enterprise references
[01:00:30] because they actually had a dialogue,
[01:00:32] we got the temporal cold war being brought up,
[01:00:34] which I was like freaking out at.
[01:00:36] I'm like, oh my god, temporal cold war.
[01:00:38] I love it.
[01:00:38] Just give me all of that.
[01:00:39] I used to do an enterprise podcast,
[01:00:42] so I was super excited anytime the reference,
[01:00:45] anything I have ever tangentially.
[01:00:48] I love that it like has weirdly come back around
[01:00:51] that in some ways enterprise
[01:00:52] has become the most important reference point
[01:00:55] for this element of the show.
[01:00:57] This is actually the closest touchstone.
[01:01:00] Yeah.
[01:01:00] That's great.
[01:01:01] Oh, and the one last thing that I found was memory alpha.
[01:01:05] So the planetoid that memory alpha that I used to look up
[01:01:10] to make sure that I was actually planet-direct.
[01:01:12] It's okay with this thing.
[01:01:14] It's its trexception, trexception.
[01:01:16] Yeah.
[01:01:19] So that was pretty cool.
[01:01:20] I like that there's that much detail in it
[01:01:22] that it's not just sort of, and nothing's repeated.
[01:01:24] It's not like you see like five Earths or something like that,
[01:01:27] which is good.
[01:01:28] Well, I mean, TOS had five Earths.
[01:01:30] Well, no.
[01:01:31] Which I never deal with.
[01:01:32] I want other planets, but they aren't the same name
[01:01:35] as my brain.
[01:01:36] I want that episode of Star Trek where they're like,
[01:01:39] yeah, so there are planets that are literal copies of Earth.
[01:01:41] We ever going to like address that existential question
[01:01:45] of what that means.
[01:01:47] I wanted them to go back to that at some point on some show.
[01:01:50] Yeah.
[01:01:51] The only place that I think they ever dealt with it
[01:01:52] is in William Shattner's books.
[01:01:54] He has a book called Preserver that deals with it.
[01:01:57] But that's where he like the whole point,
[01:02:00] oh god, this gets into William Shattner's ego
[01:02:01] with those books.
[01:02:02] They're fascinating for just looking at his end
[01:02:04] because the whole conceit of that trilogy
[01:02:07] is that the entire universe was created
[01:02:10] in order to birth Kirk.
[01:02:12] In a sort of that Kirk could be at this one moment
[01:02:14] in time to save all of the universe
[01:02:16] and like these different Earths were like ways
[01:02:19] to like try and get him to be created.
[01:02:22] Yeah, it's fascinating.
[01:02:24] It looks at his end.
[01:02:25] It is fascinating.
[01:02:29] I can't say I'm exactly surprised.
[01:02:31] They're great books, but they are legitimately
[01:02:35] because there is a lot of like cool crossovers and stuff.
[01:02:37] But they're also peppered with William Shattner
[01:02:39] just like completely going off the deep end
[01:02:42] with Kirk is the best.
[01:02:44] Yeah.
[01:02:45] And people complain about Michael Burnham.
[01:02:47] But that's what I was just because she's a black lady.
[01:02:52] It's only OK if this head white man, didn't you know?
[01:02:58] Dave Demonson, that's the plot of boys
[01:03:00] still only instead of Kirk at Hitler.
[01:03:04] Oh my God, that's my husband you guys.
[01:03:07] That's my beautiful view of your new sitcom.
[01:03:10] That's my husband.
[01:03:12] Yes, I call it out every chance I get
[01:03:15] because I think he's magnetism.
[01:03:17] Yes, I would hope so.
[01:03:19] Briefing areas.
[01:03:21] So well, let's see, what else there's
[01:03:24] a couple plots going on?
[01:03:25] We've got everybody being debriefed, which is hilarious
[01:03:30] because we get really great interactions.
[01:03:33] I love Tilly's line.
[01:03:34] I actually wrote it down just because it was so perfect.
[01:03:39] Oh, I did, but then it disappeared.
[01:03:41] Ask me if that was in the manual.
[01:03:43] Was it in the manual?
[01:03:44] No.
[01:03:46] I'm in the eye.
[01:03:47] I know what happened.
