The One Where We Talk About the End of Discovery

[00:00:02] on this episode of DSPACE Pride, we talk about the Discovery Series finale, Life itself. We also catch up on some Star Trek news and some non Trek related updates. Thanks for joining us. Hey Mike, Happy Pride. Happy Pride Johnson. How are you? Okay, it's June. Summer's almost over.

[00:01:02] Why do you say this? You always, always say that this is the end. Time is just going by so fast. It's just going by so quickly. Summer has barely begun. It's officially hasn't even begun but... Wait what? Really? The summer solstice hasn't hit yet? No. When is it?

[00:01:25] June 20th? Oh wow. Or something like that? Somewhere around there? Yeah. There we are then. The unofficial start to summer is obviously Memorial Day weekend. So it's more or less started. It has more or less started for about a week.

[00:01:41] Yes, in the minds and hearts of Americans, summer has started. Okay. Yeah. It's true. Sure, except for all those poor kids who are still going to school. Oh sure, well that's almost about to end so I think it's fine. Almost. You tell that to them.

[00:01:58] They go to like the last week in June now in school. What? Yeah. Really? Like high schoolers? Yes. Oh my god. It's crazy. I don't understand what changed from when we grew up to now.

[00:02:13] Wait, I don't remember going on for that long but maybe I just don't remember. No, I remember growing up. We were always at a school by the first or second week of June. Always. Wow. Yep. So I don't know what they're doing now.

[00:02:27] I don't know what they're doing. More school, more learning. I somehow don't believe that anyone is learning anything in June at all. Well, I mean if they're high schoolers, they're taking finals potentially still? Yes, I know.

[00:02:43] Well, so in New York, I went to a high school graduation party, not a graduation yet on Sunday. He was telling me that they still have school and the seniors get a week off or so because everyone else takes the regents, which I don't know what regents are.

[00:03:08] It's just like a statewide exam. It's almost like a standardized exam. You need to pass it to graduate essentially. Okay. Well, I mean I assume they do that in like 11th grade or 10th grade or 9th grade? Yes, throughout all high school. Okay.

[00:03:26] And some regents are also for junior high I think. Oh, okay. Well anyway, he's not taking them so they don't have them. So they have like a week off before they and then they come back for a few days and then they graduate. So oh, okay. Okay.

[00:03:43] But and my so my nephews and niece up in Massachusetts, they go up to like the last week in June and then they're going there, finish school one day and they're flying to Aruba the next day for vacation. Oh, fine. Yeah, fine.

[00:03:58] So well, Mike, are you doing anything fun for pride? I have no immediate plans, but other than my what? No Fire Island underwear party? No, there is no fire. No, yes. That's not my jam. That is not my jam at all. No, but it is some people's jam.

[00:04:22] It is some people's jam. It's fine. Yeah, it's not mine. Yeah, I'm a mole person and I take pride in that. You're a what person? I'm a mole person. I like to just stay underground where there's no sun.

[00:04:35] Well, you're not a mole person, but you're a homebody, except when you're social, which is almost any time you're not working. Well, I think moles are also social animals. So OK, yeah. But your burrow, so to speak, is your eighth floor apartment.

[00:04:57] But I also like to take the subway. Like, I would say this up with like one stop because OK, well, that's just laziness. That's not that's not because you're a mole person. Well, I don't mean I don't mind being underground. Oh, OK.

[00:05:11] Yeah, well, I mean, in some dystopian features, humanity lives underground. So that's true. Something to look forward to maybe. Or or at least when they burrow me, though, I want to be cremated. So I don't know. So this line of questioning is not going well.

[00:05:29] This is a slight tangent. And we should get back to talking about celebrating pride. But more importantly, yes, pride before pride. My birthday is this week. So, yes, yes, we're having a party here. Thank you. Oh, my God, everyone.

[00:05:47] Yeah, Mike actually designed invitations as I get the fuck out of here. What I did. I did. I designed an invitation. Yes. Wait, what did you design it in? So I used a paper post. OK, but I but I didn't use their service.

[00:06:07] So I just created a paper post. And then you probably based it. Yeah, I took a screenshot and used that. So I mean, I could have done in Canva or something. Or you could turn it in like chat, GVT probably. Oh, maybe. But yeah.

[00:06:23] So, yeah, I created it in paper post and then copy and install it because they wanted money for inviting people and stuff like that. Yes, they do. They do. I mean, it's understandable, but I didn't want to spend money on a invitation. I just needed the invitation.

[00:06:40] And then I was understandable. Are we are we boring you? No, sorry. That's the biggest. Yeah. No, you should have kept the conversation going. Well, I mean, I was too too shocked to watch this. Yeah. So those three seconds of dead air time were talking at Johnson yawning.

[00:07:09] I was like, keep on talking. Like, what are you doing? Why are you staring at me? I mean, because I was waiting for the inevitable yawning noise and he didn't mute himself. So I was I was like, I was yawning silently. OK, God. But visually, you were yawning.

[00:07:29] So I was I was just enamored with it and decided not to speak and just watch the show. I know now. Now, this is a very weird thing going wrong. Do we lose audio? No. Well, it's only for three seconds that I'm going to leave it there

[00:07:46] because I think it's funny. But anyway. Getting back to your birthday, how many people did you invite? There's going to be like 30 people here. Holy shit. Yeah, that's a lot of people. We haven't had people over in two years. Not that many.

[00:08:03] You've had people over, but not like a crowd like that. No, we I don't think we've hosted anything here for two years. No way. We've had like dinner, but it's like small. Maybe. All right. Maybe we've had a dinner. Yes. Yeah. But now I.

[00:08:18] No, not a party like this now. So we are because we're around this summer. We're not traveling. We're, you know, cleaning up the back patio. So it's yeah, it's so dirty. That's not that dirty. Really? The rug is like disgusting.

[00:08:38] Oh, there's no rug. We got rid of the rug. I got rid of it. I think. Oh, yeah. I think it was gross. Yes. Yes. Yes. Although now I'm obsessed. Even though we're not going to do any of this,

[00:08:47] I really want to get like turf back there and like really make. But anyway, why? And well, just to like make it a little, I don't know, greener and you know, because it's got these slate rocks back there. That's the floor.

[00:09:07] And yeah, you know, but anyway, we're not going to spend that kind of money on it. But yeah, so we're going to. Yeah. Oh, wow. Big, big party. Yeah. We've got a new grill. So I will be grilling some sausages and charcoal grill. Charcoal grill. Yes.

[00:09:24] And Dennis bought some plants and some citronella candles. I mean, it's the whole whole thing. It's. So, yeah. So, yeah, we're going to have about 30 people over roughly. That's a production. Yes, it is. But I'm excited. And hopefully the rosé that I ordered arrives.

[00:09:47] I had to call today and ask them what the heck was up with it. So I'm hoping it will be here by Friday. I begged them. I said, please, I'm having a party this Friday and I'm. What is this rosé? What's so special about it? We bought rosé.

[00:10:04] So we went upstate last a year ago or last fall, and we got the end of the season. All right. We got the end of their run of rosé. We tasted it, obviously, and we loved it. So we bought like three or four bottles

[00:10:21] and we've just been obsessed with it ever since. And so I bought this year's called up and or no, I joined their wine club, bought a case of it for this party and for the summer. Oh, my God. So, yeah. So hopefully it'll be here.

[00:10:37] But I'm also making my sangria. So you're missing out on. Oh, fine. I love your sangria. So good. Yes. And so I've got that. I can't see you on the phone. Please, sir, may I have some rosé like all over twist up the grass for rosé? Well, Chelsea.

[00:10:58] Chelsea at boundary breaks is very nice. She's like, I will I will leave Mary Kate a message. Hopefully she'll pack it up tomorrow or, you know, ask her to pack it up tomorrow and what is taking them so long? What's going on? I don't know.

[00:11:10] I don't know. I don't know. So I even spoke to her before I ordered it and was like, I'm ordering this for a party. And she's like, oh, it'll go out next Monday. It only takes a day or two to get to you.

[00:11:21] It's like, OK. And here it is Tuesday and it hasn't shipped yet. So I'm a little a little freaking out. But yeah. So, yeah, rosé, a couple of charcuterie trays, some fresh sausage off the grill, chips, dip all that stuff. Yeah, it'll be great. You're missing out.