[01:03:48] And then I got my phone out and became a dominatrix captain.
[01:03:51] And that was before we.
[01:03:53] Yeah.
[01:03:54] Oh, this is not dry.
[01:03:55] My hair blown out and became a Terence last dominatrix.
[01:03:58] And before we jumped into the wormhole in the future.
[01:04:00] So I mean, I love Starfleet.
[01:04:02] I really do.
[01:04:03] But ask me if any of this was in the handbook.
[01:04:05] And then the holograms.
[01:04:06] Was any of this in the hand?
[01:04:07] Oh my favorite ship Reno getting chips and dip.
[01:04:13] That's me because I want you want information.
[01:04:17] I'm hypoglycemic.
[01:04:19] You bring me food.
[01:04:20] And I will tell you what you need to know.
[01:04:23] There's an elopement of me that, like I'm sure that was actually written out and in the
[01:04:27] script.
[01:04:28] But there's a hope that like Tignitaro ad lib that.
[01:04:31] And then some some poor like set person was just like, oh crap.
[01:04:34] Now we got to go get chips and dip for the next scene.
[01:04:38] Someone get the catering like over to cater and use some chips and dip.
[01:04:41] Yeah.
[01:04:42] That sounds really good right now.
[01:04:43] Chips and dip.
[01:04:44] Yeah.
[01:04:45] Or the standards with like do you consider your that for me?
[01:04:49] Do you consider yourself essential personnel?
[01:04:51] I was like, have you been talking to debt nerd?
[01:04:53] Like question keeps all the way.
[01:04:54] Oh.
[01:04:55] And remember good now your reference of your name to the scene with with George O and David
[01:05:08] Kronenberg as a character.
[01:05:10] David freaking Kronenberg.
[01:05:12] I'm sitting there at the beginning of that scene going.
[01:05:16] I'm pretty sure that's David Kronenberg.
[01:05:23] Why is David Kronenberg here?
[01:05:25] So look at like Max headroom tie.
[01:05:27] It's had that really plasticy sort of, you know, almost artificial kind of like the
[01:05:32] bow ties on the holograms.
[01:05:34] Right.
[01:05:35] Right.
[01:05:36] Oh, but my theory with that because she has this interaction with the guy and it's back
[01:05:43] and forth.
[01:05:44] And he knows that he's not going to get any kind of decent answer out of her.
[01:05:49] And the only thing he's going to learn is from the questions that she asks him.
[01:05:53] And then that just sort of drops and then you see her at the very end of the episode,
[01:05:57] kind of just kind of staring off like 404 error, you know, like into the hallway.
[01:06:03] And Burnham came up like are you okay?
[01:06:06] And did you got a snap?
[01:06:07] I was like, why would you ever ask me that?
[01:06:10] I think because they brought up what she thought was fake a strain in the stem cells of the
[01:06:17] Terens that actually makes them evil, I guess.
[01:06:22] I'm wondering if they gave her some kind of stem cell thing or some sort of treatment
[01:06:28] that we didn't see because she just, they never finished that scene.
[01:06:32] She just is back on the ship.
[01:06:35] And if that's just her sort of like suddenly, like starting to process and like realize
[01:06:41] either what she's done or just, you know, changing her personality.
[01:06:46] I hope not because that would be, that would have some disturbing implications.
[01:06:50] I don't think there's a section 31 but yeah, I got section low key section 31 virus from
[01:06:57] them.
[01:06:58] So potentially possible true.
[01:07:00] I don't know.
[01:07:01] I don't know what's going on with her, even with the context of the next episode that
[01:07:06] I can't talk about.
[01:07:09] But I'm not necessarily sure.
[01:07:12] I'm not necessarily sure it was something that was done to her but something maybe that
[01:07:17] was triggered emotionally or mentally by something David Kronenberg said we never
[01:07:22] got a name for that character did we?
[01:07:24] No.
[01:07:25] So I'm just going to keep calling him Kronenberg.
[01:07:28] Yeah.
[01:07:29] So I just, you know, because she took it hard when he told her that the Terran Empire
[01:07:35] had died out hundreds of years ago.
[01:07:38] And so I just, I don't know what to think right now.
[01:07:42] I wonder what I love about that scene and it's my outside of the nerd gasm at the top
[01:07:50] of the episode.