[00:11:43] You are missing out. I know. Instead, I'm going to go see a Puccini opera. So there we are. I should yawn because that's what I would do if I was sitting in a Puccini opera. Captain Picard would love it. He would enjoy it. Yes, he would.

[00:12:00] Data would probably too. Yeah, data would. But the you know, I would be bored out of my mind. The crew. Yeah, no, no. So yes. So you're going to the opera. I'm throwing a party. Mm hmm. That is the kickoff to pride slash celebrating my birthday. Yeah.

[00:12:22] Yeah. So that's coming up later this week. Actually, when this episode drops. So, oh, yes, yes, you'll have your birthday party the day this episode drops. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. So no pride plans. I mean, it's not like I'm doing anything. I have. Yeah. Well, great.

[00:12:41] No, thanks. No, no, no. I mean, I mean, there's a couple of things, you know, that my church is doing. So I'll probably participate in those things. Same. But. But yeah, that's you know, that's. It's about it.

[00:12:58] I mean, I've seen the emails about like networking things and stuff like that. God. But yeah, I don't know that I'm going to invest in that. I'm sure the energy is going to be bonkers. So many gays to send on the city. Yes. Everywhere. Yeah.

[00:13:20] And it's funny because this year is rolling right into the fourth of July week. So. Pride is. Oh, wait. 30th. It's the last day of the month this year. And then a couple of days later, I mean, I have the fourth and fifth off. And yeah, so.

[00:13:40] Yeah, so yeah. But then then then summer will be like well on its way. Yeah, summer then will be truly in full swing and almost over. So I don't want it to be. I don't want it to go by fast. I have stuff to do.

[00:13:59] And yeah, I'm already like there's already shit on my calendar for like end of July and that's ridiculous. You are you're you and your posse's are out of control. That's I mean, we're adults, Mike. If we don't plan ahead, nothing's going to happen.

[00:14:16] I know, but still it's true. You got to like if it does, if it's not in the gold calendar, it doesn't exist. Yeah. So anyway, yeah. Yeah, so pride something to look forward to. I mean, the rest of the month and we'll see what takes us.

[00:14:36] Yeah, well, I'm sure Mike, do you do you have anything to curve off on when it comes to Star Trek to you? No, this is a Star Trek podcast. Oh, right. Right, right. Well, right. You know, so I sent you yesterday this whole thing.

[00:14:48] It really looks like Skydance is going to merge with Paramount. I know it's like, is it really going to happen? Well, there's this whole thing about shareholder, you know, the Redstone shareholders and all that. Can they hold it up or can't they? All that stuff.

[00:15:04] But yeah, I don't know. There is no new news on that. But other than it's going to happen. Really? Well, no, this was definitely because that's why I saw it. Like it was like Skydance and Paramount are going to close the deal this week.

[00:15:20] OK, so it was from CNBC. So, you know, that's a pretty good source. They wouldn't just put it out there if it wasn't right. Right. A good source. So yeah, so it looks like that. And then there is some side note about who the CEO might be.

[00:15:36] But I did not pay attention to that piece. Oh, OK. So good luck. I mean, you know, yeah, maybe better management will benefit. Benefit Star Trek, I don't know. Hopefully. Yeah, it wouldn't hurt, to be honest. That's true. Yeah. Unless they like sell the IP for scraps.

[00:16:03] Who knows? I don't know. You know, I would think it's one of their more valuable assets. Although, like now that, you know, now they've canceled lower decks, which is a huge shame, which I've started watching as part of like just like,

[00:16:24] you know, something fun to watch if I need to not think and just laugh and just relax. So it's either that or Brooklyn Nine-Nine. So, oh, OK. Something funny and light. Last week was the 30th anniversary of All Good Things. Oh, yes, it was.

[00:16:45] And yeah, I rewatched it. No, no, 25, not 30. I thought it was 30. Twenty nineteen ninety four. No. Yeah. Nineteen ninety four. It's the 30 years. Bitch. I posted about this and I think I said 25. Well, one of us can't do math. I was like, wait, am I am I crazy?

[00:17:06] Now I'm now I'm really curious. Wow. OK. I had math. No, I can't be that bad at math, but I don't know where I can see my past 30th anniversary. Mike, we are fucking old. Well, you're old. I'm. Young at heart. I'm old at heart.

[00:17:30] I'm a total curmudgeon. But get off all my lawns. Get off. Get off all my lawns. You live on the eighth floor. I understand. I understand. But, you know, all good things, such a good finale. Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, it was.

[00:17:51] Yeah, it was. It's still my favorite. OK. So my favorite finale. Even more favorite than DS 9's. So I thought DS 9's finale was OK. The thing about DS 9's finale is that it's kind of like a 10 episode finale. And this is true.

[00:18:09] I feel the last episode, if you just looked at in a silo, it's fine. It's it's not it wraps things up. So that's what's it's a little bit unfair to compare it to what you leave behind. If you just look at the episode by itself,

[00:18:28] I definitely think that all good things is stronger because it has a full story. My bad. So I know what it was. It's what you leave behind is 25 years old. On Sunday, it was 25 years old. I see. I see that. That makes more sense. Yes. So sorry.

[00:18:46] Sorry. Wrong. Wrong season finale. My bad. Series finale. Series. Series finale. You're right. You're right. You're right. Yes. But that was so next gen was a few weeks ago. Yes. I feel like it was two weeks ago last week. I think it might have been two weeks, actually.

[00:19:06] Might have been. Yeah, I'm scrolling here trying to find the actual all good things. May 23rd, 1994. OK, so that is 30 years old. There we go. OK, yeah, we should go. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's hard to believe that these shows are 25 and 30 years old.

[00:19:27] I know. It's a long time ago. Yeah, but in more recent news, did you see Star Trek Prodigy is dropping all 20 episodes on July 1st? I know that's actually very soon. And I'm like, holy shit, that's a lot of episodes to watch.

[00:19:42] That is a lot of episodes to watch. I don't you know, we should review it. But how do we do that? Yeah, exactly. How do you review 20 episodes? Maybe we'll do it in fives or. Oh yeah, I was just thinking maybe

[00:19:55] we have five or so chunks or something. Yeah, that'd be a way to do it. Yeah, I mean, whatever we have like weeks and weeks. We have like 10 weeks to review Discovery Season five. And I think we had three episodes.

[00:20:07] So well, I mean, life is busy right now. We have a lot going on vacations and you know, so. Well, you're down with vacations. I am done with vacations. My vacation bank is very low right now. So which is perfect going to this summer. PTO, you mean?

[00:20:24] Yeah, it's a little low. It's on the lower side. I've maxed out my vacation days and I'm no longer recruiting. So yes, this is this to me is a common problem. I mean, it's a common problem for you. No, I know. I understand.

[00:20:40] It is inconceivable to me that you do not take. Vacations, I'm taking some I'm taking a weekend off towards the end of August. OK, but meanwhile, you're not accruing any vacation time. I know, I know it's bad. It's bad. Oh, my God. Don't trust me.

[00:21:00] Well, I mean, if you you wouldn't be stressed out if you took vacation. I know I should really try to take some days. Like have four day weekends for the next month. I mean. Tell people you're just going to work Tuesday through Thursday.

[00:21:16] I mean, you work all the time anyway, so just work. Do you say I'll probably take the PTO and then I'm working anyway. Oh, see, that's even worse. That's then they're getting double for nothing. You know? Yeah. No, I'll see. You know. No, no, no.

[00:21:32] So yeah, so we have prodigy coming out in one big chunk. They just announced that today or yesterday. All 20 episodes. Why can't they do like five a week or something like that? Or I would have taken 10 and 10.

[00:21:48] I would have taken like what they're doing now with all their temples, which is they release half a bit one month and the other half second. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like Bridgerton. Like Bridgerton. Exactly. I love Bridgerton. So we've watched the first episode of the. Oh, you did. OK.

[00:22:08] Yeah. Of season three. Yes, of season. OK. It's it's it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot of drama. It's like a lot of drama and unnecessary foolishness. I mean, it's very like tropey and. Yes, it's you know, it's fine. It's fine. I enjoy it.

[00:22:30] I like it. Yes. It's nothing crazy, but no. Yeah, I just enjoy it. It's so good. Yeah. So today, June 4th, we're recording this on a Tuesday, by the way, is the anniversary of Wrath of Khan. And that is 40. Two years ago. Wow, 42 years ago.