[01:07:51] That is my favorite scene of the whole episode.
[01:07:54] Because I just love how perfectly he has her number and is able to play her.
[01:07:59] As you mentioned, it's like the only way I want to get information out of you is if
[01:08:02] it like I ask you asked me questions and I sort of can bring information.
[01:08:06] And then that gets him like she mentions like, oh, people's only weaknesses are other
[01:08:09] people.
[01:08:10] She brings that up.
[01:08:11] And that is what allows him to sort of like, oh, so you have someone that you care about
[01:08:16] sort of like he's able to reverse engineer her insecurities from what she's saying.
[01:08:21] And I just love like she has finally met her match in terms of intelligence and his
[01:08:27] like calm coolness was just so it was just wonderful.
[01:08:32] So I thought that that was a really brilliant scene and really, really well written just
[01:08:37] though like how well he was able to just play her.
[01:08:42] Yeah.
[01:08:44] And I love how nervous Michelle Yo was to play a scene with David Cronenberg because
[01:08:50] she is a mega fan.
[01:08:52] Oh my gosh, I didn't know that that is amazing.
[01:08:55] Yes, she and I saw it on her Instagram account and she was talking about how nervous
[01:09:00] she was because she's a little bit of subtext there that yeah.
[01:09:08] That's really cool.
[01:09:09] Really?
[01:09:10] Well, just warmed my heart.
[01:09:13] And we have like a business like an A, B and C plot it feels like.
[01:09:17] And then the C plot which was with NON and the seed ship, well the the McGuffin or
[01:09:23] the thing that one of my trying to say that they need that they need the plan to secure
[01:09:31] whatever right.
[01:09:32] I mean it could have been anything pretty much.
[01:09:34] They got them to this the seed vault ship which is cool.
[01:09:37] I like that concept but it was something they were just doing and it lasted that long
[01:09:41] kind of like the vault in Norway.
[01:09:43] I think is where it is.
[01:09:44] The real life one.
[01:09:46] In between Norway and the North Pole yes.
[01:09:49] Basically in the very very cold part of the plan.
[01:09:54] My friend and I were watching the episode last night and when they opened up the seed vault
[01:09:58] and it like goes through the lights and they can find the plan and it's like right next
[01:10:01] to them or like well good thing the plant that they needed was like right on their level
[01:10:05] and not like up at the top of that seed vault is like anyone got a ladder.
[01:10:08] They had little little bots in there.
[01:10:12] They can climb around.
[01:10:13] That's true, that's true.
[01:10:14] But it was look don't ruin my joke okay.
[01:10:17] Brandy I'm sorry but it would have been less like just emotional and interesting to
[01:10:23] have them like wait for this robot to bring it down you know like the fact they pull
[01:10:28] it out.
[01:10:29] Yeah.
[01:10:30] Just everybody staring up.
[01:10:32] Yeah like the grief guy is just sort of like it takes a second just to give it a moment
[01:10:39] so.
[01:10:40] Yeah.
[01:10:41] It has a name it's Dr.
[01:10:43] Addis gosh.
[01:10:44] Yeah.
[01:10:45] I'm calling him grief guy that's what all the same to me.
[01:10:49] He was very good at crying on command actually really liked his performance.
[01:10:54] Yeah he was good yeah.
[01:10:56] That whole section felt very TNG or yes.
[01:11:00] I'm like classic.
[01:11:01] I could see that as an entire episode of them you know.
[01:11:06] Jority and somebody else is on the ship trying to figure this out and you know there's
[01:11:10] these people like oh there's these people are in cryo sleep.
[01:11:13] No they're not really in sleep they're dead and you know just all the different plot
[01:11:16] points and stuff it just felt beat for beat like a very compressed TNG episode.
[01:11:20] They've done that a few times this season which I've kind of been enjoying where it's
[01:11:23] just like they like especially the last three like the earth episode felt very kind
[01:11:28] of TNG ask sort of like oh well you have these two groups and they're fighting each other
[01:11:33] you had the trail planet where when they go to trail there's like the mention of like
[01:11:37] oh yes you're an abomination oh yes like we can't have you back but there's this other
[01:11:41] group that wants to have like the troke and back regardless of everything that could
[01:11:44] have been a whole episode.
[01:11:45] So like that they had like these like TNG style things sort of like popping up throughout
[01:11:49] it which is kind of fun and it like fits the style of the show it's like oh yeah we'll
[01:11:54] talk about that we'll bring it up but also we're focusing on some other stuff so it's
[01:11:57] kind of very cool in that way.
[01:11:59] It's a nice backdrop to have the other things happen against without being just a generic
[01:12:04] kind of whatever.
[01:12:06] Dave the monster had bridged his whole family.
[01:12:09] Yeah quite litter oh my god.
[01:12:11] Yeah wow yeah that troke Jesus wow yeah well that's motivation for him to do what he was
[01:12:22] doing and it kind of is that yeah and it is worth noting that the the the set white
[01:12:30] dude is the one that survives that.
[01:12:34] It is like one of those like even it becomes even like the trope just becomes like kind
[01:12:38] of the norm so it is I mean it's like not the most degree just he's a side character
[01:12:42] side character thing but it is sort of like interesting that they chose the father to be
[01:12:47] the one that survived.
[01:12:48] I was like how much more interesting would have been if it actually been the mom I think
[01:12:51] because just the fact of the drive of having your children I mean not that men don't have
[01:12:58] that same feeling for their kids but yeah there's just something if that person you know
[01:13:02] if they birthed those children I think there's a different connection so I don't know
[01:13:06] well and have two women left over on the ship would be good.
[01:13:11] Yeah it also put a gun like grief oh yeah I was just going to say the thing is though he's
[01:13:17] not going to stay alive he's going to die within a matter of days.
[01:13:21] True yeah which that that is kind of getting to the to the one thing like this is the one
[01:13:27] part of the episode that I did not like because and and like I talked about in my review
[01:13:34] and a lot of people like no no it's fine and I rewatched the episode last night like maybe
[01:13:37] I just wasn't getting it but I was a bit confused and I think it was just coming came down
[01:13:43] to the writing at that one scene which I thought was a bit kind of a little bit messy for
[01:13:48] me personally is they have this ethical dilemma that Colbert brings up that's like okay
[01:13:53] we have to choose between letting this guy die on the ship to respect his culture or taking
[01:14:00] him against his wishes to help save his life that's the sort of dilemma that gets brought
[01:14:04] up and then Colbert leaves so that's an interesting dilemma but then the conversation shifts
[01:14:14] and it never makes it clear because then it shifts to not being about that ethical dilemma
[01:14:19] of save his life don't save his life it becomes about we're going to let him like it becomes
[01:14:25] about do we let him die and leave the ship or or do we like go it just it wasn't entirely clear
[01:14:34] and I can like make it work but the way that conversation shifts and just kind of glosses over
[01:14:39] the fact that like okay we're gonna let him die kind of bothers me because they don't really
[01:14:43] they just kind of yada yada yeah he's gonna die in the background and it kind of disturb me
[01:14:49] well he made that choice and non does say to Colbert just because it's not a choice you understand
[01:14:55] doesn't make it an irrational one and I I know I think I know what they were trying to do and
[01:15:05] I don't know that they did it well enough but I feel like the thing is Colbert's the idealist
[01:15:11] in this situation his first job is to save lives to ensure people's well-being that is his primary
[01:15:20] motivation Michael is a realist now and she knows that yes there are these cultural things going
[01:15:28] on but the bigger problem at hand is losing this seed ship and the history of the federation
[01:15:35] that it carries so she had to weigh those two things against each other as well and that's why
[01:15:42] she sent Colbert back to the ship because she couldn't have him be a part of that conversation
[01:15:48] because he would have kept fighting to take out his back to discovery see yeah now that you're
[01:15:53] saying that that makes perfect sense how that that sequence like that sequence of events worse I guess
[01:15:59] it's just it's a little bit it's muddy yeah yeah no I get that I get that and that's why you know
[01:16:07] that's why I said if they didn't do it especially well in that regard but I'm one of those people
[01:16:13] that sees and hears weird things sometimes yeah no no no that's absolutely that's actually that's a great
[01:16:20] those are that's great character beats and I really actually like that and I like that like her being
[01:16:24] like carries send them away in order to have like the conversation that I need to kind of have
[01:16:28] think that makes perfect sense I just wish it had been a little bit clear because that's actually
[01:16:31] brilliant agree agree I agree that that should have been clear I think what's interesting is they
[01:16:38] the writers are in some point and some instances giving the audience a lot of credit and letting
[01:16:44] them fill that in to the point that it's not as clear as it could be maybe they need to make it
[01:16:49] a little clearer like I love that they're not trying to just walk us through every single thing
[01:16:53] and like let's explain this you know beat by beat but at the same time maybe maybe walk us down
[01:17:01] that path a little bit with you before you drop us off yeah it's it's a fine line sometimes