[00:22:54] Wow. That's a lot. I was just born. OK, shut up. That still remains my number one movie, Star Trek movie. But I know. Yeah, I know. And where with a close like a one B being the undiscovered country. Yes, that's why. And you know, that's my favorite.

[00:23:19] That is your favorite. Yes. Yes. So that's 42 years today. Wow. Wow. Crazy. That's crazy. Today? Today, June 4th. 1982. Oh, my God. That's that's. But I think that's all of the news. We have a season and series finale to talk about.

[00:23:45] We do. Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's anything else did I don't remember the last time we spoke, we talked. Do we talk about what does it change your world's rapid production? Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Yes, I'm out. Yeah. They're done.

[00:23:59] And what they're recording season four in 2025 or something. I think early 2025. Yeah, is what they're doing. You know, so, man, I'm going to be alive then. That's a long time away. I mean, that is post-election. So we'll have to see. I know it's like what's going to happen.

[00:24:19] I don't want to think about it. It's coming up, dude. Think in five months. Great. Yes. It's super, super excited about that, but not really at all. No, man. All right. Let's let's talk about something slightly happier, which is the discovery season valley. It's also bittersweet.

[00:24:42] Yes. You know, because I think this season really they did really well with this season. And here we go. You know, just another enterprise. And so, yeah, that's true. You know, get good and then get canceled. That's how Star Trek rolls. So, yeah, but

[00:25:08] let me ask you this first and foremost. Do you think it was a good season finale? Yes, I thought it was a good season finale. OK, yes, I thought I thought it was a good season finale. I thought it was a decent series finale.

[00:25:29] OK, what did what did you think? Yeah, I think it was a good, you know, a really good season finale. I think it wrapped up the storyline nicely. Yeah. And for season finally, I, you know, I do this now.

[00:25:47] I mean, yes, for a series finale, I wanted more. I I wanted just a little bit more, you know. But again, I, you know, I thought that the well, we can. Yeah, we can talk about the like Coda part of it later on.

[00:26:01] But let's just talk. Yeah, so I it could have been better. There could have been more. But I actually was just reading an article and they had like a limited time to do this. The sets weren't struck yet, or at least the bridge that wasn't struck yet.

[00:26:18] And what does that mean? It was a struck yet struck. So when you strike a set, was that mean take it down, you tear apart? Oh, OK. Yes. So they hadn't torn down the bridge site yet. OK, got it. So but they apparently torn down everything else.

[00:26:39] Oh, my God. Yeah. So so, yeah. So. Yeah. Where was I going with that? I don't know. Lost the train. I lost the train. Lost the train. So anyway, yes. So they had only three days of production for the Coda part of it. I got it.

[00:27:01] So anyway, which well, you know, but OK. Thoughts on that? Let's let's leave the Coda and talk about the. Yeah, let's see it towards the end. Yeah, let's talk about the start from the top or something. Yes, let's let's talk about how they wrapped up this

[00:27:23] search for the progenitors. Technology. Yeah, yeah. Create life or recreate life as Ma wanted it to. And we learned differently. Right. Differently. Yeah, I so I live so for our audience, our three listeners, I live texted Mike as I was watching.

[00:27:48] It wasn't like a sensitive it wasn't like a full live tweet, but I was texting him some reactions as I was already watching the episode. I thought that the oh, my God, being several of those comments. Yes, yes, yes.

[00:28:04] I thought that the I don't know, the the pocket space universe slash the portal, whatever. Yeah, the portal. Yeah, sure. We'll call it the portal. I thought that was fantastic. I thought they did a fantastic job with the set design.

[00:28:21] I mean, if you want to call a set, I'm sure like, you know, 90 percent of it's like, you know, like virtual. But it was so well crafted, very is well done. It was imaginative. It was it looked really good.

[00:28:35] It just it looked like they spent good money on it. And the whole way that Burnham was interacting with it and she was like, you know, going into the windows as she calls it or portals. And she was landing in these like outer planets.

[00:28:53] I thought that that was so well realized and so well made. Fantastic is is it was so well done. It was like, I feel it was like one of the best sets they've come up with.

[00:29:05] So that was very worthy and worthy of a kind of like series finale, season finale, and very it was like it was like breathtaking. I was like very, very impressed with it. Then I think the whole like mall thing. Like there was some confusing level mall.

[00:29:23] Mall camp. I was like, mall, mall. Yeah, no, we're not talking about mall people. We're talking about mall mall. Sorry. Yeah, mall. Like it was it was fine. Like she was I thought that there, you know, because as

[00:29:37] I talked about earlier, like I thought she would have more of a redemption arc. Like she she kind of did, but not really. And wasn't like and then it kind of just fizzled. It kind of like she she didn't get her way. She couldn't bring lock back.

[00:29:56] She's kind of sad about it. And then it was over like, oh, it was just over. Like I just thought that that was fine. She and Burnham had a lot of fighting. There was a lot of fisticuffs. There was like too much fighting.

[00:30:13] It was like, oh, my God, I get it. I get it. You're fighting. Yeah, there was a lot of fighting between them. Why fighting? I was and this has been picked up in some other discourse, but I was like, first of all, I don't understand why.

[00:30:29] Why mall was fighting the brain because they were there to listen to her. So I don't know why she was like why she killed one of them. That was a little confusing. And then what was funny, because I noticed it was watching.

[00:30:41] I was like literally like Burnham was like truce, right? And then she attacked. Then Burnham attacked ball and was like we. And then later on, she was like, we don't have to do this. I was like, wait a bit. You literally started this fight.

[00:30:53] Like you literally attacked her when mall actually said, OK, I will work with you. I was like, what is happening? It was just a little confusing, like in terms of the ways like it was like choreographed and not the fight

[00:31:08] choreographed, but like in terms of the way that it was structured narratively. So it was a little confusing. I just thought the mall stuff, it was like whatever. Like it didn't really go anywhere for me. But the whole progeritor thing, I did. And I think, OK.

[00:31:26] The thing about the Tennessee, if if if we want to go backwards. Well, we thought it was very rush, right? We thought it was kind of rush. There was like all this stuff and it was like, you know, yada, yada, yada.

[00:31:37] I thought that they actually spent the right amount of time with this progenitor attack. I thought I didn't feel as rushed. I thought that, you know, like the whole thing where it was, you know, revealed to Burnham and like she had this choice.

[00:31:51] And I thought it was I thought it was good. It did not feel rush. It felt like just the right pace and amount of time spent on it. I was worried about it because, you know, as we know, discovery loves their mystery boxes.

[00:32:04] And I was like, oh, my God, they're not actually revealing what this is until the finale. And we're going to have to like rush through everything again. I thought it was fine. So, yeah, yeah, I would say they did a good job with this.

[00:32:16] They did. You know, I agree with you. The sets were amazing for this part of the story. It was really conceptually well thought out of thought out and also beautifully done. Yeah. And it was like the scale of it was just like

[00:32:31] as it should have been the scale of it, like the design. It was just like, wow. Like, yes. Yep. I love the gravity pieces. You know, that that was interesting. Yeah. You know, as far as mall goes, yeah, I felt

[00:32:46] like. I mean, so once they find the behind the curtain piece of of the progenitor's space or whatever. Which, by the way, that made I didn't really get that because Bernard was like, oh, it's like the space in between. And then she like touched the touch the curtain.

[00:33:04] I was like, wait, I don't I don't really get it. Like the chore. Yeah, I have to. I mean, to be honest, I've only watched this once. And it was like the day before, you know, we have a screener and I watch it the day before the finale.

[00:33:21] Yeah, actually where everyone got to see it. So so that was and that was a while ago. I have not had a chance to rewatch it. So I don't remember all of the little details like that. But but once they get behind there, you know,

[00:33:34] I was not surprised. I think. I'm trying to think, you know, in the past, mall is very much like Dell was in the early early prodigy seasons, where it's kind of annoying and impatient. She never becomes not annoying.

[00:33:53] Yeah, she didn't really become not annoying because she was so impatient and like thought she could do everything by herself. Like, you know, it's just like she, you know, there was no. As far as I'm concerned, there was no redemption art.