[01:17:10] because there are moments where and I appreciate the show for this is that they don't necessarily
[01:17:15] always call out character motivations and let you interpret it like for example I think a brilliant
[01:17:20] one was even I think last episode where Saru comes in to talk to stem its and says like hey you
[01:17:27] need to to you know come up with something else that it doesn't rely on you being the the way
[01:17:32] we use the sport drive and then immediately right after that stem its lashes out at Tillie
[01:17:37] and it's not like spelled out like oh he's lashing out at her because he feels insecure because
[01:17:41] he's not going to be in control of the ship anymore that's not like spelled out to you but you get
[01:17:45] it because it's sort of implied by his motivation yeah so I appreciate that the show doesn't like
[01:17:50] beat you over the head with it but you're right like sometimes especially when it's like mired in
[01:17:54] like a lot of these like there's a lot of different pieces going on sometimes you need to be a
[01:17:59] little bit clearer with it and so it's a very fine line I totally appreciate the at the right is
[01:18:04] the lemma there yeah well yeah and I think the thing that we as viewers forget is that a script
[01:18:11] goes through a lot of revision before it actually makes it to shooting and there may have been a
[01:18:16] clearer version of that scene yeah that was edited for a time or other reasons that we don't know
[01:18:23] about that's you know that's beside the point really because what we got is what we got and it
[01:18:29] wasn't clear enough to most people so but I you know I always I'm always thinking about the behind
[01:18:35] the scenes stuff as well because I'm acutely aware then of everything all the time
[01:18:44] and just part of my psyche I feel everything all the time there is no off switch and so I'm constantly
[01:18:49] thinking about all of those other viewpoints as well which is exhausting a lot of the time frankly
[01:18:55] no I believe me I hear you had the same thing I do on my my own stuff too it's like trying to keep
[01:19:00] all these things in mind and trying to like run understand how it comes across and how
[01:19:05] and how it comes in I even see it in like my own YouTube video stuff where I'll like say something
[01:19:09] and people will be like oh you meant this and like no no no no I've meant something completely
[01:19:12] different but it's all about like how your work gets perceived once it's outside of you yeah
[01:19:17] yeah it's not yours anymore sometimes yeah that's a very good point yeah speaking of the idea
[01:19:25] like reading into things we are unfortunately are running out of time so I'm gonna compress a couple
[01:19:29] of these things together our head cannon corner which we didn't name it last week but that's what
[01:19:35] we're naming it now you had a really Jesse you had a really interesting idea which I think
[01:19:43] that I picked up on and then just forgot about it because everything else happened
[01:19:48] of two characters and how they might have a past yeah I just I was rewatching
[01:19:53] I caught it to my first time through but then I would like to forget it because there was
[01:19:56] just so much else going on and I was rewatching last night and so I tweeted about it because I think
[01:20:01] there's there's a case to be made that Admiral Vance the head of Starfleet and Admiral Taule the
[01:20:08] prior host of Adira who we saw in sort of the memory snake pit yeah exactly that they they had
[01:20:18] a relationship together and they were actually boyfriends or lovers or even husbands because
[01:20:23] there's that one scene where Adira comes on the ship and she says to Vance like oh he wanted
[01:20:31] to stay and see snow one last time you didn't mean to leave you hanging and he says and Vance
[01:20:36] says back to her it's like oh he always was sentimental and there was this like nice moment
[01:20:41] and it read to me that he that two of them were in love and had a thing for each other and that
[01:20:50] it was a very sweet sort of understanding scene between the two of them and acknowledgement that he
[01:20:54] had that they were in love and had died and that Adira knows this and then that's why he kind of
[01:20:58] pushes her away and that scene says but let me be clear like he doesn't spell it out which is like
[01:21:02] let me be clear I you and I are not that so those feelings I cannot put on you and I think he's
[01:21:09] saying it not even just for her but for himself and to be like look I can't have the same relationship
[01:21:15] with you I had with him even though I would kind of want to yeah I would like to take this quick
[01:21:19] moment to express my deep and abiding love for Odette Fair who might have loved for over 21 years
[01:21:24] now ever since I first saw him in the mummy I think he is absolutely brilliant and everything he does
[01:21:29] and super hot with that silver beard he is his beard is freaking fantastic
[01:21:37] I'm really growing mine just because of that no
[01:21:42] sorry I didn't mean to derail I just had to get that out no no no no it's
[01:21:46] look we can we should we should rant all about his beard all the time
[01:21:51] there is a show on our network that is it where this would be totally appropriate it's called
[01:21:55] friend fiction where they basically talk about a fictional character and what kind of crush they
[01:22:01] had on them and who they want to see them with and and it's a great show and it's every other week
[01:22:06] on Saturdays at seven o'clock and I'm the moderator on that show.