[00:34:07] She never showed any signs of being redeemed. You know, she was going to sell the technology to whomever to get herself away to the gamma quadrant or wherever to this dream place that probably does not exist in the 32nd century. It's just a story.

[00:34:27] So, you know, I wasn't too, you know, I actually thought that, you know, mall got what she deserved. Like she rushed through the she wasn't listening. She rushed through the design of the triangles and then got, you know, zapped and like all that and frozen.

[00:34:46] And I thought that that was, you know, and then she was not, you know, knocked out and done, you know, done. Oh, my God. The triangles. We can use circle back from the triangles. Kim, go. No, I like that. I like the puzzle.

[00:34:59] I mean, it made made sense. I mean, you know, but I was very underwhelmed by the triangle puzzle. That's like the IQ test. Because I was. Yeah, this is something I was like live live texting you. I was like, the triangle puzzle is like really janky.

[00:35:15] I was like, it's like if they just look like pieces of plastic and just for the scale, yeah, the scale of like what we're seeing is like this this fucking janky triangle puzzle so we can get off Timo or something like it's just like it just looks stupid.

[00:35:32] I was like and it was an hour of like all the puzzles that they've had to solve up to this point. I was like, OK, like this is like probably the one that you can like most easily understand.

[00:35:44] Like because even I was like, yeah, I was like, it's negative space. I was like, we get it. We get it. Like I was like, what the fuck? Like, but I think I think, you know, 99.9% of people who would have been put in that position

[00:35:56] would have built the triangle just like mall did and make that mistake. And even though they had that, right. But I got it with but Burnham's clue, though, with Burnham's clue, I got it. Oh, you got it. OK.

[00:36:07] I didn't. I mean, once I saw them make the triangle, which seemed really like super obvious to me, I was like, OK, like and then when mall gets frozen or whatever. Well, first of all, I knew she was going to fuck it up.

[00:36:21] I mean, to be. Oh, of course. I mean, that you knew that. But of course. But, you know, I think that 99.9% of people would have fucked that up too, even if they, you know, even they have the clue from Burnham.

[00:36:36] I mean, yeah, but again, think of mall did not listen to Burnham. Mall was on her mall. She's not listening. She's not going to listen to patient. She's oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. She's like a child. She's hotheaded. Yes, she's hotheaded.

[00:36:50] She's just like Dow was in the early first season of that was terrible. Yes, it is. First three episodes. And then he like and then he he he was the most improved by the end. Yes, he was. Yes, absolutely. Yes. Yes. He gets the Starfleet most improved award.

[00:37:08] Most important. Absolutely. So small did not change. More did not grow. No. I you know, I think I may. And partially, I think that that's where maybe they went wrong with the character, especially because they tied in books whole like redemption.

[00:37:25] Like, I was you know, it went nowhere. That that was definitely like she's my only family. Yada yada yada. Yeah. Did not go anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I was like that's why I was so insistent that she was going to have redemption because I was like, yeah,

[00:37:40] like she spoke family like yada yada. So then it just they are not doing that. And then it's just being dumb. Yeah, I mean, but you know, in and yeah, fizzled for sure. And, you know, but the other thing, too, is some people just can't be

[00:37:56] aren't going to be redeemed. So sure, you know, there is that, you know, piece of it. And she she's just one of those characters that just isn't redeemed. Yeah. So but now she might get recruited into the section 31 or so.

[00:38:10] Oh, yeah. She's going to go work for Kovac. So, you know, that's fine. Um, yeah. So I was disappointed. I can't if I felt bad that, um, I can't think of his name, all I can think of is

[00:38:25] his last name of the actor who plays it to fix this. What was his mall and lock lock lock? I was kind of sad to hear that lock was actually dead. And if they brought him back, he wouldn't be like he would be a husk of

[00:38:41] of who I was, which sort of makes sense, too. But I was kind of bummed about that. I, you know, his his contra wasn't stored somewhere. Yes. Oh, after his body was brought back. Yeah, he needed like he needed like his contra to be like, you know.

[00:38:56] Yes. Transferred into Dr. McCoy and yes. Yeah. And then the cold and that would have been that would have been interesting. Transfer is consciousness into Dr. Culber and he could have had two beings running around in his head.

[00:39:11] But yeah, so, you know, so the puzzle I thought was a good puzzle because I think most people would have failed that and therefore they wouldn't have gotten the progenitors technology. So, um, yeah. So the fact that Burnham figured that out, I, you know, I know you're

[00:39:32] giving them, I know it's great on an audio podcast. You are giving me thumbs down on thumbs down, thumbs down. Yeah. All right. Well, anyway, we Burnham gets to meet does the puzzle correctly, gets to meet the progenitor

[00:39:48] who's in there and gets offered the job of being the new progenitor. So I really wanted was her face to come back, the one who also plays the female changeling. I don't know her name. Salome, apparently. Yes, Salome, thank you. But she's like 90.

[00:40:05] I was like, oh, shit, never mind. Oh, is she? Well, I mean, what you leave behind is she was a young back then. It wasn't young back then. And now she's not young. So she's got young. She's so old, older. She she played the progenitor and they were.

[00:40:25] Yes. Oh, wow. OK. Yeah. Um, like. But so I enjoy that piece. I enjoy the decision that, you know, the the level of decision in what Burnham would have to sacrifice in order like the offer was being made to Burnham and Burnham alone, not to anyone else.

[00:40:51] Well, of course, our Lauren Savior Michael Burnham, of course. Of course, it had to be her decision. Um, and, you know, ultimately, I think she made a good decision. Yeah. Well, that was to be expected.

[00:41:05] I I I I I knew it was going to be, oh, yeah, no one can have this. It's too much for any one power or any one person. Yeah. No. It went to rockhole forever and ever. Yeah. Which they did. So, you know, yeah. Meanwhile. All right.

[00:41:22] So anything else about that whole piece? Because obviously she has to get out of there and time has passed differently, which I think they could have demonstrated slightly better. Like, yeah, that wasn't like done super well, but it was fine.

[00:41:36] It wasn't like an interstellar situation where it's like, oh, my God, it's been like a year or something. Yeah. No, not like that. I was I was kind of hoping that like she would jump like come out of the thing or whatever.

[00:41:48] But obviously it couldn't from a story point of view, like being her board during like a battle when they were under attack from things, but I felt like they could have somehow demonstrated that time moves slower in there.

[00:42:01] But meanwhile, the story outside is still going on and moving forward. So so yes. So Rainer was amazing. Like I am sad that we don't get more time with him. He grew on me. Yeah. Like I know you were kind of more slow,

[00:42:17] but I think by the midway through the season, I was like, oh, I really like him. And then last episode where he took the captain's chair, I remember. Oh, yeah. So he was like pacing and he had this whole thing with Tilly.

[00:42:31] Where still is like, you're making everyone nervous. Like you and they just turned down basically. I will analyze him. And then we are like, I like you, the bitch. Well, yeah, and then she just had this look on her face. She was really amused.

[00:42:46] I was like, oh, my God. Oh, yeah. She wasn't intimidated at all. No, she was like amused by his reaction. Yes. Yes, I love her. Yes. And good banter. And you can like feel it's like literal like they're bouncing off each other. It feels like so real.

[00:43:03] And literally when he does sit down in captain's chair, it's like, oh, now now it's serious, you know, like, yeah, so good. It was. I agree. So good. And now I'm sad because, yeah, I feel Rainer was amazing addition to the cast.

[00:43:18] Like he really did somehow win the hearts and minds of, I think, the audience and the in the crew. And now and now it's over. It is. I I'm hopeful. Although not, you know, they haven't announced any more cast other than Holly Hunter.

[00:43:38] But I'm getting legacy like that. I mean, maybe they'll show up in like you would like Starfleet Academy. Oh, yeah, I think you'd be a great grumpy professor at Starfleet Academy. Every every every Academy. Oh, yeah, we didn't talk about that.

[00:43:51] And then you call it Hunter was cast of Starfleet Academy. I thought we talked about that last time. Oh, no, we did not talk about the last time because it only happened like two weeks ago. Oh, OK. Yeah. Apparently they wrote the role for her and. Yeah.

[00:44:08] Now I feel like I don't know. I don't know how they wrote the role for Holly Hunter, but. Yeah, it's like, fuck like my Holly. I have my. Yeah, like where did Holly Hunter? Has she been in anything recently that like we would have seen? No. But anyway,

[00:44:25] so they have a chance to own a captain for Starfleet Academy, but I'm really waiting on like the announcement like. I'm waiting. When are they going to tell us that Mary Wiseman is going to be in Starfleet Academy? I don't know.

[00:44:39] And so anyway, I would love to see Rainer there as a grumpy old professor who's like, you know, and him and Tilly have these moments where he's like she can tell him to stop being an asshole to this student. And, you know, and I know it'd be amazing.

[00:44:55] I want to see more of him. Yeah, I want to see more of them because I think that you're right. That that banter when she smiled at him, I was like, you don't scare her anymore. I know, but that was great. No, I know. I love it.

[00:45:10] I love it when Tilly gets to that reaches that point where she's self-confident. I missed we desperately missed self-confident Tilly last season, and it was great to see her back. Yeah. Oh, so yes, I'm waiting for the announcement of Mary Wiseman to.

[00:45:33] Yeah, why is it still a secret? OK, so the only thing, OK, not to like derail us, but so do we so are we confident that Starfleet Academy basically takes place right after Discovery or because I was, you know, the the Koda such epilogue

[00:45:50] trip me up, I was like, oh, now we're like decades ahead of where we ended. Oh, yeah, yeah. So it's still kind of technically could be a 32nd century. Like, are we like later on in the 32nd century? Like, I don't know.

[00:46:06] I think because because they have such a great cast in Discovery and they'll I think they'll guest star in different episodes. Yeah, I think it's going to be right after Discovery. That was the only thing that struck me up. The epilogue. I was like, oh, shit.

[00:46:20] Now we're like maybe 40 years ahead. You know, like, oh, yeah, they were good number years. I mean, they were old and they had a son. I mean, Lito was probably like late 30s or 80s. Max, I mean. Oh, no, he was much younger than that. He's probably captain.

[00:46:38] Yeah, but captain's like 29, 30, 30, you know, early 30s, early 30s. I feel that's rare, though. Whatever. Maybe. But also, you know, the other thing is like black don't crack. So sometimes it's hard to tell. Yeah, that's true. We don't we don't know.

[00:46:54] And also people at that point, like they might age very slowly, like in comparison to that's true. Yeah. Yeah. You almost didn't see those memes like being 30 back in the 80s versus being 30 now. Oh, yeah. No, no. It's like so different.

[00:47:07] Yes. They don't do it for 30, though they do it for like 40s and 50s. And like, yes, it's no, but even 30 back then felt old. Oh, yeah. Anyway, so yes, back to the actual discovery. Yes. And Rainer and Tilly great. The the idea that I mean,

[00:47:30] I mean, I love how they threw this in, but who knew that discovery could separate like that and do some wild crazy. Did he ever mention that? That they never know. Never, never, never, never. So that's some crazy shit. And then but so the two two spinning pieces

[00:47:49] around the brain ship and this other brain ship. There was a scout that was attacking Saru and what's her name? I can't think of her name right now. I can see her, but none, none. Gets into position and then they spin the dial and.

[00:48:10] Only the space in between the two pieces of discovery goes wherever they sent them. There was a lot of time to babble. There was involved. It was and and yeah, because I thought because the way they positioned it, I thought that the discovery would also jump with them.

[00:48:27] But then, you know, it was just, you know, and then I thought they would jump back or something. Yes. Yeah, I thought that. Yeah, but but yeah, I guess it was just a space in between, which wasn't clear to me. No, when they were talking about it.

[00:48:40] So but again, I've only watched it once. So maybe and maybe it maybe it's when I have closed captioning on, it'll be clear. I have closed captioning on. It's still a little confusing. OK, you know, they like they rattle off so quickly, too.

[00:48:57] So yeah, it wasn't very clear to me. But yeah, that was that was cool. I mean, the whole I thought the brain stuff also kind of fizzled a little bit, but it was fine. I mean, it was so the dreadnought that yeah, after basically.

[00:49:14] Mall was gone from it. We don't get their perspective anymore. So they're kind of just like this, like unseen enemy. Yeah, they're fighters. It was fine. They kind of blow them up like, OK, that was that was nice.

[00:49:26] The British were kind of working together to kind of, you know, problem solve that. Problem solving. Yeah. I mean, discovery is really good when people are when they're problem solving. Like it just shows like teamwork and they bounce each other.

[00:49:41] You know, one takes an idea and runs with it and then they pass it to the next person and the next person. Next person. So I really like how they figure themselves out of the box like that. I think it's really, really good.

[00:49:54] Figure, you know, figure out a problem together. So that's that's I also like the band, like the level of banter when that happens. Reminds me of like West Wing and Sports Center and or sports center. Sports night. Sorry, sports night. Oh, sports. Also, what sports night?

[00:50:13] It was a I was when they started watching ESPN. No, no, no. Sports Night is a is a ESPN comic, like not a ESPN comedy series. It's like a. What you imagine a parody is it? It's like a comedy set. The setting is a sports sports show.

[00:50:33] And yes, it's also written by Aaron Sorkin, who's a brilliant, brilliant writer. Yes, it was one of my favorite, favorite shows growing up or whenever it aired, I forget. But but that snappy dialogue when they're going back and forth, I thought that was really good, too.

[00:50:53] You know, still missing our original bridge crew. You and I talk about very noticeably absent. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really kind of bummed about that, but nothing we can do. And we have the new ones. Well, I don't mind, but I don't know them. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:51:13] No, yeah, the the new ones were were good, but they just weren't the original ones. They weren't. Although Lieutenant Christopher has been around a while, he's been around for a couple of seasons now. So but these guys all came on board new like halfway through the season.

[00:51:32] I know our third of the way through this season. Yeah. Debra and I was kind of still driving the ISS enterprise back to space. I mean, probably yes, but yeah. So so all right. So we get rid of the brain that takes care of that.

[00:51:51] Saru love the room, love the scenes with Saru. Yes, Saru had some all of the scenes with Saru. Yeah, yes. Some really good material. Yeah, yeah, you did. It was yes. I think if, you know, if I had a favorite outside of Culber and Stamets,

[00:52:12] it is most definitely Sarah. The three, you know, those are my that's my jam for discovery. But yeah, I know that the whole scene with him negotiating with to haul the haul. Yeah, yeah. And non was just like, well, bitch, you know how to negotiate. Yeah, right.

[00:52:33] Yeah, I thought that he yeah, he did a really, really good job. I mean, Chuck Jones and Saru, I think both did a really good job with that whole with the scene. That's great. Yeah, it was. Yeah, I really enjoyed that.

[00:52:46] And then we have Berne Book and Culber on the shuttle trying to get retrieve. Yeah. So this yeah, I OK, I guess that's one thing we talk about. So Culber's arc. I was like, I didn't see it leading here

[00:53:05] and it didn't really make that much sense to me, but I was like, it's it's fine. Like he had this whole like existential spiritual crisis and then right. Yeah, you know, it's just like, oh, got to get on the shuttle. Oh, the the subspace harmonic frequency or whatever.

[00:53:20] Yada yada yada. Yeah. Yeah. OK, I guess. Like it all led to this. I was like, it's fine, you know? And then meanwhile, Stamets, we don't even even have anything to say about Stamets. I feel Stamets had nothing to do this season.

[00:53:36] Like he he he kind of got he got up. He kind of got like like that way part. Like I really didn't feel he had much to do. Like he was like he had his crisis at the beginning season. He's like, what's my life about now?

[00:53:49] Like, where's it going? Like, oh, project really cool. Oh, my God, this is really interesting. Want well, you know, I just feel it didn't really go anywhere. Yeah. You didn't have really much to work with. Yeah.

[00:54:02] I mean, you know, you kind of see him more in the fatherly role with. The father figure role with. Why can't I think of that? Adira. Thank you, Adira. And, you know, and also with Hugh when Hugh decides to go and do this,

[00:54:20] he was like being the very fatherly role. But yeah, we kind of well, so yeah. And you have this really brief scene with Stamets and Adira where Adira says, you know, what have you learned?

[00:54:35] And, you know, and Adira is now this wise soul, which I think you and I talked a little bit about, like she's always or no, I heard this on another podcast. She's always been she has they sorry, they have a symbiont in them. They are a wise soul.