[01:22:09] Okay look at you promoting also I should put out Magtown Magtown mentions OO and
[01:22:14] Debtmer and I also get and I've realized that this is a this has been a long running ship
[01:22:19] that I have just missed and only recently gotten into but OO and Debtmer are totally a thing
[01:22:24] totally a thing. I agree I agree I get that feeling strong feeling there yeah
[01:22:31] and then we had our question of the week which sort of goes into just all sorts of ideas about
[01:22:38] what does that didn't make any sense that was a horrible trend. Look I can help you with transitions
[01:22:45] I'm the I'm the queen of trends that's some trans humor there for you yeah it's hard to
[01:22:53] do vamp and then you try to use the interface and stream yard at the same time to find your
[01:22:58] thing that you're putting up so the question of the week we had was now that we've seen the USS
[01:23:03] Nug what Starfleet officer which Starfleet officer would you name a ship after and why
[01:23:09] we didn't get as many why answers as I thought we would but we did get a lot of names. We have
[01:23:14] three and a half pages of names actually this is our most popular question ever so it's crazy
[01:23:21] yeah so I'm gonna I'll read a couple of them with William Smith said or Bill said
[01:23:27] instead of some of the obvious choices I think I'm gonna go with the USS Polaski it's a medical ship
[01:23:32] so like that's cool and then Dalar D-A-L-A-R-A and it's moonshine
[01:23:41] that indeed the USS Polaski a fine ship that rescued many until its mysterious disappearance
[01:23:46] after only one year of service never to be seen again. Oh my gosh that's perfect yeah
[01:23:55] we have Al Godwin said the USS Chancellor Martok
[01:24:03] Evelyn Mousse says the USS LaForge he was running Utopia Plinichia for a while which makes sense
[01:24:09] and now I'll bring that to the other one I'll add that to the one at the end we have the USS
[01:24:17] Mott which is cool USS data he sacrificed him Picard and the Enterprise
[01:24:24] Brad says USS Moore in a California class we can see what the California class looks like
[01:24:30] in the 32nd century yeah very true I might have to play around with that Jonathan Hamilton
[01:24:37] who is at Dex lower and at Dex lower so both of those said USS Mariner because she's destined
[01:24:42] for greatness and then the USS Ransom also has a nice ring
[01:24:50] at shulans 271 we have more people with like just random numbers at the end like are these
[01:24:55] bots we had so many of them I was just like but they're all really specific answers so they're
[01:24:59] they're either the the you know political bots just got bored and drifted over the Russians
[01:25:06] influencing our election now the elections over have to have something to do now so
[01:25:12] we can't just sit only sit around twiddling their virtual thumbs they gotta have some content
[01:25:19] I've got to wait until 2022 to do what they have any of the other two real let's start yeah
[01:25:25] so this person said I'd like to name the ship after a red shirt specifically lowered Dex type crew
[01:25:31] member who died in line of duty I nominate USS O'Hill or O'Hillery named after the
[01:25:38] O'Hillery thank you was named after the Ensign killed by the Gorn on sessis 3
[01:25:45] and Miles Bryan had many people John Johnson Calubright Phil Hawkins
[01:25:50] melange 52781287
[01:25:54] that's the he told you USS Miles O'Brien named after the most important person in Starfleet history
[01:26:01] now and becomes the most important ship and in Starfleet naturally
[01:26:07] Eric extremes that the USS Benjamin Sisko without his actions the Federation would have
[01:26:11] eventually initially surrendered to the Dominion therefore entering the ending the UFB as we know it
[01:26:17] it disappears it disappears and Thomas has to come back but never does
[01:26:22] singing out with the blaski somewhere too real too real
[01:26:25] he also had the USS walking bear named after Ensign walking bear the first Native American officer
[01:26:32] Comanche that we saw in Star Trek and that's from the anime series we have a here's an outlier for