[00:54:54] Like it just. Right. And so like this confidence that they struggled with on the bridge and whatnot, I just didn't feel like, you know, someone else mentioned it. So I'm sort of riding on someone else's coattails with us.

[00:55:10] But I thought, you know, it's you can you could have. Then the wiser one all along. Yeah, that's one thing that I guess that's interesting, because after I'll be honest, after they revealed that Adira had a host

[00:55:27] and then they had the whole thing where they had to like. They get rid of her kind of face all the great. Yeah, I don't feel it's really come up again, like that she has all the secret knowledge that they have.

[00:55:43] Yeah, yeah, that they have a secret knowledge. I just don't. Yeah, I don't. I don't feel they really they really ever tap back into that, like ever. No, and they could have just explained it away by saying because you're human,

[00:55:57] you don't get all of that stuff, but they never did that either. So, no, the right answer. That's definitely a loss of opportunity with I think a bit of loss of opportunity with Adira a bit.

[00:56:09] You know, like, I don't think they had much to give down as the season. Yeah, he didn't really have a fully like fully realized plot or story arc. Well, they didn't really know what to do with it.

[00:56:22] And I think it's hard, you know, it's hard because, you know, part of some of the stuff that I'm struggling with is this idea of legacy now. And yes, you can talk about this for like a couple of years. Yes. Thanks.

[00:56:37] See, I've been talking about it with no resolution for a couple of years. So there might be there might never be one. Yeah, that's true. I mean, there may never be. But but I don't think yeah, you bring it.

[00:56:50] They bring it bring it up and then they kind of ignore it. And they although I guess they sort of touched on it when Burnham and Rainer were traveling through time. Samus did have a big role in that. He did. Yes, he yes.

[00:57:06] He had something to do in that one episode. So which I guess was maybe it was just to show how far it's come. Yeah, anything? Yeah, I think in a way, yeah. But I think that sums up all of the parts.

[00:57:24] I mean, Book was just out there hanging out, waiting for waiting with his new buddy, Culber, waiting to rescue Michael. Yeah, I feel they had some good chemistry interactions this season. Yeah. Yep. Book and Culber, if anything, I feel that Book has replaced

[00:57:45] Stavitz like in in like, you know, Culber's life. Like he's the one that that Culber kind of bounces ideas off of and talks to. Yeah. Yeah. And spends time with. So yeah, I don't know. But I feel like, you know, this is where some characters like Rainer,

[00:58:04] they were like, yeah, like, you know, there's so much potential with this character. And we talked about this at the beginning of the season. We were like, oh, you know, there's no new character. Cool. But, you know, what does that mean for all the other characters?

[00:58:16] And we saw the impact. You know, I think that other character did other characters to get waylaid because of that. Yeah. You have the Rainer is a very interesting character. The actor's great. And they gave him a lot of material, but that that comes

[00:58:29] at the sacrifice of, you know, other storylines. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's kind of too bad. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I think fans across the board have been asking for is more about our bridge crew and now we never really got that.

[00:58:47] Yeah. So well, we've got to sit in the captain's chair like twice a season at least. So yeah, he had his moment. Yes. As well as should. I mean, he has been on the show since the beginning. I know crazy.

[00:59:02] So he's really the other than the main cast for secondary cast. He is really the only one who. Was there all five seasons? What did Linus join? Linus didn't come onto the bridge until, like, I don't know, like season three. Really? But apparently he was around if you.

[00:59:22] Yeah. Flashback literally. He was well, he was he was definitely around because remember he was in the elevator. No, that's what I'm saying. He was a. Oh, no, no, no, no. He was in season two. He was in two. He sneezed on the. Oh, you're right.

[00:59:40] Yes. On Pikes. Yes. He engineer or whatever he was. Science officer or whatever the heck he was. But then in the time and wine episode, apparently he's been there since the very, very beginning. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So. So, yeah. So everything also. If I. Oh, no, no, no.

[01:00:02] This is we're talking about Linus. It's if you watch the ready room for the finale, they interview the actor. I can't I apologize. I can't remember his name, but he talks a little bit about how diverse this cast is and how growing up it sounds like he's gay.

[01:00:21] So he is gay. Growing up, he didn't have these examples and how great it is to be a part of a Star Trek or a world where there are examples of this. David Paul Tomlinson, I want to say. Tomlinson. Yeah, yes. Tomlinson. Correct.

[01:00:38] So that was really cool to hear. I did not know he was gay and but it was great that, you know, to recognize the fact that we haven't had these gay character or this diversity in previous Star Trek's. So, yeah, definitely one of the legacies of.

[01:00:57] Discovery is that. So, yeah. So shall we move on to the wedding? I think we've covered the. Well, before the wedding, because we were the wedding. But Gerard tech goes away. Oh, and then Michael has. Oh, yes. He has a chat. She has a chat.

[01:01:18] Yes, chat in the non affinity room. Yeah. With not in the affinity room with a. COVID. Yes, yes. And I was like, OK, where is this going? Because there has there were there was chatter leading up to this. And it's like, who is he? Oh, who's who's COVID?

[01:01:40] I think we've always asked that since we met him in the beginning of season three. I was whatever this guy like I was really quite that curious. But I was like I was screaming. How did you react? I loved it. I was I loved it.

[01:01:56] I thought it was great. I was like, did he just say Daniels? The only thing I have I take umbrage with is that he was from the. Enterprise, not the U.S. The U.S. enterprise is incorrect. He was he was from the enterprise.

[01:02:12] But I was like unless he unless he served on the USS Enterprise J that he brought to the future with Archer. I don't know if he served on that ship or not. But anyway, it's served on that ship. But I was like, holy shit.

[01:02:27] Yeah, it actually kind of actually kind of makes sense. Yeah, it totally makes sense. I was like, holy, holy, holy fucking shit. I was very I was actually very surprised and delighted. I was super delighted by that. I thought that was great. Yeah, that was that was great.

[01:02:46] That was a nice little Easter egg. And then in the room with Easter eggs. I know that the room was a little silly. I was like, what is what is Jordy's visor batter? Like, you know, um, I'm like, OK, maybe the baseball. Like, you know, Cisco's a profit.

[01:03:03] That's a big deal. I guess the visors little random. Picard has always had, you know, like, you know, like a lot of intersections of time and like things revolving up the card. So maybe Chateau Picard. Sure. The visor was a little bit like random.

[01:03:19] I don't know. Obviously it was all fan service, whatever. Yeah, I was totally fan service, but I thought it was great. Yeah. Yeah. And I rewatch. I will pay more close attention to what was in there. See if there's anything else I recognize.

[01:03:34] Yeah. Daniels is definitely not on my single card at all. No, that was a great surprise. Yeah, that was that was that was brilliant. And I feel like it fits. It fits perfectly. Yeah, it's mysterious. You know, he has to kind of stay under the radar

[01:03:51] because of the whole time. I want to say time more, but it's whatever the whatever they call it. I'm a cold war. Thank you. Temporal Cold War. Yeah. So, yeah, that was nice. And then then we go to the wedding. Then we get the wedding, which was

[01:04:09] pretty fabulous. I think I wanted more time there. I want more time. It was very fast. Oh, they're kissing already. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It would have been nice to spend a little more time there, but the costumes like, holy crap, those costumes were amazing.

[01:04:27] I mean, those they went. They went above and beyond for those cost. No, I feel they spent a lot of money on this finale. It was just like everything was top notch. Hey, you got to zero out the budget at the end of the year.

[01:04:42] Yeah, that was it was really well. It was really well executed. Yeah, I know the the costumes were good. It was a lot of gold. It was very gaudy, but that's fine. And honestly, the you know, we got to spend some moments with the crew.

[01:05:00] That was kind of nice. But the scene that I thought was actually I was taken aback by I even I was kind of moved by the scene between Michael and book like on the beach. I thought that it was actually really well done.

[01:05:18] And it could have been I told you I was. Yes, you did tell me about this. I really thought that that could have been the finale. That could have been like the final scene. Like I feel they added more content to the wedding

[01:05:33] and we got to spend more time with the cast. Maybe the cast is talking about the future, you know, because sometimes weddings kind of, you know, you were wedding recently. You think about the future, you know? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[01:05:45] And that could have been a great way to, you know, to new beginnings, to endings and beginnings, right? Like that could have been a great way to really like end things if they actually invest, if they went back and we shot more scenes

[01:05:57] of the wedding. That was amazing. I think it would have been so good. And then sunset, you know? Yeah, no, that yeah. But what did you think about other than it's fabulous? What did you think about the whole wedding scene?

[01:06:09] I wanted more like more like little scenes between the people there, like the cast and the you know, I think that would have been a nice time to do more vignettes about what the cast was doing.

[01:06:23] And, you know, it's sort of like Burnham hits a few of them and then goes outside. Right. And so I definitely think, yeah, I would have wanted more time there for sure. Again, I think it's, you know, it's just one of the things that Discovery never did.

[01:06:42] They never invested more time. Despite fans constantly calling for more time with these other characters. For years now, I think it's just it would have been nice to have some of that, some of that. And then, you know, I agree.

[01:07:03] I like the book in Burnham scene and that that that probably was the season finale right there. Like, oh, yeah, no, that was that was the season finale, which makes sense. But even you know, even after all that payoff all season long,

[01:07:19] it still would have been nice to have. Everyone like just more more of a party atmosphere like. Yes. Now, I think I think it would have been I, you know. I think that would have been more effective for me than the hugging that Burnham experiences through, like,

[01:07:41] you know, time on the bridge at the end at the end of the the coda. So, yeah. So then we go into the coda, which is I thought at first I was like, where are we? What are we doing here? Right. What's happening? What's happening?

[01:07:59] Who is this? Where am I? I mean, I should have I should have known right away who it was. But I was like, who is this? Like, what are we you know, what are we doing here? Well, I kind of because you were purposely not,

[01:08:11] you know, not showing their faces, right. And you can kind of see the reflections. Yes. Michael's getting from bed. And I knew I was like I knew that it was the future. Like I was like, it's like because she was even moving slowly and like an older person.

[01:08:27] Yeah, yeah. That's you know. But I don't think on the first go around, I think I was just like kind of I was jolted from you're so confused. I was confused. I was like I was like the person waking up, you know,

[01:08:39] like I was just confused. Where am I? When am I happening here? So, yeah. But yeah, we get a really nice just I don't know. I mean, I think it was a nice coda for book in Burnham.

[01:08:55] I really think it was like a nice to see them at the towards the later part of their lives. Clearly, they did a great job with the makeup. They looked different. They look, you know, looked older, more mature. Yeah. And then you meet Lido.

[01:09:14] And I thought that was really great. And the conversation that Lido and Burnham had in the shuttle on the way there. And so then they pull into Starfleet headquarters. And they have the name drop the title of the episode, Life itself.

[01:09:32] Oh, is that when they did? I couldn't remember. That's when Michael does that, because she's like it's a conversation between her and Lido, because I think Lido was like any words of advice or something like that. And then I think Michael is

[01:09:49] Michael says something along the lines of like, you know, like like you cruise your family, like, you know, but you cruise your family. Like, you know, you're you're finding purpose, but sometimes it's all like life itself is purpose enough for something like that. Oh, very, very OK.

[01:10:04] I remember that's what that's what it kind of blows down to like. Yeah. Like life itself is kind of worth living for and fighting for. I think I think it's like in that. Some of the yeah. No. Yeah. That sounds familiar to me now. Yeah.

[01:10:15] So, you know, obviously it's great. Obviously, it's a feature. We see that Starfleet headquarters has expanded. It's like there are like three of those things. I was hoping it would be like a little more different. It was like, OK, it's just like there's more of them.

[01:10:32] And I don't know. That's fine. And then as they're pulling into the dock and see the discovery, I knew I knew exactly what what was happening. Like I was actually a little confused. I was like, what? No, no, I knew exactly where they were going.

[01:10:46] Knowing that this was the coda. I knew that, you know, I had said all along, I said all season long, especially when since we knew that it was the final season, I was like, are they going to tie it back to Calypso? And they did.

[01:11:00] And so when I saw them pulling in and I could, you know, I saw them erasing the A and then I looked closer and I saw the bars in between the the south, the no, the saucer section. You know, they used to have support supporting beams. Oh, OK.

[01:11:21] Did you see the nacelles were connected? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think they're yeah, everything was being worked on in it. I was like, OK, yeah. And then when she got on there and she said it's another red director

[01:11:32] of talking to Zora, I was like, makes sense. Like all that makes sense to me. I thought it was actually a really, really good wrap up to that. So I liked how that tied in. I know you were less impressed with it because we talked about it.

[01:11:48] But I, you know, in the interviews that I saw after this had come out, they were like they really did want to tie it back to like not leave that Chad hanging or whatever. And so, yeah, it was totally fine.

[01:12:04] And I think Burnham bringing the ship to that place totally made sense. So, yeah, I thought that was a nice coda. And to see the discovery coming through and all the shuttles and all the ships lined up as a honor, honor guard as it did that,

[01:12:23] I thought that was a really nice touch, too. So, yeah, you know, I, you know, I, I liked it. Again, the scene where she's like hugging everyone on the bridge. I totally get it. Like that cast, that particular cast had not been together most of the season

[01:12:42] because they had Owo and Dettmer there. And I don't know if Paulson was there or not, but who? The Ariam, not Ariam person. I can't remember. Oh, what's her face? I know. Yeah. But yeah, I thought it was a nice coda.

[01:13:08] Again, I just wish we had done more with I think if they had done more with the wedding scene with our characters and like it was known that people were going off and doing different things aside from Tilly going back to the Academy, which so here, you know,

[01:13:22] after that, after that was released, like the next day was when they should have said or let us know whether Mary Wiseman was going to is going to be on Star Fleet Academy or not. Like, I think that that. Yeah. Yeah. So. You know, so there's that.

[01:13:43] Yeah. Yeah. But I thought, you know, I thought that hugging scene was, you know, basically all they could do. I just read the article that said that everything had there were no sets left except for the bridge set. So they had to do it.

[01:13:56] Shockly, like took everything down that fast. Goodness. I guess it was within eight weeks. You know, they had to go back and do the reshoots within a. And yeah, so. I did not like it. I did not know. Yeah, I did not like the epilogue.

[01:14:15] I thought the book and Burnham stuff was fine. I thought I had to do this. I thought that they already kind of had their moment on the beach. So I didn't really need it was nice. It wasn't I wasn't like, oh, my God, get me out of here.

[01:14:28] But, you know, I didn't think it was necessary. The. And I say like the one thing about it being necessary, not I think it was necessary to show a black family. Like you've never seen that complete family picture in.

[01:14:52] Star Trek, like a mom and a dad and a son, like you never we've never really seen that. So I don't know if I need that. I know. But you know, it was one of those things where it was. What is that? What am I hearing?

[01:15:06] What do you say, dog? No, this is Dennis going home. Green dog. Oh, OK. OK. So what is that? If that's sure, that's fine. I think it's more, you know, I I did not. I'm definitely not. I'm definitely one of those people where I actually

[01:15:28] did you rewatch club? So no, I have not watched. I rewatch club. So so it's it's a nice short. It's 18 minutes. It tells a nice story. Yeah. Like you're you know, it's it's nice. You know, it's it's fine. It's like someone sometimes delightful. And OK. All right.

[01:15:51] Did I need the did I need the entire series? The last scene of the series finale to tie into club. So I did not need that. I, you know, I did not. I and I think that this is where my main thing is like it does

[01:16:06] the rest of a cast of disservice. Like I, you know, because I didn't think the hugging scene was that effective. Like Wilson Cruz can be there. So they had this like terrible in. Oh, yeah. It was so I was like, I was like, if you squint really hard,

[01:16:25] it is like you can. It is like maybe looks like Wilson Cruz, but that's not at all. It wasn't. It doesn't. Yeah, it was a stand in and then they like superimposed them. Right. They cut to like, yeah. Yeah. Just like I don't know.

[01:16:40] They have a previous shot scene or like whatever. But yeah, yeah. OK. Yeah. Like it was so obvious. Yeah, it was. And it was just. Yeah, I just didn't. I don't know if I needed like this like whole like quota to have, you know,

[01:16:58] I don't care enough about Calypso. I don't know why, because Michelle Paradise was like, I had to tie back in. I was like, I don't know, girl. Like you really had to pay it back into Calypso. Like probably five percent of fans care. Like whatever.