[01:26:40] the USS Nichev who's an admiral at TNG and DS9 eras and I like to see I like the sound of
[01:26:48] a starship named after her yeah so that's kind of cool just that the ship is mildly problematic but
[01:26:55] we like her anyways the USS Leffler because athlete Ashley Judd yes we got a couple you know USS
[01:27:06] Kirk and USS Picard I like the USS Seric in honor of Mark Leonard which was a nice one I saw
[01:27:12] yes that was good and then there's one with the USS Bashir because of those eyes
[01:27:18] and also Ben procession say to reference yes yes
[01:27:21] recent past summer Dave the mod actually said the USS John Haramon because Alan Ruck
[01:27:28] yep let's see trying to think if we have anybody in the Star Trek Generations y'all
[01:27:34] I'll put forth the USS Jennifer it's the ship that everyone hates and loves to show
[01:27:39] I love that one I will read and then we can we can we'll Brandi you can do yours and I'll
[01:27:52] do mine is the USS Ensyn Kim but it's just there has to be Ensyn Kim no Ensyn Kim and then the
[01:28:03] other one was like it's always going to be the NX class he's never gonna upgrade from you
[01:28:07] to USS never gonna get commissioned yeah NX Ensyn Kim yeah the NX Ensyn Kim that's great
[01:28:15] so that was my favorite of all the ones that came through that was pretty funny my idea I had was
[01:28:20] the USS Erics just because that's why I was wearing this because he was supposedly this fantastic
[01:28:25] pilot he taught check off how to fly so maybe he was just well known in the in the community
[01:28:32] and they named a ship after him and Brandi what was yours well the obvious answer
[01:28:40] and my first instinct was to say the USS Spock but I feel the better choice for me yeah there's
[01:28:50] probably one already but my my real choice is the USS Tilly because Tilly is the first time
[01:29:00] that I have ever felt represented on screen in Star Trek so that is why I would have a ship named
[01:29:07] after her and also because she's awesome wouldn't that be cool if she actually made enough of an
[01:29:11] impact like being Ensyn that was her mom because she's so like she's what Federation diplomat
[01:29:17] yeah she's a diplomat she's a federation it's suddenly a ship is named after her and that
[01:29:21] would be so cool for her to discover that right that would be amazing because the commission
[01:29:27] like it starts a you know a patreon basically or something to like raise raise money to get
[01:29:33] them credits so we can get my daughter a ship so yeah that would be great and then we have
[01:29:40] real quick before we head out because the improvised generation on screen is coming up next and we
[01:29:46] need to clear out for them we have a fun event coming up on January 27th wow this wait for out
[01:29:54] November 27th the day after Thanksgiving it is the Trek's Giving Holiday Hangout or holodeck hangout
[01:30:02] wow I cannot speak from noon to three Pacific and we're going to have more information to come but
[01:30:08] I can say for sure that I Brandy and Jesse will I'll be there yep I will be there so probably full on
[01:30:15] full on turkey we all might just be you know hanging out and falling asleep but
[01:30:21] who comes yeah we go with leftovers no but the idea is to bring a bunch of different podcasters
[01:30:27] together that and expose them to other audiences that they might not have seen in vice versa
[01:30:33] and just to talk about what we're thankful for in Star Trek probably do some trivia and stuff
[01:30:38] like that and yeah so I think it'll be good time and you know a lot of people you know this year
[01:30:45] is going to be very strange for Thanksgiving and so it's nice to have you know even if we're not
[01:30:50] you're real family but the I did your Star Trek family to you know hang out with them for a
[01:30:55] couple hours even if it's you know online and in the chat room so yeah exactly yeah because yeah
[01:31:04] I'm not I'm not traveling to see anybody for Thanksgiving so yeah unfortunately I don't think
[01:31:10] I'm not either so we definitely are not because my mother is 82 and at risk and she
[01:31:18] we were worried that she was going to still want to do it and she actually said no I don't want
[01:31:23] you guys to come here because I just cannot risk it it's just not smart so yeah well I'll be
[01:31:30] my younger sister will be in Vegas anyway she and her husband go to Vegas to meet up with one
[01:31:36] of their friends from back east everything's giving and so my older sister I don't know what they'll
[01:31:42] be doing she's good at cooking though I am not we're getting Mexican food so anyway
[01:31:49] hey and I mean you'll mix I might make a pumpkin Reveoli I've done that a couple times
[01:31:55] also I just want to make meg 10 megs comment thank you I'm thankful for you meg 10 meg oh well
[01:32:01] we're thankful for you thank you thank you wow that was pretty sweet I know I just like I don't
[01:32:07] think we can end on a better note than that I know right I'm sorry I probably should tell
[01:32:11] I would be where we can find us though I suppose that's what we can do right just where can we find you
[01:32:17] you can find me at Jesse gender on YouTube that's where I do most of my stuff I have
[01:32:24] I usually just try and I always aim as to have at least one video by Friday but this
[01:32:28] point I've been doing many many many many more videos than one a week but at least have one video
[01:32:33] a week about Star Trek and I do reviews of Star Trek and on the discussions of geek and pop culture
[01:32:39] and how it influences us being learning how to be better humans I also am on Twitter at Jesse
[01:32:45] gender and all the social media's but usually Twitter's the one where I hang on hang out the most
[01:32:50] and I also have a Patreon page as well I guess if I also Pimphan podcast too I do a podcast called
[01:32:58] What the Frelle with another wonderful youtuber called council of eeks where we rewatch far escape and
[01:33:04] it's my first time watching far escape I've never seen it so it's been a fun ride oh wow
[01:33:09] yeah you can't even read this like a bit player in one episode
[01:33:13] what say they're not familiar yeah um it was like the uh
[01:33:18] can't remember what the episode was he had really wrong hair it was like they were stuck on a planet
[01:33:22] it was like a farm planet I have to go I have to figure out what it is but yeah so he ended up being
[01:33:27] in body of proof with with uh Jerry Ryan actually on abc so it was funny I walked up and like they're
[01:33:33] moving in and just like that weird feeling like I know this person from somewhere why do I know this
[01:33:37] person is he from the grocery store is he like what where is it like oh my gosh he's on that TV show
[01:33:45] that's the strange things that happen in LA so yeah and you can find me at geek filter
[01:33:51] on instagram and twitter and brandy where can we find you two many places uh honestly
[01:33:58] since we're running long I'm just gonna say go follow me on twitter at brandy wine 12
[01:34:01] brandy with an i12 is a number I do far too many things but you'll see me talking about all of them
[01:34:06] there sounds good well thank you so much for joining us Jesse that was a lot of fun and we could have
[01:34:13] like got talked for like much longer oh yeah like in a bunch of hours at least I think yeah
[01:34:17] I mean actually we got the entire podcast and channels because we could talk for
[01:34:22] well that's one of the reasons the roundtable I think is gonna be great because we can
[01:34:25] just we've got three hours to battle on and on no problem add a lot five uh battle on
[01:34:32] guys I love that long time you guys awesome well live long and prosper everybody and we'll see you
[01:34:42] next week I
[01:34:45] you're eating
[01:34:50] we can't in the show guys okay all right there we go bye
[01:34:55] infinite trek is a production of coconut media works executive producers Bill Smith and Dan
[01:35:00] Davidson for more great star trek discussion discover the other shows of the trek geeks podcast
[01:35:06] network at trek geeks.com or find us in apple podcasts Spotify or your favorite podcast app
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