[01:17:13] Yeah. Like if we didn't. But I told you, I'd rather have. Yeah. They reinvested the funds to shoot more scenes for the wedding. That was more, I think, more payoff, like a more of a character payoff. Yeah, sure. Sure.

[01:17:26] Or larger crew versus like the scene where they flew them all to Toronto to just hug each other. Like what? Like, I kind of just like whatever. That was just like it was just kind of silly to me. Yeah, I'm just like, no, I'm not.

[01:17:40] I'm not. I'm not like a Calypso diehard. Sorry. Like, no, that's OK. You know, most people wouldn't know, know that anyway. And most people would not know. And it was just like they didn't even have like short tracks outside the United States or something.

[01:17:54] Like this is a problem. Like not like not all international can do. You watch short tracks. So I mean, Alex said he wanted to do this. He wanted to tie it back in. He wanted he said their intention all along was to tie that back in somehow.

[01:18:10] Well, you read the interview with Michelle Paradise, right? Because she was like if they were the season six season six would have been tying you back into Calypso. Oh, OK. OK. But that would been like a full season versus like 15 minutes.

[01:18:28] Like, you know, just like to like it just like opened up so many more questions for me as well. It's like, OK, but why did they have to like revert back to like, you know, the old discovery?

[01:18:39] Like only the only reason why they had to do that was because Calypso was shot before they did the the the fitting, like, you know, before they went to the third century, like they upgraded the discovery.

[01:18:51] Like you had to like it's basically have to like to like red con and like go back and like and like fit. It was it felt very like round round peg in a square hole kind of situation. Like we had to like fit it back in, you know?

[01:19:07] So it was just like that, you know, like that all kind of just like did not did not resonate for me. And I've been hearing a lot of big theories, fan theories like, oh, like, perhaps it's going to say the Federation, like, you know,

[01:19:18] like he's like he plays this critical role and like, oh, they had to like downgrade discovery because like if they're if it's going to be like listing in space somewhere, it needs to look like an old ship. And because you don't want people pillaging it or whatever.

[01:19:32] I like there's all these theories. I was like, yeah, but the only series is trying to fit into like this like narrative that they had to draw up in order to fit it into something they set up in 2018. Like it was just like, you know, I don't know.

[01:19:45] It was just like for me, it just didn't resonate. It was just like it didn't work. I mean, yeah, it doesn't have to resonate with everyone. So yeah. But it's what we got. It's what we got. Yes. And we have to take over again, because at this point,

[01:20:08] at this point, yeah, that's it. Yeah, there's more. There's no more. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, anything else about the the finale? No, no, I don't have anything. I think, you know, I think we covered it pretty thoroughly. So, yeah. Is Dennis distracting you? What's happening?

[01:20:39] Yeah, no, it's fine. That's fine. All right. Well, there we go. There's our review of the discovery season slash series finale, series finale. And we may do a discovery retrospective. We're we're it's in discussion. It's in this shit. OK. Yeah.

[01:21:04] I mean, at this point, we'll probably by the time we do it, Roger will come out. So yeah, it's kind of like so. Yeah, we have to figure it. Yeah, we have to figure that out too. But I'll be around this summer because no vacations.

[01:21:17] So no vacation days left. Well, yeah, I would give you some of mine. Yes, I wish you could. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. All right. All right. Well. Well, Mike, do you want to talk a bit about our sponsor? Sure.

[01:21:37] Faye and Sets is the premier sponsor of Deep State's Pride and the Trekkeaks podcast network. And I'm checking out the latest pins from fansets. And we have a few. There's a moopsy pin now. Does everybody remember Moopsy? Oh, yeah, I heard there's a moopsy plush now.

[01:22:01] Oh, is there? Makes sense. There is a Star Trek Discovery universe of Star Trek Michael Burnham pin. There is an official moopsy plush. Oh, stay calm. Stay calm. Stay calm. If anybody wants to send Johnson one or if everybody wants to send Johnson one. Oh, my God.

[01:22:26] We I will be happily to give you his address so you can all send him moopsy plushies. That would be hilarious. There is a Tom Paris pin and there's also a yellow uniformed Mariner pin as well as many, many others, including more Voyage Home,

[01:22:46] so Trek for pins and yeah, lots of lots of pins. So head on over to fansets, check out all the pins, put a bunch in your basket. And if you spend more than thirty dollars, we're going to get free shipping in the US.

[01:23:02] And if you use the code Trek Geeks, all caps, you will get 10 percent off your order. And we want to thank fansets for being the sponsor of the Trek Geeks podcast network and Deep Space Pride. Thanks, fansets. All right. Well, you can also reach us on email

[01:23:22] and social, our socials rather. We are on Twitter, Slash X and Instagram at the space pride. And you can also email us at the space pride at Gmail dot com. And we would love to hear from you.

[01:23:40] Yeah, let us know what you thought of the the finale and yeah, and if you think we should try to do a retrospective of all five seasons of Discovery. Oh, my God, discovery came out 2017. Yeah, like it's been so long. It has it is that it has.

[01:24:05] It's responsible for everything that we're watching right now. It's responsible. It's responsible for Picard. It's responsible for Strange New Worlds. It's responsible for Lower Decks and Prodigy, and it's responsible for obviously Starfleet Academy and Section 31 and Section 31. So yeah, yeah, it is. So, you know, we need.

[01:24:29] Yeah, we might talk a little bit about that, but I think our memory is kind of vague on the early years of Discovery. Yeah, it's been a minute. It's been a minute. Well, so we started reviewing what did we start reviewing season three?

[01:24:45] Season three, I think you mean like back in like when we started in 2020, 2021. Yeah, I mean, oh, man, I don't. Yeah, I know that will make sense. I don't think we ever talked about season one or season two of Discovery. So no, I don't think so.

[01:25:01] But it's been 100 plus episodes. So it's been a long road. From there to here. Exactly. All right. Well, my time is finally near. Well, this is a great discussion. Yeah. Will will you miss Discovery, Mike? I will miss some of the characters.

[01:25:25] Yeah, I will miss our first gay couple. I will miss our very diverse cast. I will. I've been missing, you know, our bridge crew, our original bridge crew. Yeah, I think I will miss Tilly. I will miss I miss Tilly a lot already.

[01:25:45] I mean, we we loved having her back this season, so hopefully fingers crossed. Mary Wiseman will be signed on to Starfleet Academy. That would seem to be the logical choice. It seems like it. Yeah. But I guess you never know until they announce it.

[01:26:02] Yeah, they are supposed to start filming this summer, I think. So yeah. Yeah. Are you I think I already know the answer to this. But you got to miss. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm more like, you know, I don't think I'm going to miss Discovery that much.

[01:26:22] But I think maybe to your point, there are certain elements of discovery I'm going to miss. Like, I don't ever think, you know, like I'm trying to think back on some of the other, you know, other Star Trek series that, you know, we've obviously seen end.

[01:26:41] And I think Next Generation, the Space Nine and even a bit of Voyager. That's a Voyager. But I mean, I've stuck with Voyager for a long time. The whole time. And there was like a there was a sense of like you're leaving home,

[01:26:57] you know, it's like the characters in a ship become kind of home for you. Yeah. Enterprise, I never really felt that I never kind of had that emotional attachment to Enterprise. Discovery. I don't think I have that either, you know, like I don't think I would ever

[01:27:17] I never really and obviously Discovery came at a very different time. And now this would fit into the retrospective really. But Discovery never became like home for me. Like it just never felt like home, like some of the other crews did and, you know,

[01:27:32] some of the other ships did or stations did. And but that being said, there's still yeah, there's still like to I think to your point, like certain characters that I'm like kind of sad to leave behind. And there's kind of the the journey that's not going to continue,

[01:27:52] you know, in that being with them. So there is a little bit of that. But yeah, I'm not I don't think I'm going to miss Discovery as a whole that much. But, you know, there are certain characters where I would love to spend more time with.

[01:28:05] But, you know, all things, all good things must come to an end. So so there you go. Yes, there we go. All right. Well, we will be back soon with another episode. Maybe maybe disco retrospective or even a prodigy preview. I don't know. Or both or both. Yeah.

[01:28:30] All right. Make some plans for the summer and podcasting plans for the summer. And yeah. All right. Well, thanks, everybody, for listening. Bye, everyone. Bye. Bye.